Jesus said there would be few that follow the straight & narrow route, so I say no. I can't say whether anyone is saved, reprobate or in between. It's between them and God.
Do all the millions of races of space aliens have the same God? Same Bible? Did Jay Zus go to all of them? Do they all have their own heaven or does every being have to share just one?
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Do all the millions of races of space aliens have the same God? Same Bible? Did Jay Zus go to all of them? Do they all have their own heaven or does every being have to share just one?
God might be an alien, although on the other hand it is alleged that he created man in his own image so therefore he must be an ape - a space ape?
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
I think Jesus is an inspiring figure that we can learn a lot from regardless of what one’s beliefs are. Not all conversations about Him have to involve conversion or church or the Bible or salvation or anything else that typically goes along with these kinds of conversations. Regardless of what people’s thoughts are about Him, He dealt with a lotta the struggles that we deal with every day. And he made friends with people who were nothing like Him, and they made friends with each other because of their love for Him.
There are other expectations and understandings of Jesus than what many people typically currently have. I think it’s likely that many people are open to exploring more about Jesus…not religion and all that it entails…but Jesus period, and many more likely think the world would be a better place if His teachings were actually lived by many more of those who profess to be His followers, and by those who don’t.
I think the stories of Jesus is anare inspiringfiguremorality tales that we can learn a lot from regardless of what one’s beliefs are. Not all conversations about Him have to involve conversion or church or the Bible or salvation or anything else that typically goes along with these kinds of conversations. Regardless of what people’s thoughts are about Him, He dealt with a lotta the struggles that we deal with every day. And he made friends with people who were nothing like Him, and they made friends with each other because of their love for Him.
There are other expectations and understandings of Jesus than what many people typically currently have. I think it’s likely that many people are open to exploring more about Jesus…not religion and all that it entails…but Jesus period, and many more likely think the world would be a better place if His teachings were actually lived by many more of those who profess to be His followers, and by those who don’t.
Some minor adjustments so we can agree....
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
How moral is a blood sacrifice as a condition for forgiveness? How moral is a conditional salvation based on faith, expecting a conviction in the absence of evidence?
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
If only it were that simple:
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
So you see this as being moral and just? Saving an arse*hole because he has 'faith in Jesus' is preferable to saving a humanist who strives towards a higher standard of morality?
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
I'm glad that you understand God's grace LBP! Who led you to the Lord? Sunday school teacher?
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
So you see this as being moral and just? Saving an arse*hole because he has 'faith in Jesus' is preferable to saving a humanist who strives towards a higher standard of morality?
"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." That starts with me. None of us are worthy of God's kindness.
I was directed to this O.T. Proverb. 20 "Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?" And... "Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?"
We can compare ourselves to others who appear morally inferior just as we could search and find others who seem to have holiness. However, the proverbs still apply. God doesn't grade on a curve. It's pass or fail. He said to a "holy" man,
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."