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Depends on the fund raising, so that tells me yes Land Tawny gets money, enough for me. BHA has had years to try and solve this why now not that I'm against public land access at all.
Untill theres a wholesale change to the leadership and who they support and issues like management of wolves and GB I will not contribute a penny.

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Case in point, if BHA is all about sportsmen what about the issue in Colorado dumping wolves there, far as i know they have been totally silent. If there truly for sportsmen they would publicly come out against it but that would go against there big money liberal base.
Any body who has seen what this so called wolf reintroduction has done knows what Colorado is in for.
You can't just pick and choose your either part of the problem or solution.

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Originally Posted by 805
Originally Posted by UncleAlps
Very typical Wyoming access lockout. Not sure what the case law is but generally the private landowners can block access at these section corners. At least that's what we've all been taught by G&F.


This is a very grey area when talking to WY game wardens. WY Game wardens can’t cite for criminal trespassing but can cite you for trespassing on private with the intent to hunt. Meaning if you knowingly/unknowingly crossed private to get to public to hunt the warden can cite you. If you legally crossed the corner they can’t. Hence the reason the county DA is the one who was called 15 times by the landowner and he called and had a deputy dispatched to write the charges on the hunters.



I dont think there is a legal cross at the corner. The long understanded defination of property lines is that they extend upward into the air, later revised to be limited to the height of the lowest flights in the area. If the corner is the intersection of two lines , meaning it is infintesimally small, and the property lines go up into the air, there is not a way to cross at a corner where you do not break the property line. I think all public land should have access, and I think corner crossing should be legal, the landowner is not being harmed in the slightest, but by those definitions and understandings, and no law in place to make corner crossing legal, it seems that they will be fighting an uphill battle.

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Originally Posted by urbaneruralite
Having exclusive use is the same as ownership. Ownership cones with a tax bill everywhere else. Open up or pay tax.


The surface lessee pays to lease the space, anyone can access the land if they have permission from any one of the adjacent landowners.

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Originally Posted by Ranch13
Well yes and no. The problem comes in the large tracts of checker board land where there may or may not be survey marks, and due to the lower quality of grazing lands large tracts sometimes as large as a town ship are unfenced. The biggest problem comes from usually because each section isn't fenced, the water and best wildlife habitat is on the private land, and not every one carries a GPS to know that fat deer they just shot was several hundred yards on to the private lands. Or the trail roads they're on actually meander back and forth from the public to private.
It's a mess, and conflicts can and do arise. Sometimes inadvertently and sometimes on wilful purpose.

I am not sure how anyone would venture out hunting in these parts with out a GPS on the prairie. counting cattle guards and watching fences that ain't even close is a great way to trespass even if you ain't.

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Originally Posted by wyoming260
Originally Posted by Ranch13
Well yes and no. The problem comes in the large tracts of checker board land where there may or may not be survey marks, and due to the lower quality of grazing lands large tracts sometimes as large as a town ship are unfenced. The biggest problem comes from usually because each section isn't fenced, the water and best wildlife habitat is on the private land, and not every one carries a GPS to know that fat deer they just shot was several hundred yards on to the private lands. Or the trail roads they're on actually meander back and forth from the public to private.
It's a mess, and conflicts can and do arise. Sometimes inadvertently and sometimes on wilful purpose.

I am not sure how anyone would venture out hunting in these parts with out a GPS on the prairie. counting cattle guards and watching fences that ain't even close is a great way to trespass even if you ain't.


Some folks grew up reading maps and compasses, some have electronics but don't turn them on.
It happens..


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Originally Posted by Oakster
Originally Posted by 805
Originally Posted by UncleAlps
Very typical Wyoming access lockout. Not sure what the case law is but generally the private landowners can block access at these section corners. At least that's what we've all been taught by G&F.


This is a very grey area when talking to WY game wardens. WY Game wardens can’t cite for criminal trespassing but can cite you for trespassing on private with the intent to hunt. Meaning if you knowingly/unknowingly crossed private to get to public to hunt the warden can cite you. If you legally crossed the corner they can’t. Hence the reason the county DA is the one who was called 15 times by the landowner and he called and had a deputy dispatched to write the charges on the hunters.



I dont think there is a legal cross at the corner. The long understanded defination of property lines is that they extend upward into the air, later revised to be limited to the height of the lowest flights in the area. If the corner is the intersection of two lines , meaning it is infintesimally small, and the property lines go up into the air, there is not a way to cross at a corner where you do not break the property line. I think all public land should have access, and I think corner crossing should be legal, the landowner is not being harmed in the slightest, but by those definitions and understandings, and no law in place to make corner crossing legal, it seems that they will be fighting an uphill battle.


The air space seems to be another area that isn’t really defined by law either regarding this matter. What makes no sense either is that in WY you can legally float the river and cross through private as long as you aren’t touching the bottom or the bank. That seems to make much more sense seeing as you aren’t in physical contact with the private property.

In the end I still think the public should be allowed to cross at these type of corners especially if they are not damaging the private property or causing any harm to it. If a person trespasses on private property not at a corner they do deserve to be cited though.

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Originally Posted by 805
Originally Posted by Oakster
Originally Posted by 805
Originally Posted by UncleAlps
Very typical Wyoming access lockout. Not sure what the case law is but generally the private landowners can block access at these section corners. At least that's what we've all been taught by G&F.


This is a very grey area when talking to WY game wardens. WY Game wardens can’t cite for criminal trespassing but can cite you for trespassing on private with the intent to hunt. Meaning if you knowingly/unknowingly crossed private to get to public to hunt the warden can cite you. If you legally crossed the corner they can’t. Hence the reason the county DA is the one who was called 15 times by the landowner and he called and had a deputy dispatched to write the charges on the hunters.



I dont think there is a legal cross at the corner. The long understanded defination of property lines is that they extend upward into the air, later revised to be limited to the height of the lowest flights in the area. If the corner is the intersection of two lines , meaning it is infintesimally small, and the property lines go up into the air, there is not a way to cross at a corner where you do not break the property line. I think all public land should have access, and I think corner crossing should be legal, the landowner is not being harmed in the slightest, but by those definitions and understandings, and no law in place to make corner crossing legal, it seems that they will be fighting an uphill battle.


The air space seems to be another area that isn’t really defined by law either regarding this matter. What makes no sense either is that in WY you can legally float the river and cross through private as long as you aren’t touching the bottom or the bank. That seems to make much more sense seeing as you aren’t in physical contact with the private property.

In the end I still think the public should be allowed to cross at these type of corners especially if they are not damaging the private property or causing any harm to it. If a person trespasses on private property not at a corner they do deserve to be cited though.
Idaho has a statewide recreational easement on navigable waters. You can legally be anywhere within the normal high water lines. During low water, and during most waterfowl seasons, that gives you quite a bit of dry land to play on. The question is what all is navigable. North of us is a large creek that's a very popular flyfishing stream. Years ago a couple landowners fenced it all off. At the time it had never been designated as navigable or not. A guy I knew and some of his friends floated it in a canoe to prove it's navigable. They won in court and the gates were opened. The general rule is that if you can float a belly boat in it, it's navigable.


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Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.

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Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.


Then it should be no problem for you to point out the specific statute and language in statute saying corner crossing is illegal.

Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.

please come down the city sidewalk, step across my lawn to the other sidewalk i know were tge pin is,,, there is no difference, people do it daily, it is not hurting me

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Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.


Then it should be no problem for you to point out the specific statute and language in statute saying corner crossing is illegal.

Good luck with that.


It's Wyoming 6-3-303. It's impossible to cross the corner without illegally entering the property of one (or both) of the other corners. If proper notice has been given (and the picture of the signs shows that it has been), it's trespassing which is why he was arrested and charged and will be convicted if he doesn't plea out.

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Originally Posted by 300stw
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.

please come down the city sidewalk, step across my lawn to the other sidewalk i know were tge pin is,,, there is no difference, people do it daily, it is not hurting me


I didn' hurt nuffin. The whine of every criminal ever.

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Oh, and ownership of the space above your land in Wyoming is Wyoming Statute 10-4-302. The legislature made it 100% clear who owns that airspace (it's whoever owns the ground), and as soon as you enter it and it's posted, that's trespassing.

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Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Oh, and ownership of the space above your land in Wyoming is Wyoming Statute 10-4-302. The legislature made it 100% clear who owns that airspace (it's whoever owns the ground), and as soon as you enter it and it's posted, that's trespassing.



That's civil trespass and for that to be the case, the landowner has to prove damage to their property.

What "damage" would be assessed for momentarily passing through "air space" while stepping from one piece of public land to another? Answer? ZERO.

Same as me waving my hand over your lawn...and every attorney I've talked to says the same thing, there is no damage for a civil suit to apply.

I'm also curious why its not considered trespassing via air space violation to float every water way in Wyoming when the land under the rivers is owned by the private land owners? Does the water end their right to the air above it?

There's no clear statute and why I believe this case never sees a courtroom...and even if it does, common sense tells me there is no criminal or civil trespass case that's going to hold up for stepping from one piece of public to another.

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Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.


Then it should be no problem for you to point out the specific statute and language in statute saying corner crossing is illegal.

Good luck with that.


It's Wyoming 6-3-303. It's impossible to cross the corner without illegally entering the property of one (or both) of the other corners. If proper notice has been given (and the picture of the signs shows that it has been), it's trespassing which is why he was arrested and charged and will be convicted if he doesn't plea out.


Read the statute, no mention of airspace in title 6-3-303...point out where air space is mentioned or implied.

Its not there....I'll save you the suspense.

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Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.


Then it should be no problem for you to point out the specific statute and language in statute saying corner crossing is illegal.

Good luck with that.


It's Wyoming 6-3-303. It's impossible to cross the corner without illegally entering the property of one (or both) of the other corners. If proper notice has been given (and the picture of the signs shows that it has been), it's trespassing which is why he was arrested and charged and will be convicted if he doesn't plea out.


Read the statute, no mention of airspace in title 6-3-303...point out where air space is mentioned or implied.

Its not there....I'll save you the suspense.


Typical BHA ignorance (or just plain stupidity)....like Llama_Bob pointed out, the WY code states that land ownership includes the air rights. When 6-3-303 refers to land, and doesn't provide a specific definition of that term, the term is defined by reference to where the ownership rights pertaining to land are defined elsewhere, which is 10-4-302.

You'd think that the guy who is inciting violations of law and proudly stating that he's going to win the case would know the basics of what the case entails.

I'll enjoy watching BHA get shot down and may even start poking around the docket to see if there's an opportunity for an amicus filing to support the EM ranch. Not that I like being blocked from hunting, but it's their land and their right to prohibit trespassing.

As for this bozo's claim that there is no civil action for trespass without damages, that's idiotic. First, damages can be as low as $1, (and I'd argue that the landowner's damages are more than that, at least the cost of having to set up security to prevent trespassing in the future) and the landowner can get an injunction against the trespassers and those who were complicit, and a jury can award punitive damages if it thinks that some scumbags are engaging in unlawful acts that need to be punished even if there is no substantial monetary loss. Were I counsel to the ranch, I'd file for an injunction against BHA for being the deep pocketed instigation behind the trespassers.

Lord, I loathe BHA Marxists. They're as stupid as they are arrogant.

Last edited by Remsen; 12/02/21.

Eliminate qualified immunity and you'll eliminate cops who act like they are above the law.
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Originally Posted by Remsen
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Originally Posted by BuzzH
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
Corner crossing is illegal if you don't have permission to be on private land. Don't like it, buy the land you want to cross or negotiate a trespass fee.

The low altitude airspace being part of the property is just the way it works.


Then it should be no problem for you to point out the specific statute and language in statute saying corner crossing is illegal.

Good luck with that.


It's Wyoming 6-3-303. It's impossible to cross the corner without illegally entering the property of one (or both) of the other corners. If proper notice has been given (and the picture of the signs shows that it has been), it's trespassing which is why he was arrested and charged and will be convicted if he doesn't plea out.


Read the statute, no mention of airspace in title 6-3-303...point out where air space is mentioned or implied.

Its not there....I'll save you the suspense.


Typical BHA ignorance (or just plain stupidity)....like Llama_Bob pointed out, the WY code states that land ownership includes the air rights. When 6-3-303 refers to land, and doesn't provide a specific definition of that term, the term is defined by reference to where the ownership rights pertaining to land are defined elsewhere, which is 10-4-302.

You'd think that the guy who is inciting violations of law and proudly stating that he's going to win the case would know the basics of what the case entails.

I'll enjoy watching BHA get shot down and may even start poking around the docket to see if there's an opportunity for an amicus filing to support the EM ranch. Not that I like being blocked from hunting, but it's their land and their right to prohibit trespassing.

As for this bozo's claim that there is no civil action for trespass without damages, that's idiotic. First, damages can be as low as $1, (and I'd argue that the landowner's damages are more than that, at least the cost of having to set up security to prevent trespassing in the future) and the landowner can get an injunction against the trespassers and those who were complicit, and a jury can award punitive damages if it thinks that some scumbags are engaging in unlawful acts that need to be punished even if there is no substantial monetary loss. Were I counsel to the ranch, I'd file for an injunction against BHA for being the deep pocketed instigation behind the trespassers.

Lord, I loathe BHA Marxists. They're as stupid as they are arrogant.


Four solid WY attorneys are going to argue the case...go watch another Matlock rerun...

Its not EM's right to prohibit access to public land, which they very much are attempting to do.

Also EM ranch did not attempt to take civil action...wonder why that is? Because they probably have attorneys that know its a waste of money and time to go that route for an air space violation...just a guess. A billionaire letting a couple lowly tax payer funded public servants fight their case for them pro bono...how noble.



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So what prevents ranchers or land owners to put up tall elaborate fences at these corners to stop people crossing over?

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Buzz, your comments are so full of hyperbole, you have only convinced yourself. You are BHA’s poster child, you want to beat the drum for an environmental terrorist organization and still fit in with the hunting crowd. Although you are not alone, you are not right.

Stay in Wyoming and fight the good fight with your other confused buddies in the asylum.


Originally Posted by RJY66

I was thinking the other day how much I used to hate Bill Clinton. He was freaking George Washington compared to what they are now.
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