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Joined: Nov 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
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Those guys fricked up. They are also being sacrificed to the gods of wokeness. Had the exact situation occurred with a methy white guy, they would be home today. But it happened in an election year in a crucial state and it was necessary to drum everything up.
They were technically wrong. But I think justice would have been a plea to manslaughter and some time in the pen. They had no records, were good citizens, were trying, if misguidedly, to do what they perceived as right. This country was founded upon the idea of civic minded men picking up guns and protecting lives and property. If we’re going to get out of this mess we’re in now, a lot of them are going to have to do it again.
Those men did not set out to kill a black guy or anyone else. [bleep] spiraled, mainly based on the actions of the victim. Maybe he was justified. Maybe he was frightened. But there isn’t a soul in America with more than a room temperature IQ who actually believes Arberry would have come to any harm had he simply stopped and said, “What do you want?”
The deal with young black men is that they will fight. Some of them only know how to fight, nothing else. A confrontation with one is likely to escalate. They don’t follow the same rules of confrontations you grew up with. When it escalates, you are very likely to very quickly be in a fight for your life. In today’s climate, you had better be right. None of that matters one bit. Those dipshits had no legal right to stop Arbery, period. Their illegal (and stupid) actions caused the entire situation. End of story. Enjoy the schithole that Oregon is. I can see by your post that you well and truly deserve it. Lol, can't defend your argument about the case so have to deflect. Typical. No, I absolutely made the argument and you rejected it. Hell, I even said that they were wrong. You came back with your snarky ass. So, just enjoy the schithole that Oregon as become and continue to let cops let Antifa run wild in your streets. Meanwhile, in America we’re doing our best to keep that from happening. Antifa isn't running wild in the streets where I live, but nice deflection.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Those guys fricked up. They are also being sacrificed to the gods of wokeness. Had the exact situation occurred with a methy white guy, they would be home today. But it happened in an election year in a crucial state and it was necessary to drum everything up.
They were technically wrong. But I think justice would have been a plea to manslaughter and some time in the pen. They had no records, were good citizens, were trying, if misguidedly, to do what they perceived as right. This country was founded upon the idea of civic minded men picking up guns and protecting lives and property. If we’re going to get out of this mess we’re in now, a lot of them are going to have to do it again.
Those men did not set out to kill a black guy or anyone else. [bleep] spiraled, mainly based on the actions of the victim. Maybe he was justified. Maybe he was frightened. But there isn’t a soul in America with more than a room temperature IQ who actually believes Arberry would have come to any harm had he simply stopped and said, “What do you want?”
The deal with young black men is that they will fight. Some of them only know how to fight, nothing else. A confrontation with one is likely to escalate. They don’t follow the same rules of confrontations you grew up with. When it escalates, you are very likely to very quickly be in a fight for your life. In today’s climate, you had better be right. None of that matters one bit. Those dipshits had no legal right to stop Arbery, period. Their illegal (and stupid) actions caused the entire situation. End of story. Enjoy the schithole that Oregon is. I can see by your post that you well and truly deserve it. Lol, can't defend your argument about the case so have to deflect. Typical. No, I absolutely made the argument and you rejected it. Hell, I even said that they were wrong. You came back with your snarky ass. So, just enjoy the schithole that Oregon as become and continue to let cops let Antifa run wild in your streets. Meanwhile, in America we’re doing our best to keep that from happening. Antifa isn't running wild in the streets where I live, but nice deflection. You live in Oregon and if they want to they will. Just call the cops and wait on them to come out and take care of the problem.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,850
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,850 |
If he's not able to use lethal force to prevent it, that only leaves him the choice of handing Arbery the shotgun, i.e., handing a shotgun to someone fitting the description of a local felon? Setting aside the lunacy of handing a shotgun to a suspected felon in the midst of a confrontation with him, is it even legal to arm a suspected felon in Georgia?
No, you are leaving out the third choice. Don't put yourself in that situation in the first place. At the point we're discussing, that's already history. Now take it from there. At that point you are already a felon. At that point, I suppose you have put yourself in the situation where you can be carried by six or judged by twelve. Live, die, kill him, you are guilty of more grievous crimes than the guy you are trying to apprehend. If you choose to make those choices, don't go to the public crying and looking for sympathy. Live with the choices you made and hope the Bubbas in prison do not quickly mete out to you the same justice you meted out on the street.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483 |
To be simple, again. Ahmaud Arbery was the only person that night in that place who was entitled by Georgia law to use deadly force. So, when Arbery attacked Travis McMichaels in an attempt to snatch his shotgun, what was Travis McMichael's legal obligation, assuming he wished to avoid being charged with murder? Please be specific. That's a false choice. His legal obligation was to not attempt to detain Arberry at gunpoint in the first place. Not a false choice. At some point in the interaction, that choice forced itself upon Travis. Assuming Travis didn't wish to be charged with murder also, what was his legal obligation at that point? If you cannot answer the question, the reasoning behind your general argument is fatally flawed. I'll tell you what his choice wasn't under GA law. Using deadly force in self defense. He relinquished that right when he committed the felony act of false imprisonment. The moral of this story is don't commit felonies if you want to use deadly force in self defense. See how easy that is?
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483 |
No, it's not. His legal obligation was to not put himself in the position he put himself in. You do understand that, right?
Okay, let's assume the jury got it right, and Travis (with all lawful intention - after all, his intention was to detain a thief for the police, a commendable act) violated some technicality of false imprisonment law. At the point of Arbery's attack upon him, in his effort to wrest his shotgun from his grasp, what was Travis's legal obligation, assuming he wished not to compound his technical violation of the law (unbeknownst to him) with a murder charge? If we assume the jury got it right, nothing else matters, does it. Well, it does appear to be a good time and place to remind people to read their state's self-defense laws.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,454
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,454 |
Those guys fricked up. They are also being sacrificed to the gods of wokeness. Had the exact situation occurred with a methy white guy, they would be home today. But it happened in an election year in a crucial state and it was necessary to drum everything up.
They were technically wrong. But I think justice would have been a plea to manslaughter and some time in the pen. They had no records, were good citizens, were trying, if misguidedly, to do what they perceived as right. This country was founded upon the idea of civic minded men picking up guns and protecting lives and property. If we’re going to get out of this mess we’re in now, a lot of them are going to have to do it again.
Those men did not set out to kill a black guy or anyone else. [bleep] spiraled, mainly based on the actions of the victim. Maybe he was justified. Maybe he was frightened. But there isn’t a soul in America with more than a room temperature IQ who actually believes Arberry would have come to any harm had he simply stopped and said, “What do you want?”
The deal with young black men is that they will fight. Some of them only know how to fight, nothing else. A confrontation with one is likely to escalate. They don’t follow the same rules of confrontations you grew up with. When it escalates, you are very likely to very quickly be in a fight for your life. In today’s climate, you had better be right. None of that matters one bit. Those dipshits had no legal right to stop Arbery, period. Their illegal (and stupid) actions caused the entire situation. End of story. Enjoy the schithole that Oregon is. I can see by your post that you well and truly deserve it. Lol, can't defend your argument about the case so have to deflect. Typical. No, I absolutely made the argument and you rejected it. Hell, I even said that they were wrong. You came back with your snarky ass. So, just enjoy the schithole that Oregon as become and continue to let cops let Antifa run wild in your streets. Meanwhile, in America we’re doing our best to keep that from happening. Antifa isn't running wild in the streets where I live, but nice deflection. You live in Oregon and if they want to they will. Just call the cops and wait on them to come out and take care of the problem. Lol, you're one ignorant dumbfugg. What state do you live in?
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Joined: Jun 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
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Our society is much poorer because of this verdict, and the consequences will be that folks will be even more reluctant to get involved in the face of crime. I disagree. But guaranteed, if people are paying attention, they won't make the same mistakes that these guys made.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,530
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,530 |
None of that matters one bit. Those dipshits had no legal right to stop Arbery, period. Their illegal (and stupid) actions caused the entire situation. End of story.
It matters if you don't want your community to turn into Portland. Exactly.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483 |
Deep down, you guys know that the verdict constituted an injustice. Uh, no. The law was carried out justly. You sound EXACTLY like the political left following the Rittenhouse verdict.
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,454
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 18,454 |
None of that matters one bit. Those dipshits had no legal right to stop Arbery, period. Their illegal (and stupid) actions caused the entire situation. End of story.
It matters if you don't want your community to turn into Portland. Exactly. Wonder what's on the menu for those dudes today? Cock with a side of cock?
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,530
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,530 |
If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"
Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483 |
If he's not able to use lethal force to prevent it, that only leaves him the choice of handing Arbery the shotgun, i.e., handing a shotgun to someone fitting the description of a local felon? Setting aside the lunacy of handing a shotgun to a suspected felon in the midst of a confrontation with him, is it even legal to arm a suspected felon in Georgia?
No, you are leaving out the third choice. Don't put yourself in that situation in the first place. At the point we're discussing, that's already history. Now take it from there. Retreat. When you retreat, you are no longer an imminent thread of death or serious bodily injury to the other party, so they can't legally use deadly force against you. If that's not an acceptable option for you, then boo hoo. You shouldn't have committed a felony that put you in that situation.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,172 |
If you carry a firearm, open or concealed, at any time, regardless of what you happen to be doing at that moment.....
You better have a plan to deal with someone attempting to take it away from you.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,850
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,850 |
If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"
Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case. There you go repeating things which have been shown to be untrue. Maybe you should tell us your definition of "at gunpoint" so we can compare it to the dictionary definitions I cut and pasted earlier. Then we can compare it to what was seen in the video of Arbery's death. Facts and truth DO matter.
People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,530
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,530 |
If he's not able to use lethal force to prevent it, that only leaves him the choice of handing Arbery the shotgun, i.e., handing a shotgun to someone fitting the description of a local felon? Setting aside the lunacy of handing a shotgun to a suspected felon in the midst of a confrontation with him, is it even legal to arm a suspected felon in Georgia? No, you are leaving out the third choice. Don't put yourself in that situation in the first place. At the point we're discussing, that's already history. Now take it from there. Retreat. At the point we're discussing, two people have a firm grasp of the shotgun. The only way for Travis to retreat would have been to let it go. Is that your suggestion for him?
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,020
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,020 |
If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"
Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case. OK, if someone not a cop, who didn't observe you committing a crime, with a shotgun, tried to detain you would you consider that a violation of your rights?
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,483 |
If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"
Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case. Yes they did. Just like you can't be bothered with reading the laws you are arguing, you can't be bothered with reading the various definitions of held at gunpoint. Someone even posted them for you earlier.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,172
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,172 |
The ONLY definition that matters is Georgia law. And how the court interprets it.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,530
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,530 |
If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"
Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case. OK, if someone not a cop, who didn't observe you committing a crime, with a shotgun, tried to detain you would you consider that a violation of your rights? In that case we have a conflict of interests (both parties feel they've been wronged), assuming I'm innocent while the fellow questioning me wants me to wait for the police. Best move in that case would be to wait for the police.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,172
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,172 |
If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"
Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case. OK, if someone not a cop, who didn't observe you committing a crime, with a shotgun, tried to detain you would you consider that a violation of your rights? I'd wait for the LE, and try to survive another day on the planet. Civil action to follow. If it gets pointed at me, I'm gonna go animal.
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