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Funny how the black kid didn't have any choice. All on the other guys and yes they were wrong. But if they did commit à crime before the shooting that automatically makes them guilty. Is that like them not allowing Arbrys past criminal record to be heard.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by copperking81

If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"

Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case.


OK, if someone not a cop, who didn't observe you committing a crime, with a shotgun, tried to detain you would you consider that a violation of your rights?

In that case we have a conflict of interests (both parties feel they've been wronged), assuming I'm innocent while the fellow questioning me wants me to wait for the police. Best move in that case would be to wait for the police.


Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

I understand why you wish to evade the question as asked.



I didn't ask what you would do in that situation, or what you think the "best move" would be. I asked if you would consider that a violation of your rights.



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Doesn't matter you don't take bare hands to à gun fight.

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Originally Posted by smokepole

"I can understand why you would avoid answering the question." I didn't ask what you would do in that situation, I asked if you would consider that a violation of your rights.

I answered it. Assuming Arbery was innocent (which is a stretch), both parties would feel they had been wronged. Best course of action would be to wait for the police.

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The kid fought them when a reasonable man would have stopped and said, “What the f-u-c-k do you crackers want?” They were not correct in their assumptions before instigating the interaction, therefore, they are responsible for what happened after.

That said, in a more normal case, they would have gotten a plea deal for manslaughter or something like that and THAT would have been much closer to justice than what they received. These guys are going to get sentenced like hardened criminals, killers, when they really were just a bunch of dumbfricks. In fact, probably only one of them was actually really stupid. He is the one who got out of the truck and did the shooting. The others were kind of along for the ride.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole

"I can understand why you would avoid answering the question." I didn't ask what you would do in that situation, I asked if you would consider that a violation of your rights.

I answered it. Assuming Arbery was innocent (which is a stretch), both parties would feel they had been wronged. Best course of action would be to wait for the police.



LOL, the question was whether YOU would consider it a violation of YOUR rights.

If you can't answer the question, just say so.



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Originally Posted by Bwana_1
I'm not sure I understand the arguing of a court case that has been settled, other than the punishment yet to be handed out ?

The jury gave it's verdict, judge will set sentencing...why all 3 went into trial together will be a lingering question of stupidity.


I haven't followed the case well enough to know, but they may have filed a motion to try separately and been denied. There is no right to separate trial.


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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole

"I can understand why you would avoid answering the question." I didn't ask what you would do in that situation, I asked if you would consider that a violation of your rights.

I answered it. Assuming Arbery was innocent (which is a stretch), both parties would feel they had been wronged. Best course of action would be to wait for the police.



LOL, the question was whether YOU would consider it a violation of YOUR rights.

If you can't answer the question, just say so.

Of course, as I said above. Both parties. In your hypothetical, that would include me as one of the parties. A smart person in Arbery's shoes would realize (again, assuming he's innocent, which is a stretch) that there was a mistake, and would wait for the police rather than essentially committing suicide by grabbing for the shotgun.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by copperking81

If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"

Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case.



Not sure why that quote is attributed to me. I didn't write that.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole

"I can understand why you would avoid answering the question." I didn't ask what you would do in that situation, I asked if you would consider that a violation of your rights.

I answered it. Assuming Arbery was innocent (which is a stretch), both parties would feel they had been wronged. Best course of action would be to wait for the police.



LOL, the question was whether YOU would consider it a violation of YOUR rights.

If you can't answer the question, just say so.

Of course, as I said above. Both parties. In your hypothetical, that would include me as one of the parties.


I didn't ask if you would "feel you had been wronged." I don't even know what that means.

But if you're agreeing that someone detaining you in that situation is a violation of your rights, then it would be a violation or Arbery's rights too, would you agree?



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Originally Posted by copperking81
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by copperking81

If someone with only the best intentions, who hadn't observed you committing a crime tried to detain you at gunpoint, would you consider that a violation of your rights, or a "legal technicality?"

Cops do that routinely, but no one had anyone at gunpoint in the Arbery case.



Not sure why that quote is attributed to me. I didn't write that.

Sorry.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

In that case we have a conflict of interests (both parties feel they've been wronged), assuming I'm innocent while the fellow questioning me wants me to wait for the police. Best move in that case would be to wait for the police.

You really expect us to believe, had you been in Arbery's shoes with armed men pursuing you and one jumping out of the truck armed with a shotgun, attempting to detain you.

That you would believe these criminals, yes criminals, they are actually engaged in felonious behavior at the moment.

Why would you believe the Police had even been summoned?

Why would you believe these criminals had any intention of you surviving this encounter? Often times criminals kill the witness.

For God's sake. You have told us that you are so paranoid of being attacked, that you keep a pistol plastic wrapped in the shower.

Now you tell us that a right minded individual would not attempt to defend himself when apprehended on street by three crazy crackers.

When would you have drawn your CCW and started shooting at the McMichaels? Arbery had no CCW. What choice did he have other than attempt to disarm what he thought was his would be killer?


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Anybody got a good recommendation for a shower pistol? Sometimes I take baths so it has to work when submerged.



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Originally Posted by smokepole

But if you're agreeing that someone detaining you in that situation is a violation of your rights, then it would be a violation or Arbery's rights too, would you agree?

Objectively, it's not a violation of my rights (despite being innocent, and feeling wronged), because we have to make allowance for mistakes when folks are trying in good conscience to deal with crime, and not escalate all such situations to the point of death, since the police were on the way, at which point (assuming I'm innocent, a stretch in the case of Arbery) I can make my case to them, or a judge, or a jury.

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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye

In that case we have a conflict of interests (both parties feel they've been wronged), assuming I'm innocent while the fellow questioning me wants me to wait for the police. Best move in that case would be to wait for the police.

You really expect us to believe, had you been in Arbery's shoes with armed men pursuing you and one jumping out of the truck armed with a shotgun, attempting to detain you.

That you would believe these criminals, yes criminals, they are actually engaged in felonious behavior at the moment.

Why would you believe the Police had even been summoned?

Why would you believe these criminals had any intention of you surviving this encounter? Often times criminals kill the witness.

For God's sake. You have told us that you are so paranoid of being attacked, that you keep a pistol plastic wrapped in the shower.

Now you tell us that a right minded individual would not attempt to defend himself when apprehended on street by three crazy crackers.

When would you have drawn your CCW and started shooting at the McMichaels? Arbery had no CCW. What choice did he have other than attempt to disarm what he thought was his would be killer?


Look, that’s just bullschit. Don’t pour it on too thick. That kid was there up to no good and he was running because he knew he was up to no good. And no, I’m not excusing the actions of the idiots but this guy was not thinking that these people were criminals intent on murdering him. He got caught fricking around in a house where he shouldn’t have been and he was trying to get away.

That’s what happened.

And hey, maybe he wasn’t up to any serious no good. Maybe he just got caught someplace where he shouldn’t have been.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole

But if you're agreeing that someone detaining you in that situation is a violation of your rights, then it would be a violation or Arbery's rights too, would you agree?

Objectively, it's not a violation of my rights (despite being innocent, and feeling wronged), because we have to make allowance for mistakes when folks are trying in good conscience to deal with crime, and not escalate all such situations to the point of death, since the police were on the way, at which point (assuming you're innocent) I can make my case to them, or a judge, or a jury.

Then why do you carry a CCW if it is easier and safer to capitulate to the demands of any who might accost you on your hikes?


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole

But if you're agreeing that someone detaining you in that situation is a violation of your rights, then it would be a violation or Arbery's rights too, would you agree?

Objectively, it's not a violation of my rights (despite being innocent, and feeling wronged), because we have to make allowance for mistakes when folks are trying in good conscience to deal with crime, and not escalate all such situations to the point of death, since the police were on the way, at which point (assuming you're innocent) I can make my case to them, or a judge, or a jury.
Then why do you carry a CCW if it is easier and safer to capitulate to the demands of any who might accost you on your hikes?
My gun only gets used if my life is wrongly and imminently threatened. That's not what happened here vis a vis Arbery (although it is what happened here vis a vis Travis). Don't pretend to be stupid. These folks were asking someone to wait for the police because they had good reason to believe he was a burglar. He chose to run, and then to fight for the shotgun so that, presumably, he could shoot them.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by smokepole

But if you're agreeing that someone detaining you in that situation is a violation of your rights, then it would be a violation or Arbery's rights too, would you agree?

Objectively, it's not a violation of my rights (despite being innocent, and feeling wronged), because we have to make allowance for mistakes when folks are trying in good conscience to deal with crime, and not escalate all such situations to the point of death, since the police were on the way, at which point (assuming I'm innocent, a stretch in the case of Arbery) I can make my case to them, or a judge, or a jury.


You use the words feel, feeling and feelings often in your musings. You'd do very well to dump that word from your self-defense lexicon. If it's used anywhere in any state law, I am not familiar with it. "Belief" does appear in the language of self-defense law. It's used rather than the word feel for a reason.

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Feel and believe are synonyms in the sense that I used them.

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Originally Posted by JoeBob
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter


Why would you believe the Police had even been summoned?

Why would you believe these criminals had any intention of you surviving this encounter? Often times criminals kill the witness.

For God's sake. You have told us that you are so paranoid of being attacked, that you keep a pistol plastic wrapped in the shower.

Now you tell us that a right minded individual would not attempt to defend himself when apprehended on street by three crazy crackers.

When would you have drawn your CCW and started shooting at the McMichaels? Arbery had no CCW. What choice did he have other than attempt to disarm what he thought was his would be killer?


Look, that’s just bullschit. Don’t pour it on too thick. That kid was there up to no good and he was running because he knew he was up to no good. And no, I’m not excusing the actions of the idiots but this guy was not thinking that these people were criminals intent on murdering him. He got caught fricking around in a house where he shouldn’t have been and he was trying to get away.

That’s what happened.

Really? Arbery knew he had committed no crime that day, except possibly a nuisance tresspass.

He knew he had no evidence of any crime on his person. He had ZERO reason to fear any interaction with the Police.

Do you think that maybe he believed a bunch of men displaying weapons chasing him in motor vehicles screaming that they were going to kill him might just carry out that threat.

You are really certain that the thought of the Klan trading their horses for pickup trucks never entered his mind.

Do you really believe Arbery had never heard of a black man being pursued, beaten, and killed by white men for no good reason.


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