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False imprisonment is a felony in GA. Under GA self-defense laws there are three circumstances identified in which self-defense is not authorized. Surely this deep into the conversation you have troubled yourself with reading the applicable GA self defense laws right?
So how is that different from what Zimmerman did? Zimmerman NEVER attempted to apprehend anyone! In direct contrast to McMichaels. Zimmerman only followed at a distance, until Martin ambushed him from hiding. Zimmerman was never an aggressor. Again in contrast to McMichaels. Exactly why Zimmerman successfully plead self defense. While McMichaels and his Dad and buddy were properly convicted.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?
Okay, let's assume the jury got it right, and Travis (with all lawful intention - after all, his intention was to detain a thief for the police, a commendable act) violated some technicality of false imprisonment law. At the point of Arbery's attack upon him, in his effort to wrest his shotgun from his grasp, what was Travis's legal obligation, assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge? Back off!!!
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
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Campfire Sage
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No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?
Okay, let's assume the jury got it right, and Travis (with all lawful intention - after all, his intention was to detain a thief for the police, a commendable act) violated some technicality of false imprisonment law. At the point of Arbery's attack upon him, in his effort to wrest his shotgun from his grasp, what was Travis's legal obligation, assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge? If we assume the jury got it right, nothing else matters, does it. I understand why you wish to evade the question as asked.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Smokepole you lost your credibility. LOL, I didn't know I had any, but thanks.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?
Okay, let's assume the jury got it right, and Travis (with all lawful intention - after all, his intention was to detain a thief for the police, a commendable act) violated some technicality of false imprisonment law. At the point of Arbery's attack upon him, in his effort to wrest his shotgun from his grasp, what was Travis's legal obligation, assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge? Back off!!! So, hand him the shotgun he is in the midst of struggling to wrest from his hands? Really?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?
Okay, let's assume the jury got it right, and Travis (with all lawful intention - after all, his intention was to detain a thief for the police, a commendable act) violated some technicality of false imprisonment law. At the point of Arbery's attack upon him, in his effort to wrest his shotgun from his grasp, what was Travis's legal obligation, assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge? If we assume the jury got it right, nothing else matters, does it. I understand why you wish to evade the question as asked. I answered the question, you just didn't see the answer, what with your blinders on. If the jury got it right, then Travis gave up his right to self-defense by illegally detaining Arberry. So anything bad that happened after that was his fault, including shooting Arbery, himself, or a bystander. So his "legal obligation" with respect to what he did from that time forward is a moot point, doesn't matter, and is 100% irrelevant.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?
Okay, let's assume the jury got it right, and Travis (with all lawful intention - after all, his intention was to detain a thief for the police, a commendable act) violated some technicality of false imprisonment law. At the point of Arbery's attack upon him, in his effort to wrest his shotgun from his grasp, what was Travis's legal obligation, assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge? Back off!!! So, hand him the shotgun he is in the midst of struggling to wrest from his hands? Really? You asked the question with a caveat... '...assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge?...' The ONLY way that can happen is if noone dies!!! Don't pull the trigger!!! So YOU answer the question! How does he do that!?!?!?
Last edited by Muffin; 11/25/21.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
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I have to go spatchcock a Turkey..............
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Anyone know which felonies Arbery was convicted of? Anyone got a link to a source?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Deep down, you guys know that the verdict constituted an injustice. Three people with the best of civic-minded intentions are being sent to prison for it. That's really what it comes down to. These three are a living sacrifice to the gods of wokeness. Our society is much poorer because of this verdict, and the consequences will be that folks will be even more reluctant to get involved in the face of crime.
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I think conviction was the correct verdict, but Arbery was clearly a violent criminal and thief based on his record. It's quite likely the defendants were correct that he was looking to commit a crime, but they didn't see him committing one, and therefore couldn't justify trying to detain him.
The reality is in murder cases the character of the victim is not a justification. It is still murder to kill a scumbag.
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Not a false choice. At some point in the interaction, that choice forced itself upon Travis. Assuming Travis didn't wish to be charged with murder also, what was his legal obligation at that point? If you cannot answer the question, the reasoning behind your general argument is fatally flawed.
Again, It was "Travis" and his mob who put Arbery in a fight or flight scenario. With ZERO legal justification. Arbery was run to the point of exhaustion, the option of flight was gone. All that was left was fight. Arbery WAS legally justified in that fight. McMichaels was not. McMichaels and his mob each made conscious decisions to put themself in that position. The entire incident was instigated by the third guy in the back with the video camera. Thus he bears legal responsibility for McMichaels actions. The jury got it right.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Anyone know which felonies Arbery was convicted of? Anyone got a link to a source? He had convictions for carrying a gun at a school (which included fleeing arrest) and later stealing a TV. The TV might have been a misdemeanor. He was also videoed trespassing in an under construction house multiple times, but oddly no evidence emerged that he stole anything.
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There's not going to be a consensus :
HAPPY THANKSGIVING EVERYONE !!!!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Deep down, you guys know that the verdict constituted an injustice. Three people with the best of civic-minded intentions are being sent to prison for it. That's really what it comes down to. These three are a living sacrifice to the gods of wokeness. Our society is much poorer because of this verdict, and the consequences will be that folks will be even more reluctant to get involved in the face of crime. I think their intentions were good, they didn't mean to kill him, and I wish he hadn't tried to grab the gun and the cops had showed up to sort it out. But if you're gonna chase somebody down with a shotgun and attempt to detain them, you need to educate yourself on your state laws. And also, how to do it without bad things happening, like killing the guy when you don't mean to. If you're not going to do those things, you have no business doing what they did. MontanaMarine had one of the best observations on that; they went about it all wrong. They didn't have to put themselves in the position they put themselves in.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Campfire Ranger
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His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in.
Could the same argument have been used for George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse? No, because in either case, Zimmerman and Rittenhouse were never the aggressor. They each were attacked on the street and acted purely in self defense. McMichaels did the attacking in Georgia.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Anyone know which felonies Arbery was convicted of? Anyone got a link to a source? He had convictions for carrying a gun at a school (which included fleeing arrest) and later stealing a TV. The TV might have been a misdemeanor. He was also videoed trespassing in an under construction house multiple times, but oddly no evidence emerged that he stole anything. What's your source for that information?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in.
Could the same argument have been used for George Zimmerman and Kyle Rittenhouse? No, because in either case, Zimmerman and Rittenhouse were never the aggressor. Isn't it a matter of perspective whether Zimmerman was the aggressor? Couldn't "poor" Trayvon have perceived that he was being cut off from his path by a pursuing Zimmerman?
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Smokepole you got your credibility back lol
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Smokepole you got your credibility back lol Well, as long as we all agree (LOL) Happy Thanksgiving Dakota!
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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