Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 25-204 or 25-223 Question???

Hi to everyone, I am new to this forum, but have been on Saubier for many years.....I am kicking around a 25-204 or a 25-223. I am wondering if there is any practical advantage in using the 204 case over the 223 case? Would appreciate any thoughts from experience any of you might have on the subject.
Thanks,
Steve

Small gain in case capacity. Down side is case availability. Either way it will be a fun gun. I have a 6x45 that is one of my very favorites. Built it on a Sako L461 with limited magazine length or may have gone 25 Cal. Wanted to shoot heavy bullets for deer.

25-45 Sharps (aka 25-223) means you can buy factory ammo and brass from the Sharps Rifle Company. If you plan on only reloading, the 204 version wouldn't be a problem. I'm hoping to finish a LH AR in the Sharps this year for the boys to use.

I would like to hear any ideas on feeding either of these (25-45 sharps-25-204)through a short action 700 designed for a 223. I would like to build a 222 rem mag and shoot 70 bergers or comparable bullet. The problem I ran into with a 223 ackley is the longer bullet, when seated out where I want it, makes for a cartridge that is to long to fit into a standard 700 magazine box. I’ve shortened that little filler block in the back of the magazine box, but then the follower is to short and can lead to feeding problems. If you plan on using standard Remington 700 adl or bdl magazine boxes and followers, cartridge length will be a problem if you want to seat your bullets out further so that your not using up powder capacity. Welcome to the campfire.

I have been thinking that I will have to use the 223 case to seat the bullets out to utilize all the powder capacity is not comprimised....that said, the extra couple of grains the 204 case offers would be nice if I could seat the bullets out a good bit. Will do some experimenting with magazines and both 223 and 204 brass to see if there is any reasonable possibility of making the 204 brass work.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Steve

Also wondering what the overall cartridge length would be with 100gr bullets.....I have the HS Precision detachable bottom mags, and it looks like there are easy options to make the inside length longer. The DBM mag frames for the short action 700's are large enough for the 308 cartridge, so with a change or removal of the rear block and a longer follower, it should work.
Steve

i built a 257 Creedmoor with a 7 1/2 twist barrel shoots very well for a target rifle and i can neck down good brass like 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass. if i was you i would build maybe a 25 BR the reason is Lapua makes 6 BR brass and Lapua makes the very best brass in the world and now that you are thinking of building a 25 caliber in a smaller case that might be a better way for you to go using 6 BR brass ? matter fact i wonder if i should do that too sounds interesting a 25 BR with a 7 1/2 twist barrel ?? if you decide to do 25 BR if you use the machinist i use i would split the cost of the reamer and that machinist can have the reamer for us to use ? Whidden die company would make the reloading dies for both of us custom to your rifles chamber too. this 25 BR would be extremely accurate and you could shoot 135 gr. Berger bullets which have excellent ballistics and better ballistics than a 6 or a 6.5 bullets right now . good luck what ever you decide ,Pete53

25/204

85g-3000 fps

100g-2850

I just put together a 22/204 and a 6/204.

22/204- 55's at 3700 in a 26" 12T Real world from three different guys that shoot it, xbr 8208 is the powder. 55g Gold dots do not suck when it comes to killing hogs. Have not fired the 6/204 yet, maybe next week.

25/204 is next up.

They don't suck on deer either

250 savage works pretty good.

I've been shooting a 25-204 since 2005, it is virtually a clone of the 257 Kimber, and Gary Reeder brought it out as the 257 Raptor around 2010. Keith hit the numbers on the nose and that is from a 21" barrel, it matches the original factory ballistics of the 250-3000 and 257 Robets. It has slightly more capacity than a 25-223AI would have and with it's 30 degree shoulder feeds slick. Also case forming is a simple as running 204 brass through thru a 25-204 FL sizing die and loading. When I built mine 204 dies were hard to come by and had Hornady make me a custom FL sizing die, their 250-3000 seater works perfect.. Since then I've built a 22-204 and 6mm-204 and use a Redding Type S FL Bushing die to load the 22 / 6mm versions and have a bushing and expander to load the 25-204 with it. I will say that the Hornady elliptical expander will make brass in one pass but the Redding tapered expander will need and pass with a 6mm expander first.

Load data, I load mine to 2.41" with the 100gr due to mag constraints. Data from the 257 Kimber can be used but start low and work up.

Brass hasn't been a problem, it isn't a rifle you'd take to the prairie dog town so large quantities aren't really needed I keep 50 rounds each of 75gr(3150fps), 85gr which will be headed to AZ next month for javelina and 100gr Partitions for deer. I will say that the 75gr bullet is really heavy handed for coyotes and the only way I can save a pelt is to shoot them the long way and even then they will sometimes exit.

First deer killed with a 25-204, public land northern WI 2005, yes this was back when you could order a custom chambered barrel and a few weeks later be hunting with it.


After the work developing it and the others, there have been a lot of new cartridges introduced and I would have gone a different route. The 6.5 Grendel is only .007" larger and will fit mini actions like the CZ-527, Mini Mauser and Mini Howa and the 6.5 case has been necked to 224 (22 LBC) and 6mm(243 LBC) and you have the 22 Nosler and 6mm ARC, lots of options that weren't there in 2005. Good luck to you the 25-204 has been a pleasant journey for me.

Oh by the way you can load .257 85gr cast bullets lightly for a small game load, they are for the 25-20 and I buy them bulk 500 at a time.

Erich, thank you for that information. I measured the mags I have and can get out to 2.45" and it will work. So will not have to make any mag modifications.
Much appreciated,
Steve

Personally I gravitated towards 6mm bore, in smaller to mid-sized cases. 6TCU and many BRs. The BRs are VERY Capable.......

6's have always been extremely accurate IME, and Deadly. Many bullet options. I would look at the 6/223 and perhaps even a 6/204 if you want a small bolt face round. Nothing against 25s, the one I really would like to try, the 250 AI, had a 25-06 once, too much of a good thing you might say.

Good luck whatever you build.

Erich, what loads and velocities and accuracy did you get from the 85 and 100gr partitions?
Thanks,
Steve

If it were a semi auto I'd probably go with the 25-45 Sharps and use 5.56 brass rather than throwing expensive 204 brass in the weeds. Bolt action either one would work. I doubt you'd see enough difference in the field to notice.

I recently got my 25/222 back from PacNor. I'm just now doing load development.

Welcome to the Fire!!

Mickey Coleman built me a 25-204 on a M700 to my specs, with the help of Erich. I love it. I only load 80 Gr. TTSX and 75 Gr VMAX. 3,000 fps is plenty good for me. Feeds perfectly with the factory box and follower.

I did the old Campfire trick on the ADL mag box - remove the factory spacer and screw in some .25" aluminum bar stock. Can't remember what COL I'm loading, but it gives me plenty.

I also have a 6mm/223 (Steelhead here had it built by IT&D) and love it equally. Not sure of the velocity, but I only load 105 AMAX and it has the same mag box mod.

Here's my thread from long ago with COL info and also die set info (257 Raptor from Gary Reeder). Since this thread, the bolt was sent to Kampfeld for fluting and a campfire bolt knob, and it now wears a McMillan Edge ADL stock.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/7763044/re-el-guapo-25-204-complete