My pocket gun is a kahr cm9. After ten years my P3AT broke the extractor. I really like the size so I bought a LCP to replace the keltek and it had feeding issues every mag and then broke the extractor after 60 rounds. I have a hard time trusting the ruger LCP.
The kahr just keeps on working. But I much prefer shooting my 365xl and based on that I would want to shoot a std 365 if I was looking for another pocket gun.
I've had a P32 since they first appeared on the market. No complaints, other than the first one I got I shot a lot, and a strip of steel peeled away from the slide. Sent it back, and they sent it back to me with a new slide in no time. With standard mags, it's been 100% reliable. Not so much with the extended mags, which promote jamming.
Of late I have been slipping the new LCP Max into my pocket. Still need to find a better pocket holster.
I'm at about 400 rounds through it, all but 50 were FMJ's, no problems. The fatter grip makes a big difference for me and I find it much easier for me to shoot than the previous LCP. I use only the 12 round magazines as they give me just a little more to hold onto, and don't make a noticeable difference in my pocket.
I don't have any 380s. But there is something in me that kind of wants one, maybe just my inner 'gun nut' speaking to me. I don't know if it would be something I would carry much, I still kind of want one.
The modern pistols and ammo have really brought more capability to the 380. Still in a small, lightweight, mild shooting package.
This vid is a good demonstration, using the Glock 42 using Lehigh and Underwood ammo in various gel and barrier tests.
This thread has some aspects of a caliber debate, and I am happy to wade into it. There is no doubt that the 9mm out of a mini-gun is more powerful than the .380, but at the expense of recoil and split times. My P365 also weighs about 7 ounces more than my Glock 42 (both loaded), and it is much more difficult to get a firing grip in the pocket and to draw from my pockets with the 365 than with the 42. I still think that the .380 can be viable for self-defense although not optimal.
As far as penetration versus expansion is concerned, I dug up 2 water jug videos that show 9mm 124 grain standard pressure Gold Dots out of a Sig P365XL and a Ruger PC Carbine versus .380 Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator (handload loaded to same velocity as Lehigh factory ammo out of my gun). (I wish I had done the same 9mm Gold Dot test with a standard P365, which runs 75 fps slower than the XL, but I haven't yet.) That plus a gel test (also linked) convinced me that the .380 Xtreme Penetrator is viable for self-defense out of my gun without overpenetrating. I also have shot water jugs and gel with Buffalo Bore standard pressure hard cast, and it just penetrates a lot more and appears likely to waste energy after exiting the target. I do keep a spare magazine loaded with .380 BB hard cast in my emergency bag for when I am at the cabin and don't feel like putting on a bigger gun to step outside for a couple of minutes.
Lower your volume. It’s windy here.
Not as powerful a thump, but still a thump and some major leakage:
About 14 inches of penetration without striking bone or meat and about 12 inches after striking bone and meat:
Carry on.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
Those Lehigh defense bullets are something else.. IMHO a .380 loaded with those at close range (it's what a pocket pistol's for anyway) is gonna leave some serious internal damage..
But I defer to Cheyenne's expertise.. I always appreciate his posts.. Kudos sir.
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69 Pro-Constitution. LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
But I defer to Cheyenne's expertise.. I always appreciate his posts.. Kudos sir.
Although I am flattered by your praise, I claim no level of expertise. Unfortunately, game laws will not let me test the ammo the way I would like to, and there is little testing done by the lab coat guys on low volume boutique ammo in non-service calibers. So, I am stuck doing the best that I can in addition to looking at what others do. I'll pile on with one more video. Paul Harrel used Underwood +P ammo while I use Lehigh standard pressure ammo or handloads loaded to the same spec. I get about 40 fps less velocity out of my .380. I get about 20 fps less velocity out of my Sig P365 than his 9mm (and about 20 fps more than Harrell's Underwood in my P365 XL). While Paul Harrell's results mirror mine with respect to the .380, I got a lot more penetration out of the 9mm when shot at the same gel target array as my .380. I carry the Xtreme Penetrator in my P365 when in the woods, but not on pavement.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
I pocket carry a 9mm Beretta Nano but it weighs 19.8 oz empty, my daughters Beretta Pico weighs 11.5 oz. empty, that's a difference of 8.3 oz, before you load up 7 rounds of ammunition in each pistol. At a distance of 7 yards or less, where most attacks occur, the 380 ACP can be effective. In jeans or Dockers it's possible to pocket carry a 20+ oz pistol and not have it sag, you can't really do that with sweatpants or gym shorts. The truly small light 380 pistols do fill a need.
The LCP and Beretta Nano never felt as smooth to me as other guns. I carry an XDS 9, although many would consider it too big for a pocket pistol. I carry it in a sticky holster in my pocket some portion of the time depending on the pants I'm wearing. Otherwise I carry it in a IWB holster.
Of the 6 or 7 people I saw killed with the 380 acp, I don't think any of them resulted from a JHP round. IIRC all were FMJs. I don't remember any bullets exiting, but I do remember one example of penetration from a hip bone to a clavicle, as the deceased was laying on a couch when he was shot by another junkie laying on a loveseat across the room. The 380 lacks flash and speed, but it is a killer. Make no mistake.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
Of the 6 or 7 people I saw killed with the 380 acp, I don't think any of them resulted from a JHP round. IIRC all were FMJs. I don't remember any bullets exiting, but I do remember one example of penetration from a hip bone to a clavicle, as the deceased was laying on a couch when he was shot by another junkie laying on a loveseat across the room. The 380 lacks flash and speed, but it is a killer. Make no mistake.
My thinking on the 380, if I were to carry one, would be to go with non-expanding bullets, to stack the deck in favor of penetration.
Ball ammo would be the default there, but the Lehigh bullet seems to increase wounding ability while still giving decent penetration. Most of the expanding hollow points seem to get no more than 7-10" penetration in gel testing.
Of the 6 or 7 people I saw killed with the 380 acp, I don't think any of them resulted from a JHP round. IIRC all were FMJs. I don't remember any bullets exiting, but I do remember one example of penetration from a hip bone to a clavicle, as the deceased was laying on a couch when he was shot by another junkie laying on a loveseat across the room. The 380 lacks flash and speed, but it is a killer. Make no mistake.
My thinking on the 380, if I were to carry one, would be to go with non-expanding bullets, to stack the deck in favor of penetration.
Ball ammo would be the default there, but the Lehigh bullet seems to increase wounding ability while still giving decent penetration. Most of the expanding hollow points seem to get no more than 7-10" penetration in gel testing.
Can't disagree with you.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/173918.jpg)
