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Why are you bothered so much by what other people believe…? Why are you bothered so much by what other people believe…really…?


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Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If the one true God being banned from a nation is good I wonder when we'll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society? I always see a hint of that desire in any thread that comes up on here concerning God and the Bible. So if you have a desire to see even more of throwing God out of our nation please explain to me when we'll start seeing the good in this.
So 9 hours later and no takers on my question? I don't want to argue, I just want the facts so please explain them to me.
How can God be banned from our nation…? He doesn’t live in courthouses and public schools and capitol buildings. He lives in the hearts of His followers. A way bigger question to me is, If the one true God lives in the hearts of His followers, I wonder when we’ll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society…? Instead of passing the buck, why don’t His followers simply ‘live’ according to Jesus’ greatest command…? Why don’t they simply ‘live’ according to the Law of Christ…? If the over 205 million ‘Christians’ in America simply and truly did that, it would change the country…we would see the fruits of it improving our society…we would see the good in it.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Faith is not a pathway to truth.
But truth is a pathway to faith.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by DBT
How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.
You are assuming that violence corresponds with immorality. You are also assuming that an atheist society would be different.
Across the board as populations become less religion measures of well being improve.
If we look at per capita income, the more atheist a country the higher per capita income after controlling for human capital, resources, education, geography etc.
I don't know what that has to do with violence, but you have a purely materialistic view of well being.

I haven't seen the study you are citing, so it's hard for me to criticize it, but you could apply the same overlay of geography and come up with nearly identical results.


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If the one true God being banned from a nation is good I wonder when we'll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society? I always see a hint of that desire in any thread that comes up on here concerning God and the Bible. So if you have a desire to see even more of throwing God out of our nation please explain to me when we'll start seeing the good in this.


So 9 hours later and no takers on my question? I don't want to argue, I just want the facts so please explain them to me.



How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.


I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.


The state of a nation, its laws and values, depends on far, far more than just people believing in God.


John Adams and others in his day differ with that statement.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
You still have failed to show evidence that a Godless nation is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Faith is not a pathway to truth.
I disagree with that. Wholeheartedly. Faith is the pathway to knowing the truth about Jesus. I did my own soul searching and my own research. And I’d encourage others to do the same if there’s any interest there. And I found that only when I had a completely honest and personal relationship with Him that it became unquestionably real and true. And faith was the pathway that took me there. I found that there’s something to be said for knowing that truth, and being set free by it.


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It looks like atheists and agnostics are interested in the beliefs that challenge their own. However, few took time to listen to
the original audio/video that was originally posted on YouTube by an atheist who challenged my Christian brother Matt.

There was an atheist named Josh who wrote a book that details his Evidence That Demands a Verdict. His story is here.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Springcove
The show me proof argument is always humerus. Some say God doesn’t exist and prove that he does. I would say God does exist and prove that he doesn’t. It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you don’t and it really is that simple. You either believe or you don’t. This also includes Jesus and the resurrection. It’s an argument that just goes in circles.
I am of the belief there IS a supernatural creator.

But the challenge to prove that God does not exist comes up against the rule that you cannot prove a negative.

Like how do I prove there are no Ivory Bill wood peckers.

How do I prove there is no extraterrestrial life out there.

And that's why the burden of proof lies with the one making the positive claim.



Well, there is evidence for the existence of God all around us. You either reject it or don’t see it.

Also, as it has been posted before, when the Creator comes to abide “within” the believer, that believer indeed has “proof.”

But, you apparently don’t see and you apparently “don’t have.”

Still, you comment above piques some interest. You state “…. the burden of proof lies with the one making the positive “claim.”….

I think this is nothing but word bafflegab. You may believe that Christians are making a “claim,” but I see it as Christians providing a testimony or witness of our experience.

But, you choose you words carefully and there is one interesting way to look at your post.

Should you be judged….. by a God you claim has not proved His existence….. this God, at your judgment may “play the video tape” of your life and show you literally dozens of times He made His presence known to you…. Only to have you somehow reject the witness.

No one can “argue” you into belief….. Only God can “get you to flip.” I wonder how many times the Spirit has knocked on your door, but you refused to answer the knock. You will say that that has never happened. I would expect that God will show you He knocked dozens of times when the tape rolls.


The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Creation and the flood of the bible are proved false by evidence that verifies explanation otherwise. If you choose to not accept these parts of the bible then that's a good sign of start of rational thought. Fact remains that you still can't prove existance of a god.


Your info about proving the flood is dated. The more currant info seems to indicate the layers were laid down in quick succession. Consider the evidence provided by Mt. St. Hellens. The folded rock formations around the world. The volcanic action studied in the Grand Canyon.


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Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Springcove
The show me proof argument is always humerus. Some say God doesn’t exist and prove that he does. I would say God does exist and prove that he doesn’t. It all comes down to faith. You either have it or you don’t and it really is that simple. You either believe or you don’t. This also includes Jesus and the resurrection. It’s an argument that just goes in circles.
I am of the belief there IS a supernatural creator.

But the challenge to prove that God does not exist comes up against the rule that you cannot prove a negative.

Like how do I prove there are no Ivory Bill wood peckers.

How do I prove there is no extraterrestrial life out there.

And that's why the burden of proof lies with the one making the positive claim.



Well, there is evidence for the existence of God all around us. You either reject it or don’t see it.

Also, as it has been posted before, when the Creator comes to abide “within” the believer, that believer indeed has “proof.”

But, you apparently don’t see and you apparently “don’t have.”

Still, you comment above piques some interest. You state “…. the burden of proof lies with the one making the positive “claim.”….

I think this is nothing but word bafflegab. You may believe that Christians are making a “claim,” but I see it as Christians providing a testimony or witness of our experience.

But, you choose you words carefully and there is one interesting way to look at your post.

Should you be judged….. by a God you claim has not proved His existence….. this God, at your judgment may “play the video tape” of your life and show you literally dozens of times He made His presence known to you…. Only to have you somehow reject the witness.

No one can “argue” you into belief….. Only God can “get you to flip.” I wonder how many times the Spirit has knocked on your door, but you refused to answer the knock. You will say that that has never happened. I would expect that God will show you He knocked dozens of times when the tape rolls.

Well said TF.
I thought I was the only one who used that Tom Baker term. LoL!

The atheists choose to believe what they will in spite of the overabundance of creation that cries out daily, "There IS a Creator....look at me!".
I think that the religion of atheistic secularism that started with my first library book at age five had something to do with shaping my beliefs with the children's version of Darwin's most popular book. The dinosaur books and church of Evolutionism that I was sent to daily makes me wonder how I was ever able to choose to place my faith in Christ. However, it is all a choice we have been given when presented with those facts about the Savior. Hopefully there are more eyes that see and ears to hear on this forum and in our neighborhoods.

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2 Timothy 2:23-26

"But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will."

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Originally Posted by Ringman
2 Timothy 2:23-26

"But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged, with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will."

Yes, that's exactly what I did when I posted this thread.
Matt's discussion with the atheist was so civil, that it was the atheist he spoke to who put it on YouTube for the world to hear. However, anyone who listened to it should be convinced of one thing. You know what that is no doubt.

My recent follow up was the story of a former atheist who had misplaced bitterness against God, blaming Him for what a Reprobate did to him as a child.

Audio book intro:

https://christianaudio.com/evidence...ell-and-josh-mcdowell-audiobook-download

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GET YOUR BULLHORN YET?


LOL


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You haven't heard anything yet.

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Peeker and a liar.


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Is Billy Graham still in Hell?


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Crappy Hamper is saved!

6/17/20 – HC survives being poisoned by his "girlfriend".
"Good news is that it had a happy ending because I survived. I came within an inch of my life as organ failure set in. I'm grateful that God miraculously brought a vision of charcoal to my mind and where to find it. Then he gave me enough strength to drag myself off my back, get to it and eat it before dying. It absorbed the poison she put in the food and I recovered."


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Originally Posted by NVhntr
Crappy Hamper is saved!

6/17/20 – HC survives being poisoned by his "girlfriend".
"Good news is that it had a happy ending because I survived. I came within an inch of my life as organ failure set in. I'm grateful that God miraculously brought a vision of charcoal to my mind and where to find it. Then he gave me enough strength to drag myself off my back, get to it and eat it before dying. It absorbed the poison she put in the food and I recovered."


Personally, I'm glad he survived.


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Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Jim1611
Originally Posted by Jim1611
If the one true God being banned from a nation is good I wonder when we'll start seeing the fruits of it improving our society? I always see a hint of that desire in any thread that comes up on here concerning God and the Bible. So if you have a desire to see even more of throwing God out of our nation please explain to me when we'll start seeing the good in this.


So 9 hours later and no takers on my question? I don't want to argue, I just want the facts so please explain them to me.



How many cultures and societies have believed in gods, a creator, supernatural entities, etc, yet were violent? History has many examples.


I asked the question for the proof of taking God out of our country, the USA. So show me the proof it's working. I'm not interested in other places and times. Just here and now. This also goes beyond violence too. More like a moral decay which covers allot. Proof, not questions to me, that's what I want.


The state of a nation, its laws and values, depends on far, far more than just people believing in God.


John Adams and others in his day differ with that statement.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
You still have failed to show evidence that a Godless nation is a good thing.


You only need to look at history to see that belief in God or gods is not an indicator of peace and harmony. Human behaviour is driven by more than just a belief in God. I mentioned the dark ages and the power of the church.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Faith is not a pathway to truth.
But truth is a pathway to faith.


How is that logical?

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