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Yeah, but is Billy Graham still in Hell?


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If the one true God being banned from a nation is good I wonder when we'll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society? I always see a hint of that desire in any thread that comes up on here concerning God and the Bible. So if you have a desire to see even more of throwing God out of our nation please explain to me when we'll start seeing the good in this.


So 9 hours later and no takers on my question? I don't want to argue, I just want the facts so please explain them to me.



How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.


I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.

Last edited by Jim1611; 01/04/22.
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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Believer's mindsets are clouded by delusion - delusion being defined as persistent false belief that does not change despite evidence to the contrary.…
Let’s see this “evidence” that God doesn’t exist…? Let’s see this “evidence” that Jesus didn’t exist…? Let’s see this “evidence” that Jesus wasn’t resurrected…?


Let's see the evidence of a god.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Believer's mindsets are clouded by delusion - delusion being defined as persistent false belief that does not change despite evidence to the contrary.…
Let’s see this “evidence” that God doesn’t exist…? Let’s see this “evidence” that Jesus didn’t exist…? Let’s see this “evidence” that Jesus wasn’t resurrected…?



You should know about absence of evidence by now. The nature of justification has been explained enough times. If there is no evidence for the existence of a Zeus, Yahweh, Allah, Brahman, etc, there is no reason to be convinced that any version of God exists. There are as many versions of God as there are believers in God.



And the foregoing, of course, is complete nonsense. The lack of evidence for the existence of Zeus is no evidence whatsoever for the non-existence of an Supreme Intelligence that created the Universe. We know the Universe had a begnnning (which Genesis also happens to posit) and we know that natural selection cannot explain the origin of life (the origin of the coded information which is a condition precedent to biological replication). We know that natural selection cannot explain the diversity of life either for that matter (for a host of reasons). No one posits that "Zeus" is the intelligence existing outside of time and matter which brought into existence time and matter but they certainly do posit the exist of a responsible Supreme Intelligence (God) and the probability His existence is as reasonable, if nor more so, than the competing inference.


You might want to educate yourself better on the facts of evolution.

And just remember there are no facts of god. Lack of our ability to explain something doesn't mean a god did it - that's just an absurd statement. May as well have been aliens or magic, with equal credibility.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If the one true God being banned from a nation is good I wonder when we'll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society? I always see a hint of that desire in any thread that comes up on here concerning God and the Bible. So if you have a desire to see even more of throwing God out of our nation please explain to me when we'll start seeing the good in this.


So 9 hours later and no takers on my question? I don't want to argue, I just want the facts so please explain them to me.



How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.


I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.


There are plenty of more secular countries that have lower crime rates and greater life satisfaction if you care to entertain considering beyond your belief.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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The show me proof argument is always humerus. Some say God doesn’t exist and prove that he does. I would say God does exist and prove that he doesn’t. It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you don’t and it really is that simple. You either believe or you don’t. This also includes Jesus and the resurrection. It’s an argument that just goes in circles.

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Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If the one true God being banned from a nation is good I wonder when we'll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society? I always see a hint of that desire in any thread that comes up on here concerning God and the Bible. So if you have a desire to see even more of throwing God out of our nation please explain to me when we'll start seeing the good in this.


So 9 hours later and no takers on my question? I don't want to argue, I just want the facts so please explain them to me.



How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.


I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.


The state of a nation, its laws and values, depends on far, far more than just people believing in God.

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Quote
I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.


And I could throw that question right back at you. When has worshipping a God, yours or any other, transformed any society into a peaceful paradise where murder and rape and violence and immorality of every type didn't exist? Answer, never. And one of the main reasons why is that despite what rules these religions write down in a book there are always easy paths to get around those rules whenever the need arises. A common Christian way to make a end run around these pesky rules is to just claim that God gave you a special exemption to do it in this particular case.

Murder is wrong but boy it sure would be nice to have that land the Canaanites are living on. And bam! What do you know God just happens to tell the Israelites at that precise moment that the Canaanites are wicked and it's okay to kill all of them and take their lands. Wow, what nice timing for the Israelites. Of course we have to just take their word that God told them this. But no problem there. I'm sure the same kind of men that could slit women and childrens throats wouldn't lie about why they were doing it. LOL!

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Believer's mindsets are clouded by delusion - delusion being defined as persistent false belief that does not change despite evidence to the contrary.…
Let’s see this “evidence” that God doesn’t exist…? Let’s see this “evidence” that Jesus didn’t exist…? Let’s see this “evidence” that Jesus wasn’t resurrected…?



You should know about absence of evidence by now. The nature of justification has been explained enough times. If there is no evidence for the existence of a Zeus, Yahweh, Allah, Brahman, etc, there is no reason to be convinced that any version of God exists. There are as many versions of God as there are believers in God.



And the foregoing, of course, is complete nonsense. The lack of evidence for the existence of Zeus is no evidence whatsoever for the non-existence of an Supreme Intelligence that created the Universe. We know the Universe had a begnnning (which Genesis also happens to posit) and we know that natural selection cannot explain the origin of life (the origin of the coded information which is a condition precedent to biological replication). We know that natural selection cannot explain the diversity of life either for that matter (for a host of reasons). No one posits that "Zeus" is the intelligence existing outside of time and matter which brought into existence time and matter but they certainly do posit the exist of a responsible Supreme Intelligence (God) and the probability His existence is as reasonable, if nor more so, than the competing inference.


You might want to educate yourself better on the facts of evolution.

And just remember there are no facts of god. Lack of our ability to explain something doesn't mean a god did it - that's just an absurd statement. May as well have been aliens or magic, with equal credibility.



It doesn't matter how many times the fallacies are pointed out, they just keep being trotted out as if nothing was said...

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Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If the one true God being banned from a nation is good I wonder when we'll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society? I always see a hint of that desire in any thread that comes up on here concerning God and the Bible. So if you have a desire to see even more of throwing God out of our nation please explain to me when we'll start seeing the good in this.


So 9 hours later and no takers on my question? I don't want to argue, I just want the facts so please explain them to me.



How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.


I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.

I've talked to lots of parents and grandparents who claimed that they lived in neighborhoods decades ago where they could leave the doors unlocked at night and when leaving the house. They wouldn't think of doing that today.
Back then, most people attended Church. There's always been sin as long as there's been people. It's just that cultural norms in the USA have changed to exclude Biblical principles of morality. I had four break-ins this fall. I believe that makes big round number ten over my lifetime.
Anybody who thinks that society moving away from biblical principles is a positive move toward decency, freedom, or prosperity is delusional.

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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If the one true God being banned from a nation is good I wonder when we'll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society? I always see a hint of that desire in any thread that comes up on here concerning God and the Bible. So if you have a desire to see even more of throwing God out of our nation please explain to me when we'll start seeing the good in this.


So 9 hours later and no takers on my question? I don't want to argue, I just want the facts so please explain them to me.



How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.


I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.


The state of a nation, its laws and values, depends on far, far more than just people believing in God.


Agreed. I have always said that if the only thing keeping a person from raping, robbing and killing people is the fear of a deity then that person is a piece of chit to start with.

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Originally Posted by Willto
Quote
I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.


And I could throw that question right back at you. When has worshipping a God, yours or any other, transformed any society into a peaceful paradise where murder and rape and violence and immorality of every type didn't exist? Answer, never. And one of the main reasons why is that despite what rules these religions write down in a book there are always easy paths to get around those rules whenever the need arises. A common Christian way to make a end run around these pesky rules is to just claim that God gave you a special exemption to do it in this particular case.

Murder is wrong but boy it sure would be nice to have that land the Canaanites are living on. And bam! What do you know God just happens to tell the Israelites at that precise moment that the Canaanites are wicked and it's okay to kill all of them and take their lands. Wow, what nice timing for the Israelites. Of course we have to just take their word that God told them this. But no problem there. I'm sure the same kind of men that could slit women and childrens throats wouldn't lie about why they were doing it. LOL!


Well put.

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Originally Posted by DBT
How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.
You are assuming that violence corresponds with immorality. You are also assuming that an atheist society would be different.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by DBT
How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.
You are assuming that violence corresponds with immorality. You are also assuming that an atheist society would be different.




Violence may arise for any number of reasons, scarcity of resources, stratification, power in the hands of a few, royalty, kings, emperors, political ideology, religious hierarchy...look at the power of the church during the middle ages.

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Originally Posted by Springcove
The show me proof argument is always humerus. Some say God doesn’t exist and prove that he does. I would say God does exist and prove that he doesn’t. It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you don’t and it really is that simple. You either believe or you don’t. This also includes Jesus and the resurrection. It’s an argument that just goes in circles.





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Didn't listen to the video. Don't know about the Majority of People. I am.

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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Springcove
The show me proof argument is always humerus. Some say God doesn’t exist and prove that he does. I would say God does exist and prove that he doesn’t. It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you don’t and it really is that simple. You either believe or you don’t. This also includes Jesus and the resurrection. It’s an argument that just goes in circles.





Word

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Faith is not a pathway to truth.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Springcove
The show me proof argument is always humerus. Some say God doesn’t exist and prove that he does. I would say God does exist and prove that he doesn’t. It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you don’t and it really is that simple. You either believe or you don’t. This also includes Jesus and the resurrection. It’s an argument that just goes in circles.





Word

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Faith is not a pathway to truth.



If that’s what you believe then that’s what you believe. It makes no difference to me. We all have to choose our own path.

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Originally Posted by Springcove
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Originally Posted by Springcove
The show me proof argument is always humerus. Some say God doesn’t exist and prove that he does. I would say God does exist and prove that he doesn’t. It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you don’t and it really is that simple. You either believe or you don’t. This also includes Jesus and the resurrection. It’s an argument that just goes in circles.





Word

🦫


Faith is not a pathway to truth.



If that’s what you believe then that’s what you believe. It makes no difference to me. We all have to choose our own path.

"Want" has nothing to do with it. Having "Faith" there's 10 billion dollars in my brokerage account wouldn't make it true.
A billion Muslim hold a faith different than yours. Do that make yours false? If not, how would your faith make their false?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Originally Posted by Springcove
The show me proof argument is always humerus. Some say God doesn’t exist and prove that he does. I would say God does exist and prove that he doesn’t. It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you don’t and it really is that simple. You either believe or you don’t. This also includes Jesus and the resurrection. It’s an argument that just goes in circles.
I am of the belief there IS a supernatural creator.

But the challenge to prove that God does not exist comes up against the rule that you cannot prove a negative.

Like how do I prove there are no Ivory Bill wood peckers.

How do I prove there is no extraterrestrial life out there.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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