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I have no problem with evolution.

I absolutely believe that the world and life on this earth are God's creation, and I believe that evolution was a very clever way that God used to achieve His creative objectives. I see no incompatibilities between science and spirituality. None. I see science as a source of spirituality.


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Originally Posted by antlers
I have no problem with evolution.

I absolutely believe that the world and life on this earth are God's creation, and I believe that evolution was a very clever way that God used to achieve His creative objectives. I see no incompatibilities between science and spirituality. None. I see science as a source of spirituality.



Great. Then show me the proof of this god and we can wrap this up all on the same side.

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I choose to believe what I do. And you choose to believe what you do, despite your assertion that you have “actual evidence” that you clearly don’t have. The ‘only’ one in this particular discourse between you and I who has mentioned “evidence” for God’s existence has been you. Clearly.


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Originally Posted by antlers
None. I see science as a source of spirituality.




You got proof of "spirituality"? What is "spirituality" anyway?


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by antlers
I choose to believe what I do. And you choose to believe what you do, despite your assertion that you have “actual evidence” that you clearly don’t have. The ‘only’ one in this particular discourse between you and I who has mentioned “evidence” for God’s existence has been you. Clearly.


Can you choose not to believe whatever it is you do believe is true? Being convinced of the truth, are you able to just switch your conviction off as a matter of choice?

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Originally Posted by antlers
I choose to believe what I do. And you choose to believe what you do, despite your assertion that you have “actual evidence” that you clearly don’t have. The ‘only’ one in this particular discourse between you and I who has mentioned “evidence” for God’s existence has been you. Clearly.


I have never said that I have evidence of the origin of the universe. You are a consistent liar on that claim which doesn't seem to jibe with the whole Christian restriction on bearing false witness. But hey, when have Christians ever abided by their own rules.

I said I base my opinions on evidense not fairytale stories. My official opinion on the ultimate begining of the universe is (as stated before) I DON'T KNOW because there is no definitive evidence in that area. But why on earth would we fill the inevitable gaps in our scientific knowledge with made up fairytales for which there is no evidence at all. Where is the logic in that?



Last edited by Willto; 01/07/22.
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Life clearly didn't need a creator otherwise there would be clear evidence of a creator. Existance of a creator needs to be proved before any evidence can be claimed against him/her/it.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Opinions and beliefs are both decisions that someone thinks is true. And you’ve voiced a lot of yours in this discourse, but you’ve provided zero “actual evidence” at all upon which you claim to base your opinions…which again, are simply beliefs by another name. I have no problem with your beliefs.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Opinions and beliefs are both decisions that someone thinks is true. And you’ve voiced a lot of yours on this thread, but you’ve provided zero “actual evidence” at all upon which you claim to base your opinions…which again, are simply beliefs by another name. I have no problem with you beliefs.


Where is the evidence you base your beliefs on? Or do you admit they are based on nothing.

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And keep in mind you are the one claiming a god exists. It is therefore not incumbent apon me to prove he doesn't but rather your task to show me the evidence that he does.

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People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive. And then they go looking for reasons to substantiate their belief. This applies to one’s ‘rejection of’ the existence of God (as you appear to have), as well as one’s ‘belief in’ the existence of God (which I definitely do have).


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You don't understand science and project your ignorance as a shared mindset of everyone else.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Quote
People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.


So you just like the story and decided to believe it despite a lack of any evidence to support it. Okay.


Ultimately I don't give a chit what you want to believe. You can nail the bumper bracket from a 73 Volvo to your wall; light candles under it; and sacrifice a chicken to it every day for all I care. But if you enter a conversation where you are going to try and chit on science for the gaps in it's understanding of the universe while on the other hand believing in a deity for which there is no evidence at all, then yeah I will push back.

Last edited by Willto; 01/07/22.
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Originally Posted by antlers
People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive. And then they go looking for reasons to substantiate their belief. This applies to one’s ‘rejection of’ the existence of God (as you appear to have), as well as one’s ‘belief in’ the existence of God (which I definitely do have).


A lack of conviction in the existence of a God is justified by an absence of evidence for the existence of a God.

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Originally Posted by antlers
People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.
Originally Posted by Willto
So you just like the story and decided to believe it despite a lack of any evidence to support it. Okay. Ultimately I don't give a chit what you want to believe. You can nail the bumper bracket from a 73 Volvo to your wall; light candles under it; and sacrifice a chicken to it every day for all I care.
We see things differently. That’s OK with me. I’m not bothered by your beliefs.
Originally Posted by Willto
But if you enter a conversation where you are going to try and chit on science for the gaps in it's understanding of the universe while on the other hand believing in a deity for which there is no evidence at all, then yeah I will push back.
I’m OK with what you choose to believe. I disagree with your beliefs on this matter, especially the highlighted part of your comment above…I don’t feel that way at all…but if you choose to see it that way, it’s OK with me.


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Originally Posted by antlers
People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive. And then they go looking for reasons to substantiate their belief. This applies to one’s ‘rejection of’ the existence of God (as you appear to have), as well as one’s ‘belief in’ the existence of God (which I definitely do have).


Bam!


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Have we got this matter settled yet?


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by Hastings
Have we got this matter settled yet?


Don't know. Apparently Billy Graham and everyone else like him are roasting right now.


So..no. Apparently hardly anyone is or has been saved.


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Originally Posted by Hastings
Have we got this matter settled yet?



Um no… Apparently we’re at scuttling one’s beliefs so we can all be on the same side. Some of us are ok with you not believing in God, Jesus Christ and the resurrection but the ones who don’t believe in such things are not ok with our beliefs.

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Originally Posted by Springcove
Originally Posted by Hastings
Have we got this matter settled yet?

Um no… Apparently we’re at scuttling one’s beliefs so we can all be on the same side. Some of us are ok with you not believing in God, Jesus Christ and the resurrection but the ones who don’t believe in such things are not ok with our beliefs.
I'm not atheist, and I believe Jesus was the agent of the supernatural creator.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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