Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Predator/Prey study in the blues..

Yeah, looks like kitty cat population problem.

Pulling Washington DFW numbers offa the internet, a male cat is expected to kill a deer every 9-12 days and female with kittens will kill as often as every 4 days. That's a hell of a lot of deer.

I think there is a solution. Add incentive for hunters to target cats by offering one deer tag or one elk tag per cat they kill in the unit they "take" the cat from. Yes, it is 1 lost deer or 1 lost elk, but that's a gain of 25+ animals that cat would have killed in the same year. They could do that selectively so that only units that are less than .. say 75%, as a random number .. of the deer or elk management objective are included in the "program."

Tom

Black bear predation on elk calves was studied extensively in the Clearwater region in the 1970's, by Idaho F&G biologist, Mike Schlegel. That was when game biologists had to actually be in the field.... He found that black bears can hit elk calves hard for about the first 6 weeks of life and after that, there is hardly any predation at all from bears. The first two weeks of life is where black bears get most of them. In the Clearwater, range conditions and snow pack kept calving elk and bears in close proximity. He called it the perfect "predator pit" His study is interesting reading. Current biologists have tried to tear down the study and not place the blame directly on bears or any predator for that matter.

Schlegel's study also removed and relocated some bears just to see if that would ease the predation. Even though some bears were moved well over a 100 miles away, they still came back to the same vicinity where they were captured. When they did lower bear numbers, elk calf survival increased, but it was a short term thing and eventually bear predation went back up.

Lions kill elk calves year round so I can see why bear predation is just a fraction of lion kills in the stats listed above. Even when elk calves are up and moving well they are likely to do something dumb and lions really like to key in on certain animals. And elk-calf sized critter makes an easy target. Even a 5-6 month old calf would still be just the right size for a lion to kill. An elk calf less than a week or two old would be an easy target for anything that bites and is over 10 lbs.

Might be the place we went, but many years ago I hunted in the Blues with some friends from Moscow. They were regulars at it. What a zoo . But that's what you get when your camping spot can be driven to. Much worse than the Steese Hwy 40-mile caribou hunt up here, now. I saw dozens of coyotes, hundreds of "hunters"- many of them drunk, with atrocious gun-handling even sober, and 5 cow elk, a long ways away, in a flat outpanic run....

I was most definately negatively impressed and said "Ef this!" Never went back.

I don't know why my friends even went there, as they had horses and were good elk hunters, usually going up in the Clearwater and Selway-Bitterroot areas, back in.

Now that I have vented for no good reason...


No cats up here. Bears are the major predators on moose calves under 2-weeks? two months? old, and one study showed they accounted for 70% of all first year rmortalities, I believe here on the Kenai Peninsula. Been awhile since I've studied up on moose.

As to a bobcat taking small calves, I don't doubt it, tho I know little about bobcats. I'm sure a lynx could do it - even a moose calf, if mom didn't stomp it to cat litter, first.

In fact, one wide-eyed guy once told me how just hours before he had seen a golden eagle kill a moose calf - probably just hours old, I'm guessing. The eagle came in hard from behind and nailed the calf in the back of the head with clenched claws. Done deal - circled around, landed back on the calf, and started feeding.

Good luck on getting your cat problem,/predation under control. You are going to need it, being all liberal pussified. So to speak.

In the late 70's I hunted the Blues coming in from Troy and hunting the Washington side. Went in a couple times on horses with an outfitter named Slim Stucker. I was hunting deer and never did hunt elk in the Blues. Lots of elk and some buster deer.
Sorry to hear that the populations are on the slide. It was a wonderful place to hunt. Good memories.

Las , do you recall the nearest town to the area you’re describing?

There is a reason our forefathers killed the piss out of 4 legged predators and got those 2 legged feathery tree perching predators thinned down pretty good.

A guy I know knew where there was a coyote den in an old dozer pile and put a game cam up on it. What he saw throughout that summer was 27 fawns brought in to the pups.

Chew on that for a bit, 1 litter of coyote pups and 27 dead deer.

Those larger predators you all are talking about would be absolute hell on deer and elk.

When you have groups like BHA in bed with millionaire anti predator hunters, it’s a bleak outlook.

Ya, I know, “it’s for the greater good”. Famous last words.

Don Peay was discussion in another thread and wonder how the BHA minions are going to feel when Land pulls the same exit stage left after he’s bilked it for what it’s worth.

LOL.

Bear hunting sub-forum on LRHunting had this contact information post for Washington State to voice your opinions on re-opening a spring bear hunt.
The anti-hunters don't sit idle, nor should we.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/contact

When you move to central Idaho you'll see its a bit tougher getting in the back country than Arkansas especially in winter.

Blues used to be great elk hunting. It was spike or cow archery season. Never drew the bull tag for that unit.
in 2004 I had 4 big bulls screaming at me when I was cow calling a spike in. . All within a 100 yards, one came running in tearing up trees. Used to be a great herd and tons of bulls in the blues. I hunted by the ski area, What a shame WDFW did to the game herds in WA.

wolves, cats and especially the Indians put a real hurt on that herd.

Sent this even though I don't live there, made up an address in walla walla, Washington 99362 . It's for the children, amen.

Ungulate populations are dropping in Washington State, you are in charge of Conservation, why would you not open a spring bear season?
It goes without saying that Bears kill hordes of newborn calves and fawns.
Please stick to a scientific method of Conservation and allow Bear numbers to be kept in check, along with wolves and cougars.
Thank you , Mike

Must be talkin about bluewood ribka? Shag and I camped there for a couple weeks last spring. Love that country. Always a big bull or 2 around bluewood, brushy bastard.





That’s at the snow park right below bluewood

Chase mtn lookin over to newby mtn.

Jud, If it weren't for the hundreds of drunken hunters that would be a real nice camp..

Haha they were everywhere!! 😂

Ribka,
I lived in Meridian, Idaho in 07-08,hunted/camped north of there, Stanley, east of Cascade, others places of coarse. Yep nothing like haunting back east, just got to wear out some boots to get where you want to go.

Did you Trap?
I plan on doing some trapping, public and private land.

Judman,

Great pictures looks like a great spot.

TOM,

Great idea in the free tag for taking a lion.

I've been drunk but not when hunting game, hunt'n in a Bar - yeah.

The blues currently have the largest wolf pack in the state of Washington right now working on the elk and cattle populations. Been very hard on both. The game dept will come and look at the kills and will hymn and ha and say it could be a wolf kill. Only problem they can't talk their way out of the game camera pictures of the wolf pulling the calf down. Bears are the most plentiful I have ever seen them in my life time and there are countless pictures of cougar everywhere from peoples yard to their barns. The game dept is currently run by a bunch of liberal biologist that think hunters have no place in the mountains. But what do I know. I am just a hick from the sticks.

Read an article a while back about lefties getting lefties in high positions in Fish/Game Departments across the country. They in turn promote left leaning Biologist, left leaning everybody.
According to the article, this has been going on for 20+ years.

Article reminded me of a guy I knew in Idaho, who named some pro-wolf employees at the fish and game dept., back in 07-08-09. He said the Forest Service [federal agency] was full of them.

Liberal bunny huggers have homesteaded many agencies and stuck around and risen to leadership positions where they can influence and implement policy. Good news for wolves and other predators; not so much for game and sportsmen. Just saying…