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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Nope, it never happened. There's evidence of populations of people living elsewhere around the world before and after the time of the alledged flood event. Geological evidence dismisses a global flood event.

The people who wrote the bible didn't know that so got caught out on that lie too. The biblical tale of creation is also fiction.


Your ignorant prejudice is obvious when you talk about time lines.


Where's your evidence to support your accusation?

No evidence that man was even ever globally wiped out, let alone by a mega-flood that never happened.


Because you don't accept evidence in no way lets you off the hook.



I make my statements based on the plethora of evidence and peer reviewed science. Just because you choose to be ignorant you can't just accuse everyone else of the same.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by antlers
As opposed to “you guys” pointing out that life on earth and all of creation can come from nothing, but then exempting God from that same logic.



We're not saying it came from nothing, we say we don't know yet. You say it was a creator and then don't (can't) provide any evidence. The former position is accurate and honest, the latter is dishonest - asserting something to be true without knowing it to be true.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Tyrone
If you believe in an uncaused cause, you believe in God.

False Dichotomy. There are other possibilities, the universe may be cyclic, a part of a multiverse, etc, etc....it is not known.
We don't know.
We don't know, therefore God, is not an argument.
Would you at least say the super natural is a possibility?
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by antlers
As opposed to “you guys” pointing out that life on earth and all of creation can come from nothing, but then exempting God from that same logic.
We're not saying it came from nothing, we say we don't know yet. You say it was a creator and then don't (can't) provide any evidence. The former position is accurate and honest, the latter is dishonest - asserting something to be true without knowing it to be true.
In your mind is the concept of a creator a possibility?


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by antlers
If you choose to believe that first life emerged from no life with no help, then so be it. If you choose to believe that you go from lifeless matter to the digital elegance of DNA without a Creator, then so be it.


DNA is not digital, it's a chain of nucleotides, which are organic.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by antlers
As opposed to “you guys” pointing out that life on earth and all of creation can come from nothing, but then exempting God from that same logic.
We're not saying it came from nothing, we say we don't know yet. You say it was a creator and then don't (can't) provide any evidence. The former position is accurate and honest, the latter is dishonest - asserting something to be true without knowing it to be true.
In your mind is the concept of a creator a possibility?


An intelligent creator - no.

Mono- or poly- creator/s as represented by the writings of any religion - hell no.

But other than that, unless clear, demonstrable, unequivocal proof comes to light, consideration is not really warranted since it's only speculation (just like I don't give any consideration to magic or ghosts etc). The possibilities that can be generated are endless, and meaningless unless true - except for entertainment value I suppose.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by antlers
Then post up that “actual evidence” that shapes your opinion that first life emerged from no life with no help, and that it’s gone from lifeless matter to the complexity of DNA without a Creator. Post up those “facts” that you follow that leads you to your opinion that first life emerged from no life with no help, and that it’s gone from lifeless matter to the complexity of DNA without a Creator. Show us how a creator-less creation is ‘substantiated.’


Here you go:

https://www.amazon.com/Miller-Levine-Biology-Level-Student/dp/0133669513/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2F285MRE7XJ3P&keywords=kenneth+miller+biology&qid=1641603315&sprefix=kenneth+miller%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-1


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by antlers
If you choose to believe that first life emerged from no life with no help, then so be it. If you choose to believe that you go from lifeless matter to the digital elegance of DNA without a Creator, then so be it.
DNA is not digital, it's a chain of nucleotides, which are organic.
The discovery of the structure of DNA transformed biology profoundly, catalysing the sequencing of the human genome and engendering a new view of biology as an information science. Two features of DNA structure account for much of its remarkable impact on science: its digital nature and its complementarity, whereby one strand of the helix binds perfectly with its partner. DNA has two types of digital information--the genes that encode proteins, which are the molecular machines of life, and the gene regulatory networks that specify the behaviour of the genes.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12540920/


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Originally Posted by antlers
No. I simply want you to provide the “actual evidence” and “facts” that you said existed, specifically the ones that substantiate that everything came into being without a creator.

And while you’re at it, go ahead and show where I ever said I had “hard factual evidence” of God’s existence.


Are you saying you don't have “hard factual evidence” of God’s existence?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Willto
Originally Posted by antlers
Then post up that “actual evidence” that shapes your opinion that first life emerged from no life with no help, and that it’s gone from lifeless matter to the complexity of DNA without a Creator. Post up those “facts” that you follow that leads you to your opinion that you’ve made clear on this thread regarding this matter.



So you want me to copy and paste 100 years of scientific research into this thread. And do it in such a way that even your simple science denying ass can understand it. I can post some links to good reads for you if you like. And oh yeah. While I am getting ready to post them please reciprocate by posting the hard factual evidence of your specific god's existence.


It's no use - he repeatedly, flippantly dismisses the evidence, and likes the gaps so he can claim "therefore god" even without a thread of supporting evidence for his case. An honest person sees the gaps and says "I don't know". This delusion is common to believers. I really can't understand why people can be so dishonest with themselves - they otherwise appear normal in the more mundane tasks of daily life. You know, they will stop at red traffic lights and avoid running with sissors - their faith doesn't extend beyond common sense in these instances at least.


Because he wants the afterlife. He can't bear the thought the life is fleeting, and when it ends so does his existence.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by antlers
No. I simply want you to provide the “actual evidence” and “facts” that you said existed, specifically the ones that substantiate that everything came into being without a creator. And while you’re at it, go ahead and show where I ever said I had “hard factual evidence” of God’s existence.
Are you saying you don't have “hard factual evidence” of God’s existence?
I choose to believe what I do.

Do you have “hard factual evidence” of God’s non-existence…?


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Originally Posted by Willto
Originally Posted by antlers
I choose to believe what I do. And you choose to believe what you do, despite your assertion that you have “actual evidence” that you clearly don’t have. The ‘only’ one in this particular discourse between you and I who has mentioned “evidence” for God’s existence has been you. Clearly.


I have never said that I have evidence of the origin of the universe. You are a consistent liar on that claim which doesn't seem to jibe with the whole Christian restriction on bearing false witness. But hey, when have Christians ever abided by their own rules.

I said I base my opinions on evidense not fairytale stories. My official opinion on the ultimate begining of the universe is (as stated before) I DON'T KNOW because there is no definitive evidence in that area. But why on earth would we fill the inevitable gaps in our scientific knowledge with made up fairytales for which there is no evidence at all. Where is the logic in that?


The 10 Commandments are part of the Old Testament Law. Antlers believes Jesus death on the cross abolished the law and it no longer applies to Christians.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Because he wants the afterlife. He can't bear the thought that life is fleeting, and when it ends so does his existence.
I believe that following Jesus has as much or more to do with this life as it does the next.


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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by Hastings
If the ocean suddenly broke through the strait between mainland Turkey and Europe and inundated thousands of square miles you can bet the same thing happened other places all over the world. I would imagine people living close to the original beach had boats on which some survived. I'm not believing the Alps, Himalayas, Rockies, etc. went under water. You don't believe that, do you?

Those mountains didn't exist prior to the Flood. Even secular geologist recognize they are uplifted.

Well, yes, the mountains are uplifting even now. How long ago was the flood? How old are those mountains? If every piece of ice on earth melted do you think water would have covered the mountains as they were 5000, 10,000, or 12,000 years ago? Mount Ararat is almost 17,000 feet above sea level. Was it flat land back then?

Flood was about 5,000 -6,000 years ago. Due to tides and current beyond our present understanding the earth would have been pretty much planed to almost smooth. Any graduate student or serious student of geology knows if the earth was smoothed out, water would be about two miles deep.
I didn't know that. I was lucky to graduate high school.


That's because it's not true. Ringman gets his "science" from Young Earth Creationist sites such as Answers in Genesis.
As a High School graduate, you are actually more educated than Ringman who only has a GED, and never graduated High School.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 01/07/22.

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Originally Posted by antlers
I choose to believe what I do.
Do you have “hard factual evidence” of God’s non-existence…?
I believe there is a creator also.
But once again, proving a negative is not something that can done. At least with this subject it cannot.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
If you believe in a highest good, you believe in God.
If you believe in truth, you believe in God.
If you believe in transcendent beauty, you believe in God.

Is that worthy of worship? Should we worship this?


Not true.
You can believe in all those things without believing in supernatural beings.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by antlers
I choose to believe what I do.
Do you have “hard factual evidence” of God’s non-existence…?
I believe there is a creator also. But once again, proving a negative is not something that can done. At least with this subject it cannot.
If you can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that certain things don't exist, then the claim is just false. We prove the nonexistence of things on a regular basis.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/believing-bull/201109/you-can-prove-negative?amp


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Originally Posted by Hastings
I read that the universe is 13.8 billion years old and was formed when gravity or something pulled all matter into such a dense mass that something had to give and we had the mother of a nuclear type of an explosion. Young earth folks say against all evidence that creation was like 5,000 years ago and earth was created and populated in 7 days. I am not atheist but sticking to that 5000 year story doesn't wash. I believe a lot of these 5,000 year creationists cause a lot of thinking people to shake their heads and walk off.


In order to believe the Bible is perfect in every factual detail, a 6,000 to 10,000 year old earth is required. Once you no longer believe the age of the earth as portrayed in the Bible is wrong it opens up the question to how much more of it is wrong. Additionally, if the God inspired Bible is wrong about this, God is not all knowing, with brings into question all other attributes attributed to him in the Bible.

From there, it get's worse for Christians. No literal creation story, not Adam and Eve. No Adam and Eve no original Sin. Without Original Sin there's no need for the Crucifixion, and Reresection, without which there's no pathway to Heaven and an eternity in Happily Ever After Land.

So, without a young earth, there's no trip to Disney Land.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Tyrone
If you believe in an uncaused cause, you believe in God.

False Dichotomy. There are other possibilities, the universe may be cyclic, a part of a multiverse, etc, etc....it is not known.
We don't know.
We don't know, therefore God, is not an argument.
Would you at least say the super natural is a possibility?
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by antlers
As opposed to “you guys” pointing out that life on earth and all of creation can come from nothing, but then exempting God from that same logic.
We're not saying it came from nothing, we say we don't know yet. You say it was a creator and then don't (can't) provide any evidence. The former position is accurate and honest, the latter is dishonest - asserting something to be true without knowing it to be true.
In your mind is the concept of a creator a possibility?


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The time to consider super natural causes or Creators is when extraordinary evidence leads in that direction.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Honest question. It seems to bother some of you that people have faith why?

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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by antlers
No. I simply want you to provide the “actual evidence” and “facts” that you said existed, specifically the ones that substantiate that everything came into being without a creator. And while you’re at it, go ahead and show where I ever said I had “hard factual evidence” of God’s existence.
Are you saying you don't have “hard factual evidence” of God’s existence?
I choose to believe what I do.

Do you have “hard factual evidence” of God’s non-existence…?


How about a straight answer?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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