Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
I'm glad that you understand God's grace LBP! Who led you to the Lord? Sunday school teacher?
Sounds like a green light for those pedophile preachers out there.
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
Matthew 7:13-14 “'Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.'"
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
How moral is a blood sacrifice as a condition for forgiveness? How moral is a conditional salvation based on faith, expecting a conviction in the absence of evidence?
An atheist pontificating about what is moral. That's rich!
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
So you see this as being moral and just? Saving an arse*hole because he has 'faith in Jesus' is preferable to saving a humanist who strives towards a higher standard of morality?
"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." That starts with me. None of us are worthy of God's kindness.
I was directed to this O.T. Proverb. 20 "Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?" And... "Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?"
We can compare ourselves to others who appear morally inferior just as we could search and find others who seem to have holiness. However, the proverbs still apply. God doesn't grade on a curve. It's pass or fail. He said to a "holy" man,
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
That says nothing about the morality of salvation based on a belief held without sufficient evidence: faith... that saving an arse*hole is preferable over a decent human being because the latter has an inquiring mind that questions, not simply believes. So, I guess that the god of the NT values compliancy over both reason and justice.
How moral is a blood sacrifice as a condition for forgiveness? How moral is a conditional salvation based on faith, expecting a conviction in the absence of evidence?
An atheist pontificating about what is moral. That's rich!
No need to pontificate. The bible itself describes what is moral, even while describing its God transgressing these very same principles.....
Given that there are nearly 8 billion people are on the planet, I’m going to say 4 billion of them aren’t honest Christians, or any one particular religion. Therefore, whoever has the religion thing figured out, the answer is no.
Given that there are nearly 8 billion people are on the planet, I’m going to say 4 billion of them aren’t honest Christians, or any one particular religion. Therefore, whoever has the religion thing figured out, the answer is no.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
How moral is a blood sacrifice as a condition for forgiveness? How moral is a conditional salvation based on faith, expecting a conviction in the absence of evidence?
An atheist pontificating about what is moral. That's rich!
No need to pontificate. The bible itself describes what is moral, even while describing its God transgressing these very same principles.....
No need...but you do it anyway and as a relativist no less!
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. Only a fool would turn that down.
Now I know you are not a Christian.You have no idea what being a Christian entails.Don`t continue to show what a liar you are.
Its all right to be white!! Stupidity left unattended will run rampant Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
So you see this as being moral and just? Saving an arse*hole because he has 'faith in Jesus' is preferable to saving a humanist who strives towards a higher standard of morality?
"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." That starts with me. None of us are worthy of God's kindness.
I was directed to this O.T. Proverb. 20 "Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?" And... "Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?"
We can compare ourselves to others who appear morally inferior just as we could search and find others who seem to have holiness. However, the proverbs still apply. God doesn't grade on a curve. It's pass or fail. He said to a "holy" man,
"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
That says nothing about the morality of salvation based on a belief held without sufficient evidence: faith... that saving an arse*hole is preferable over a decent human being because the latter has an inquiring mind that questions, not simply believes. So, I guess that the god of the NT values compliancy over both reason and justice.
God's justice was satisfied when His Son said, Tetelestai, "It is finished!" That was the perfect justice of God completed. The will of the Father was stated by His Son in John 6. The will of the Father is for you to believe on His Son. He made it free of any effort, since Jesus took care of the hard part.
Matthew 7:13-14 “'Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.'"
If the small gate is for those morally and ethically corrupt sinners that accept Jesus as their saviour, it's hardly surprising anyone would what to go through it. Why mix with murderers and pedophiles?
Couldn't they have come up with a better advertisement?
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
And it came to pass that St. Victor was taken from this place to another place, where he was lain upon pillows of silk and made to rest himself among sheets of muslin and velvet. And there, strokèd was he by maidens of the Orient. For sixteen days and nights strokèd they him, yea verily, and caressèd him. His hair rufflèd they, and their fingers rubbèd they in oil of olives, and runnèd them across all parts of his body for as much as to soothe him. And the soles of his feet lickèd they, and the upper parts of his thigh did they anoint with a balm of forbidden trees. And with the teeth of their mouths nibblèd they the pointy bits at the top of his ears. Yea, verily, and did their tongues thereof make themselves acquainted with his most secret places.
For fifteen days and nights did Victor withstand these maidens. But on the sixteenth day, he cried out, saying: "This is fantastic! Oh, this is terrific!"
And the Lord did hear the cry of Victor. And verily, came he down and slew the maidens, and caused their cotton-wool buds to blow away, and their Kleenex to be laid waste utterly. And Victor, in his anguish, cried out that the Lord was a rotten bastard. And the Lord sent an angel to comfort Victor for the weekend, and entered they together the jacuzzi.
I'm not claiming to be an authority but I have died and faced judgement and I can say with certainty your choices matter. What I can't say is who determines what is moral. Either there is a universal morality or you are judged on how well you follow the morality you were taught. I suspect it is a combo of those.
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Do all the millions of races of space aliens have the same God? Same Bible? Did Jay Zus go to all of them? Do they all have their own heaven or does every being have to share just one?
According to the born again guy I talked to in college 30 years ago he died for them as well. It's an old thought and boring. If aliens ever come here I think it'll make news for a week and then we'll all yawn, unless they come to destroy us, then we're screwed.
And it came to pass that St. Victor was taken from this place to another place, where he was lain upon pillows of silk and made to rest himself among sheets of muslin and velvet. And there, strokèd was he by maidens of the Orient. For sixteen days and nights strokèd they him, yea verily, and caressèd him. His hair rufflèd they, and their fingers rubbèd they in oil of olives, and runnèd them across all parts of his body for as much as to soothe him. And the soles of his feet lickèd they, and the upper parts of his thigh did they anoint with a balm of forbidden trees. And with the teeth of their mouths nibblèd they the pointy bits at the top of his ears. Yea, verily, and did their tongues thereof make themselves acquainted with his most secret places.
For fifteen days and nights did Victor withstand these maidens. But on the sixteenth day, he cried out, saying: "This is fantastic! Oh, this is terrific!"
And the Lord did hear the cry of Victor. And verily, came he down and slew the maidens, and caused their cotton-wool buds to blow away, and their Kleenex to be laid waste utterly. And Victor, in his anguish, cried out that the Lord was a rotten bastard. And the Lord sent an angel to comfort Victor for the weekend, and entered they together the jacuzzi.
God didn't treat women all that well did he, ever since the Lilith incident
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.
That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
I'm glad that you understand God's grace LBP! Who led you to the Lord? Sunday school teacher?
My mom the Sunday school teacher. 😉
Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.
The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.
Wrong DBT. "Reward "would be earning your acceptance with God due to YOUR good works. The only thing God owes you or can reward you with is punishment for your sins. Since His Son was nearly beaten to death in extreme torture, then nailed with spikes to suffer the torments of everyone's sins, He was rewarded with the death we deserve. He offers not only a full pardon, but forgiveness. Free for the asking. Only a fool would turn that down.
Pascals Wager is flawed for a number of reasons. Morally, Ethically, what it says about the character of God, etc...
What if someone is fallable, incapable of good works, exploitative, selfish, greedy, yet has great faith in Jesus?
Or someone who has no 'faith in Jesus' yet is a great humanitarian, engaged in helping those in need and is doing their best to build a better society?
The former is saved while the latter burns in hell?
Exactly right. Works don’t save anyone, only believing in Jesus Christ sacrifice for your sins and resurrection will save you.
I'm glad that you understand God's grace LBP! Who led you to the Lord? Sunday school teacher?
My mom the Sunday school teacher. 😉
That's extra awesome when it's your own parent who has that honor.