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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm


Not sure, haven't heard anything lately. Looks like they are somewhat in the remote regions. Most of the human population is on the east coast with relatively short travel to areas with pigs, foxes, cats, wild dogs etc so these are more commonly hunted. Camels were also a problem at one stage I thought but you'd have to be really keen, and well prepared, to visit the areas where they inhabit.

Check out the appendix in the attached report (it's 10 years old, so is out of date, but gives some sort of idea):




Pest Animals OzzieLand


Very interesting. It's just very strange reading deer listed as a pest animal, as someone who lives in a state with an extremely short annual licensed deer season. We only get a 7 day firearm season for them.

I know feral cats are a big problem in cities here in the US, and feral hogs are thick down south. Where I'm at, coyotes, ground squirrels, groundhogs, and raccoons are the worst pest animals. Feral hogs are beginning to trickle into the area, though, so I'm sure they'll become an issue sooner than later.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Pugs
For the safety metric the US is #3 behind China and India - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/safest-countries-in-the-world (lots of odd info there but page down to the bottom of first section.


There is something amiss with the info in that section. A link to the Global Safety Index on that page shows a list of best to worst with Australia at 10th, China at 85th and USA at 117th.

Any sort of poll or analysis will always be subjective to some extent in regards to parameters defining quality of life and their associated weightings in the overall assessment.


Agreed - their criteria for safety seems kinda wonky IMO.

I live very near Baltimore, a truly unsafe city, but we've had virtually no violent crime near me in 20+ years. Property crime yes. The US, just like Australia I expect, has its pockets of crime that are generally easy enough to avoid. That being said, the only time I was confronted with potentially violent crime was in a very rural section of Washington State. I had a Colt 1911 that prevented it. That was over 30 years ago.


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crime and murders are where you find them. Thats EXACTLY why we carry 24/7 as long as its feasible. Like you can't on a plane, but can in the airport etc....

Not having the self responsibility to protect yourself is just nuts.


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Originally Posted by zcm82
Feral hogs are beginning to trickle into the area, though, so I'm sure they'll become an issue sooner than later.


There are "rumors" a few have been killed near a friends house. His property is within a mile of large sections of the Shawnee National Forrest. I'm really hoping they don't get established down here. Fortunately, there are a couple big rivers in the way of their northern migration.

It is challenging to comprehend that Australia is roughly the same size as the "lower 48" but with a population roughly equal to the greater Los Angles area. Then factor in something near 85% of the population lives within 30mi / 50km of the coast. That doesn't leave much for in the middle. I thought rural Nevada was sparsely populated.

Hoped I'd get the chance to visit when I worked for Peabody. They flew nearly every other engineer down there to visit a mine. I did find it amusing that one of the few Aussies I've worked with hadn't heard of Steve Irwin until he lived in the States. He also told me Aussies normally don't drink Fosters. I don't remember if it was him or someone else that told me XXXX got it's name because guys from Queensland can't spell beer. I believe he was from Perth. I assumed that was something similar to how Southerner's make fun of Yankee's here in the US. Personally, I'm a James Boag fan, when I can find it.

From what I've read/seen/heard, the history of wildlife in Australia is complicated. Lots of opinions on native, non-native, and feral species. Opinions of fox, hogs, rabbit, cane toads, and cats alone could generate pages of discussion. But, I live half a world away and I'm probably wrong.

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Originally Posted by zcm82
Someone mentioned donkey hunting... are feral donkeys a big problem there?

Yes, but not as bad as the camels. There are estimated to be over 500,000 wild camel in the deserts of 3 adjoining States. Fences are no barrier they just walk through them, knock over water tanks and trample native scrub. I was on a 1 million acre cattle Station (ranch) in Western Australia once and the owner showed me a place where he had shot a heap of camels. It looked like a dinosoar graveyard. He used a Winchester mod 70 in 270.

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Originally Posted by zcm82


Very interesting. It's just very strange reading deer listed as a pest animal, as someone who lives in a state with an extremely short annual licensed deer season. We only get a 7 day firearm season for them.



Pest animals are "invasive introduced species" by definition. I guess that there could be "non-invasive introduced species" but don't know what they are. Deer are a non-native animal of Australia. According to the report deer may carry exotic disease and are a general threat to the biodiversity. Australia has many unique, small animals that are sensitive to the impact of these larger introduced animals and the effect that they have on their habitat.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by 158XTP
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Adamjp
Pistol cartridge carbines are fun guns for pigging in swamps, not for hunting on most places.


A 9mm carbine has to be a sub-machine gun to come close to being useful, but not anyway that I know for sure. I've used 357mag out of a rifle on kangaroos and it's totally effective out to at least 70m, as far as I've shot them anyway. I was amazed it worked as well as it did. Hornady XTPs are brilliant.

'


I shoot XTP's to 125 yards, they are good killers yep. A 357 in a 1894 or even better modern 1892 repro( which are as strong as some bolt actions) can push 158gn bullets towards 2100fps.

Originally Posted by 158XTP
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Adamjp
Pistol cartridge carbines are fun guns for pigging in swamps, not for hunting on most places.


A 9mm carbine has to be a sub-machine gun to come close to being useful, but not anyway that I know for sure. I've used 357mag out of a rifle on kangaroos and it's totally effective out to at least 70m, as far as I've shot them anyway. I was amazed it worked as well as it did. Hornady XTPs are brilliant.

'


I shoot XTP's to 125 yards, they are good killers yep. A 357 in a 1894 or even better modern 1892 repro( which are as strong as some bolt actions) can push 158gn bullets towards 2100fps.


I was wondering about the 158 XTP reference. They have a great reputation. A really good shooting and handloading writer, Brian Pearce, is very complimentary of that bullet and the .357 from carbines and describes loads similar to what you mention. In his estimation, at appropriate ranges, the practical performance of the .357 from a carbine is similar to that of a .30-30. IMO, that’s pretty high praise.


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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm


Pest animals are "invasive introduced species" by definition. I guess that there could be "non-invasive introduced species" but don't know what they are. Deer are a non-native animal of Australia. According to the report deer may carry exotic disease and are a general threat to the biodiversity. Australia has many unique, small animals that are sensitive to the impact of these larger introduced animals and the effect that they have on their habitat.


Yeah, I understand the reasoning for it, just really stood out while reading since deer are the premier game species here in the US. I know the U.K. is having issues with those little muntjac deer being quite a disruptive invasive.

Even here where deer are native, they can become a serious nusciance when unchecked. Back in the early 2000s when I was living in Minnesota, deer hunting was actually allowed in certain places within town limits for a few years because they had gotten so thick a bunch of people were hitting them with cars in residential neighborhoods.


Originally Posted by triplecanopy

Yes, but not as bad as the camels. There are estimated to be over 500,000 wild camel in the deserts of 3 adjoining States. Fences are no barrier they just walk through them, knock over water tanks and trample native scrub. I was on a 1 million acre cattle Station (ranch) in Western Australia once and the owner showed me a place where he had shot a heap of camels. It looked like a dinosoar graveyard. He used a Winchester mod 70 in 270.


Hard to go wrong with .270 for a medium game round. I used one for whitetail deer quite a few years myself. Mine was a Remington 7600 pump, though.

There were some feral camels in the southwestern US that got loose from an experimental Army camel corps in the late 19th and early 20th century, but they never got well established and had all died off by the 1940s.

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Originally Posted by minengr
[quote=zcm82]
From what I've read/seen/heard, the history of wildlife in Australia is complicated. Lots of opinions on native, non-native, and feral species. Opinions of fox, hogs, rabbit, cane toads, and cats alone could generate pages of discussion. But, I live half a world away and I'm probably wrong.

Id sum up the main differences between US and Australia as follows

US has far more guns, gun rights but so many hunters per game it has strict regs and seasons to manage them.

Australia has plague proportions of at least a dozen major species, my state alone has the worlds largest population of wild pigs, they outnumber people by a million or so, wild cattle, wild camels( well it shares them with a couple other states), wild donkeys and probably wild horses. Also have wild dogs, goats and cats but not sure how we rank numbers wise. In Australia you can shoot most gameno bag limits or seasons, day or night, from vehicle, boat, bike or helicopter, blast away until your barrel melts and leave it to rot. Dedicated hunters here have kills in the thousands.

However....there is an important caveat most Aussies dont mention. There is very little public land available for hunting anymore. You usually need your own land or permission from another landowner to shoot anywhere, and as farmers/landowners are worried about the vandalism, carelessness and liability these days, its not as easy as it used to be to get onto land. There are some states which allow hunting in state parks and have programs to cull animals in protected areas, but by and large Australias greatest surface area is permission only hunting these days.

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That's a bummer about the land access issue there. It's becoming more of an issue in the eastern US, but it doesn't sound like to near as badly a degree as there in Aus.

Is the closing of public lands to hunting a fairly sudden recent development there, or was it just a slow progression?.

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Not actually sure, I started shooting in the late 80's and by then our national parks were non shooting areas. I seem to recall the early 80's the national parks laws changed, so it might have been something sudden around then. The 7 states and territories of Australia may be different from each other as well. Need some older fellows to weigh in on it

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Originally Posted by 158XTP
Not actually sure, I started shooting in the late 80's and by then our national parks were non shooting areas. I seem to recall the early 80's the national parks laws changed, so it might have been something sudden around then. The 7 states and territories of Australia may be different from each other as well. Need some older fellows to weigh in on it


I must the the same vintage as you - similar type of experience.

I just want to add that I don't recall hunting state forests ever being allowed in QLD although some are in NSW but a proficiency test must be passed beforehand and then the particular forest booked. The border is not that far away but I've never done the test or hunted state forest in NSW, although I have hunted on private property there.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

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Thanks for the insight, guys. Always interesting to learn new things about places I've not been to.

There's just a distinct lack of public land in my state, less than 2% of the total state acreage is open to public hunting, and you have to get special permits to hunt on it. With the demand so high vs number of permits available, the odds of drawing one are extremely slim at best on most of the areas.

Same issue as you all with private land, it's hard to get permission these days. I used to have 3 places to hunt, but now I only have one. One of the others was sold to someone who doesn't allow hunting, and the other had a house built on the neighboring property that is closer than the minimum legal distance required for shooting. The land I do my hunting on now isn't particularly good hunting ground, but it's still a lot better than having nowhere to go.

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Originally Posted by zcm82
There's just a distinct lack of public land in my state, less than 2% of the total state acreage is open to public hunting, and you have to get special permits to hunt on it. With the demand so high vs number of permits available, the odds of drawing one are extremely slim at best on most of the areas.


I guess I'm lucky to live in the part of the state where the majority of public ground is located. I'm 10 min from Sahara Woods which is 4100ac of state ground and 15 min from the Shawnee National Forrest which is 265k acres of Forrest Service. There are certain parcels of state ground that require a special permit or are a limited draw for deer hunting. Almost all of state ground requires a "window card", which is free. I think parts of Pyramid Park require something, Sahara Woods does not, neither does any of the Forest Service (that I know of). Down side is, it can get a bit crazy and crowded on public ground. There are a good number of "city folk" that head down to the sticks to kill a deer. They are why I only bow hunt on public ground and I'll never do opening day of duck season on public ground again.

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Originally Posted by minengr


I guess I'm lucky to live in the part of the state where the majority of public ground is located. I'm 10 min from Sahara Woods which is 4100ac of state ground and 15 min from the Shawnee National Forrest which is 265k acres of Forrest Service. There are certain parcels of state ground that require a special permit or are a limited draw for deer hunting. Almost all of state ground requires a "window card", which is free. I think parts of Pyramid Park require something, Sahara Woods does not, neither does any of the Forest Service (that I know of). Down side is, it can get a bit crazy and crowded on public ground. There are a good number of "city folk" that head down to the sticks to kill a deer. They are why I only bow hunt on public ground and I'll never do opening day of duck season on public ground again.


Shawnee is like a 4 hour drive for me.

I work a couple miles from a small patch of public ground. I have a window card for small game hunting out there, but it is closed to small game during deer season, which is a shame because it is chock full of squirrels.

With this year being so warm, I haven't even been out there yet, since the leaves never dropped before deer season opened. I'll hit it a few times after archery closes next month.

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Makes it hard even to plink or load test. I remember shooting in the early 80's as a kid on my grandfathers 10 acre block. It was on a road down to a local beach, not built up, but not remote either. Most of the blocks were between 1/4 acre to 10 acre allotments. We were just plinking paint cans and trees for fun with 22LR, shotgun and 30-30 mostly. Looking back it must have created a hell of a racket, as at least a dozen houses were within rock throwing distance. But shooting noise back then was just considered regular occasional background noise, like dirt bikes or kids on ATV's. People thought, well those young fellas are shooting again, just as long as they dont keep it up all day its fine. With the world we live in now its hard to remember how well it worked before. One shot within earshot of that beach these days and ten folks would consider it civic duty to call police.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by 158XTP
Not actually sure, I started shooting in the late 80's and by then our national parks were non shooting areas. I seem to recall the early 80's the national parks laws changed, so it might have been something sudden around then. The 7 states and territories of Australia may be different from each other as well. Need some older fellows to weigh in on it


I must the the same vintage as you - similar type of experience.

I just want to add that I don't recall hunting state forests ever being allowed in QLD although some are in NSW but a proficiency test must be passed beforehand and then the particular forest booked. The border is not that far away but I've never done the test or hunted state forest in NSW, although I have hunted on private property there.


yeah mate, I guess it could be googled, to figure out the date land became national parks, i didnt have much luck. I do remember they used to talk about '' crown land'' in the day, and the hazy recollection was you could shoot on crown land as long as it wasnt yet declared national park( aka totally protected). I know a retired parks officer in his 60's, will ask him next time I see him

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Originally Posted by Blu_Cs
Do primers require a license?

No mate, they don't. You have to show your license when you purchase ammo, but not for components. Some Australians have a somewhat different sense of humour to a lot of Americans. So you may get a few smart arse (ass) comments from a few of my country men. We often talk to one another as if there's an issue of some sort. It's just normal conversation here.

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Originally Posted by triplecanopy
Originally Posted by Blu_Cs
Do primers require a license?

No mate, they don't. You have to show your license when you purchase ammo, but not for components. Some Australians have a somewhat different sense of humour to a lot of Americans. So you may get a few smart arse (ass) comments from a few of my country men. We often talk to one another as if there's an issue of some sort. It's just normal conversation here.


I'm pretty sure you do, I can't remember though (I usually buy multiple items when I shop and there's always a flash of the licence required, no overly memorable event). Also powder is classed as an explosive and, in addition to showing your licence, it goes into a register that you have to sign off on - the authorities are meant to keep track of how much powder you may have, or rather if you appear to be buying excessive amounts. There is a limit of 15kg (I think) maximum stored at a domestic residence here in QLD. I don't know how closely anyone actually looks at the data and I've never been visited or asked to show cause, but I typically don't buy large quantities of powder all that often.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
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I used to burn at least 30 pounds a year when I lived there. Powder was always coming home with me and no license was required. Had a mate who also bought it in barrels.
Even in the 80's and 90's we bought brass by the shovel full on scales. I can still clearly remember Peter Abella shoveling cases into a box on scales in the middle of his shop floor for me. I gave it all away when I moved and somehow its like coat hangers, the damn stuff breeds on your shelves.


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