Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer - Elk Cartridges Question

If he tried it, he may throw his 308 in the weeds..

Didn't do a thing to stop the Romans I guess...my bad...

That’s because they didn’t have Nosler Partitions back in Jesus’ day.

"If you knew for a fact that you would end up in that situation, you'd want all the gun you could get - likely something in the .458 to .577 range. Since no one knows what the future holds and you have to carry the thing and likely want some reach as well as a stopper, something like a light .375 is a reasonable compromise."

Now lb is up to the .577 bore. lol

This.

I congratulate LB on amending his assertion that anybody hunting elk in grizzly country should carry a "stopping rifle," which Bob defines as some sort of .375. He amended that to anybody hunting in grizzly country, which is the logical extension of his first remark.

However, he still hasn't answered my question about whether he's ever used a .375 on big game. Since we're all here to learn, that might be useful information.

I have some field experience with both the .375 H&H and Ruger in both North America and Africa, totally over 70 big game animals, ranging in size from around 100 pounds to 1500. Around 80% of those animals were taken by me, and the others by companions I was standing next to. One thing that surprises folks who've never used a .375 H&H or Ruper is they they don't automatically crumple animals, even with fatal shots. In fact, have seen a 100-pound African springbok travel 100 yards after taking a .375 bullet right behind both shoulders, which left an exit hole about the size of a softball. Before the ram fell it never even showed any indication of being hit. The range was about 100 yards.

Have also seen plenty of much bigger game do the same thing. In fact, am trying to recollect an animal that wasn't hit in the central nervous system by a .375 dropping at the shot. It may have happened, but not very often. Have seen 500-pound gemsbok shot through the shoulders with .375 bullets that still managed to go quite a ways before falling.

Might also mention that I've taken around 20% of my big game animals in grizzly country, including Alaska, those portions of Idaho and Montana that have grizzlies (which these days basically means the western half of Montana), the Canadian provinces Alberta and British Columbia, and Northwest and Nunavut Territories. The animals included those we might expect in grizzly country, but also more whitetails than any others, because a lot of prime whitetail country in western Montana is also prime grizzly country.

Other animals include over half my caribou, along with mule deer, elk, black bears, moose, musk ox, bighorn sheep and yes, one grizzly bear. Haven't see grizzlies on all those hunts, but have often seen fresh sign, and on several have seen anything from one to over a dozen bears. Have also had close encounters with several, including the British Columbia bear described earlier that tried to horn in on a bull moose I'd just killed, and a sow and cub very interested in a couple of caribou my hunting partner and I had just killed in the Northwest Territories.

Also in the NWT, once packed out a caribou through an area where a sow and two cubs had been seen earlier the same day. Half expected to encounter them, but didn't. On Kodiak Island was charged twice in one morning by sows with cubs, but both times the cubs, after some confusion, skedaddled to mommy, who decided she was only bluffing. Oh, have twice been followed by grizzlies, both younger bears that were probably curious. One of those occasions was the only time any shots were fired--by my companion at the bear's feet, to scare him off. He didn't scare--but eventually grew weary of the noise and wandered away.

The two things I did do were to remain very aware of being in grizzly country, and having my rifle in my hands when there was any possibility of a close encounter, especially when traveling through close cover, or recovering a freshly-killed big game animal even in wide-open country.

So, All chest Thumping and mutual disparagement aside, did we establish what the minimum acceptable Stopping Caliber is for an enraged charging Black Bear ?

Hypothetically, a 308 Win works for me, 7/08 might be a little light without perfect placement.
6.5 CM is lighter still.

Anyone care to extrapolate for Polar Bear ? 340 Bee has some reach
With Global Warming, they are expanding their territory Southward

I have zero experience with requiring a stopping rifle but imagine that deep reliable penetration & the ability to place the shot under pressure makes the smaller cartridges at least equally effective as the perceived need for something beyond medium bore.

My Grizzly & Bear experience: I have flyfished Alaska 3x and have seen & been around grizzlies every time. Often we have to back off a riffle or break off a fish cuz they moved in. Hunted elk & mule deer in Wyomings grizzly country many times but have never run into one. Black bears are more common but they seem to be on the run away from me unless they are hitting my trash cans at home.

Amazing how a topic on elk cartridges turns into one on bear stopping.

This is what the road to nowhere must be like.

For Koala, I think a 17hmr would do the job but I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 22lr

Hagel’s words about selecting cartridges for when things go wrong, very wrong, apply here

I live in grizzly country and would pick my 06' over a .458 or .577 every day of the week because I can shoot the 06' better and am able to make quicker (and accurate) follow up shots without concern with flinch.

And as far as elk cartridges go, my stepfather shot elk for over 35 years with a .270 before switching to .300 WBY. and continuing on for another 10 years. I witnessed kills between the two and they all died the same...and the first 65 elk were killed with the .270 shooting factory Rem. Bronze points.

I killed my first elk with a 300 savage, followed with .270 and 30.06 for the rest. I may try some trick shooting and switch over to the antique 6.5x55, risking life and limb whilst hunting in big bear country just for the fun of it.

Yup. Very first animal I ever took with the H&H was a warthog at 200 yards with a 270 gr. SAF. I kinda expected it to do somersaults in the air like a PD (the PH knew better), but boy, was I surprised when that tough bugger took the hit, ran off, and crashed 50 yards later with a big 'ol exit hole in 'em. That was my beginning education in African game...

I assume you're referring to Mark Uptain. That was a bad deal, in 2018.

You do realize though that they hunted in the heart of Wyoming's grizzly country, and the outfitter he worked for and many other nearby outfitters had promoted (and still do) .270/.30-06 class rounds, with most any decently constructed bullet for their elk hunters, right?

“Stopping power”…. 😂😂
capture screen

Ironically given the nature of the dust up about “stopping rifles”, I would bet a 30/06 with a high velocity and somewhat softer bullet would have put that warthog down quick. Say a 165 SGK going 2900 fps.

Not around the campfire of fools with foul mouths and no manners...LOL!

It seems they will type things they would not say in person to another man’s face. I try not to get caught up in the word slinging, but this is over the top. We have a professional who spends his valuable time answering our dumb ass questions. That crap is rude and uncalled for.

Pastor of my dad's church in Anchor Point, when he lived there was hunting deer on Kodiak with a .243, when a bear charged. The bear ran over him as he fell backwards. Somehow he ended up on his knees with the rifle in hand. It had been slung over his shoulder. One shot dropped the bear. I don't recall where he hit it. But, on that day the .243 was a stopping rifle. I believe the story appeared in Alaska Magazine as told to Jim Reardon. IIRC.