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Suppressed 223 Blue Dot load ??? #16651817 11/24/21
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Youngest son wanted to try some Blue Dot loads in his .223 Vanguard. After a bit of study, we decided on trying the following. 55 gr Hornady SP over 14 gr of Blue. Loads shoot very well and were very consistent across the chrony. ave. 2811 fps. Velocity was just a bit lower than we expected after reading other peoples results but all other results say, good load. All of the shooting was done without having the suppresser on the rifle. Few days latter he screws the can on and proceeds to shoot a bit. A very small bit, seems that with the can on the rifle these loads will not eject. After a shot he has too push the fired case out with a cleaning rod. (basically just the weight of the rod and the lightest pressure) Primers look good, case looks good structurally, but has a bit of soot on each neck. Funny thing is with the can off, it shoots these loads perfectly and ejects fine and no soot neck. This led to a test of a few other test shots with factory loads and more traditional powders. They all eject fine with and without the can. One last detail, with the Blue Dot loads after firing the bolt lifts and moves rearward easy as normal, it just does not bring the fired case along with it. Is the extraction that weak on a Vanguard?? Many thanks.

BP-B2

Re: Suppressed 223 Blue Dot load ??? [Re: Downstream] #16652488 11/24/21
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keith Offline
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My work with 55's is around 2650, I fear that your load maybe too hot.

I shoot 12g blue dot with the 40's at 3000 for ground squirrels and bob cats

14.3g is a safe max load with the 40g at 3200 with 14.6g an ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM LOAD FOR MY custom 14 twist zero freebore rifle.

Re: Suppressed 223 Blue Dot load ??? [Re: Downstream] #16653304 11/24/21
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keith, thank you, I was hoping to also try some 40 or 45 grainers but he had a bunch of 55s he was wanting to shoot up first. I suppose I will pull bullets on 10 of them and try again with 13 even and see what happens with that. I got my info for the 14 grain load here on the fire from a post by Sea Fire back in Nov 9, 2015 at that time he gave loads tested in HIS RIFLE for 55 grain FMJ ranging from 4 grains up thru 14 grains and each loads velocity. His 14 grain load was giving 2915 fps thru his rifle right at 100 fps more than what we are getting. Hence I initially thought with my lower vel. I would surely be in the safe zone. It shows all signs of a nice mid=level load, until the can is installed. I have never loaded for anything sporting a can before this time and wonder how it effects pressure and velocity. I will for now treat it as if it is to hot and see where that leads. Thanks again.

Re: Suppressed 223 Blue Dot load ??? [Re: Downstream] #16653410 11/24/21
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keith Offline
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Issues with Blue Dot:

Not temp insensitive

Very high pressure load

Thick cup primers are best

pressure spikes abound from small changes in powder charge, if throwing charges, and temp change....BEWARE!

I have shot untold thousands of rounds with blue dot in a 221 FB and 223 with 40g and 50g bullets, ground squirrels in N. CA and N. Nevada years ago. You do not want to push the red line on pressure with blue dot, back off.

I have no idea what the heck is going on with a can, don't own any of them.

Best wishes

Re: Suppressed 223 Blue Dot load ??? [Re: Downstream] #16653498 11/24/21
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Seafire Offline
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I envision the problem with the can on the barrel, is you are increasing pressure just ENOUGH, and it is back pressure toward the action, to swell the case just enough, to not extract.

If you are using IMR BLUE, it is different than Blue Dot. Close but each has different load data, especially near max.

If you are using Blue Dot, and a 55 grain Hornady SP, MAX Load is 13.5 grains. 14 grains is starting to tread in the danger zone.

I'd back the charge with the can back to 13 grains... if the problem persists, I'd back it down to 12.5.. MV will be around 2600 fps or so.

It should be just fine...

another solution for that , is drop your bullet weight back to either 50 grains of the various 52 or 53 grain bullets...

max load at 13.5, and if the problem still persists, drop back to 13 grains.


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Re: Suppressed 223 Blue Dot load ??? [Re: Downstream] #16655262 11/25/21
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Seafire, thank you for joining in. I also am rather sure that in this case, the trouble lies in the can. Tried the load in another rifle this morning with no can, and it showed no bad signs. I am becoming more convinced that with the somewhat flakey nature of the Blue Dot we have found that "edge of screw up" with the 14 grain load in a suppressed rifle. We are indeed using Alliant Blue Dot and will go ahead and make some 13 grain loads today while turkey is cooking. I have been shooting Blue Dot for over 30 years but only in .357 and .44mag. I have always been of the "lets error to caution" school of thought and and am much thankful for the responses of you and kieth. Will post results of 13 grain test later this evening.. Also on a high note, older brother mtcurman had mercy on us and gave the go ahead to use some of his stock of CFE 223 if needed. Happy Thanksgiving
y

Re: Suppressed 223 Blue Dot load ??? [Re: Downstream] #16657902 11/26/21
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bmoney Offline
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I played with Bluedot and 223 in my Ruger American ranch. From what I remember I really liked the 11-12.0 zone with a 40grn Vmax. Kinda a 22 Hornet clone and it shot really well and was easy on the ears with that short 16" barrel.


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