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Such an article does not exist because science is clueless as too how true abiogenesis can happen in a materialist narrative.


And you cannot provide any evidence as to how a god could originate from nothing. You scoff at the notion of the universe coming from nothing or always existing in some form but on the other hand totally embrace the notion that a god could have always been or came from nothing. Seems a bit of a double standard.

And since it's obvious that you haven't read all of this thread I will repeat something I said earlier. There are 4000 recognized religions on the planet Earth. Each with their own god and creation story. Please provide the evidence you used to home in on which one of them actually created the universe.

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Originally Posted by Willto
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Such an article does not exist because science is clueless as too how true abiogenesis can happen in a materialist narrative.


And you cannot provide any evidence as to how a god could originate from nothing. You scoff at the notion of the universe coming from nothing or always existing in some form but on the other hand totally embrace the notion that a god could have always been or came from nothing. Seems a bit of a double standard.

And since it's obvious that you haven't read all of this thread I will repeat something I said earlier. There are 4000 recognized religions on the planet Earth. Each with their own god and creation story. Please provide the evidence you used to home in on which one of them actually created the universe.

You are right about "we don't know" and there are a bunch of religions. But a whole lot of those religions and their beliefs are fairly harmonious as to creation and morals if we could just get them to stop killing each other over perceived differences. Of course the killing is most often egged on by evil leaders using religion for cover.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
If you are really interested in the question, and not just trying to suggest "We don't know, therefore God", here's an interesting article on the subject:

https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/which-came-first-chicken-or-egg
That is an interesting article. It does explain that eggs came first. But it doesn't explain the bridge between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction, namely, eggs and seeds.


The evolutionary diversion leading to plants and animals happened a long time ago. There is no subsequent link between the two - natural selection favored those changes that provided a survival benefit given the environmental circumstances. You can look to compare similarities or differences between the two but there is no link between them, apart from a common source a long time ago.

You misunderstand again.
How did plants "evolve" from asexual reproduction to seeding? Species at the time of said change is irrelevant.
How did animals "evolve" from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction via eggs? Species at the time of said change is irrelevant.



Stop asking questions Tyrone. Don't you know we're supposed to accept it on faith! Truth is, scientists don't have a clue nor do they have a clue how material, inorganic matter became alive. They have nothing but hand-waving.


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Truth is, scientists don't have a clue nor do they have a clue how material, inorganic matter became alive. They have nothing but hand-waving.


So whenever there is a gap in what science knows we should fill those gaps with a story written on scrolls by superstitious goat herders 2000 years ago who thought the earth was flat. Got it.

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Of course I’m saved, I’m Catholic. 😎


Back in the heartland, Thank God!



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Originally Posted by Violator22
Of course I’m saved, I’m Catholic. 😎

Welcome Violator22!
I'm glad you have interest in spiritual matters. The local Catholic church just reminded me that it's noon as the big liberty bell rang in the tower.

Isaiah 61:1

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Originally Posted by Willto
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The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


You obviously haven't read this thread as this has already been addressed several times. The non religious participants here have made no such claim about the origin of the universe. We have consistently said that we don't know how it originally came to be. Neither do you. But you are the ones claiming to KNOW how it started despite having no evidence to support that claim.

A materialist rejects God. Science has already settled the creation of the Universe as an event. Therefore the only possible option is for a materialist is to have faith in ex nihilo, ergo my statement is absolutely correct. Atheism is faith based. Just because empty words about "not knowing" are said makes no difference. If a materialist truly did not know then they would allow for God as an option. They don't.

You have obviously not read what I posted i other threads. I have shown clear evidence for the creation of the universe in the past via a supernatural means.

"Kalam Cosmological Argument" is a start, but I'm sure it will be ignored because it is not convenient for faith filled atheists to consider seriously.

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Jesus last words on the subject at hand: Revelation 22:12 "and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his WORK shall be." 14 "Blessed are they that do his COMMANDMENTS, that they have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city (eternal life)".

"straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life and FEW there be that find it"

This is why you obsessively reject Paul's witness. You believe in a works based religion.

Paul taught what Christ and Peter taught. Salvation through faith and not by works.

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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Hastings
Jesus last words on the subject at hand: Revelation 22:12 "and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his WORK shall be." 14 "Blessed are they that do his COMMANDMENTS, that they have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city (eternal life)".

"straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life and FEW there be that find it"

This is why you obsessively reject Paul's witness. You believe in a works based religion.

Paul taught what Christ and Peter taught. Salvation through faith and not by works.

Amen

He has yet to answer Jesus' plan of salvation where He took the first half of John 3 to explain it simply to a devout Jew who trusted his obedience to the works of the law to be saved.

Summery:

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Believing/ faith is the absence of any works.

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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Hastings
Jesus last words on the subject at hand: Revelation 22:12 "and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his WORK shall be." 14 "Blessed are they that do his COMMANDMENTS, that they have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city (eternal life)".

"straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life and FEW there be that find it"

This is why you obsessively reject Paul's witness. You believe in a works based religion.

Paul taught what Christ and Peter taught. Salvation through faith and not by works.

Maybe so. But Jesus is quoted as saying exactly what I posted and clearly stated the law would stand as long as heaven and earth endure. And you know that.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Willto
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The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


You obviously haven't read this thread as this has already been addressed several times. The non religious participants here have made no such claim about the origin of the universe. We have consistently said that we don't know how it originally came to be. Neither do you. But you are the ones claiming to KNOW how it started despite having no evidence to support that claim.

A materialist rejects God. Science has already settled the creation of the Universe as an event. Therefore the only possible option is for a materialist is to have faith in ex nihilo, ergo my statement is absolutely correct. Atheism is faith based. Just because empty words about "not knowing" are said makes no difference. If a materialist truly did not know then they would allow for God as an option. They don't.

You have obviously not read what I posted i other threads. I have shown clear evidence for the creation of the universe in the past via a supernatural means.

"Kalam Cosmological Argument" is a start, but I'm sure it will be ignored because it is not convenient for faith filled atheists to consider seriously.


No what you are is the type who tries to frame the other persons case for them and does it incorrectly on purpose to leave himself a weak point to attack. Sorry but your third grade level debate tactic is glaringly transparent. I say "I Don't Know" when there is insufficient evidence to state something as a fact. So does science. I do not falsely claim to know something by making up a story and just CHOOSING to believe it. And I am wide open to listen to evidence of God. The problem is that none exists beyond generalistic and flawed observations like "Well all this had to come from somewhere, so therefore GOD". Or some "I FEEL IT" nonsense. Passionate belief is meaningless as a guide to the truth. People have been passionately wrong about thousands of things throughout history.

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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Nobody is being forced to read or participate. Those who do can provide their own arguments in the expectation that their claims will be questioned.

Religious claims are problematic because they are faith based. Faith based beliefs, by definition, cannot be tested objectively.

The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


That's not the atheist claim. That's your claim on behalf of atheists.

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Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
If you are really interested in the question, and not just trying to suggest "We don't know, therefore God", here's an interesting article on the subject:

https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/which-came-first-chicken-or-egg
That is an interesting article. It does explain that eggs came first. But it doesn't explain the bridge between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction, namely, eggs and seeds.


The evolutionary diversion leading to plants and animals happened a long time ago. There is no subsequent link between the two - natural selection favored those changes that provided a survival benefit given the environmental circumstances. You can look to compare similarities or differences between the two but there is no link between them, apart from a common source a long time ago.

You misunderstand again.
How did plants "evolve" from asexual reproduction to seeding? Species at the time of said change is irrelevant.
How did animals "evolve" from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction via eggs? Species at the time of said change is irrelevant.



Stop asking questions Tyrone. Don't you know we're supposed to accept it on faith! Truth is, scientists don't have a clue nor do they have a clue how material, inorganic matter became alive. They have nothing but hand-waving.


God did it is hand waving. We don't know, God did it. We don't understand, its the work of God. How did that happen, God works in mysterious ways. How did the Universe come about, God spoke and the Universe appeared.....

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Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
If you are really interested in the question, and not just trying to suggest "We don't know, therefore God", here's an interesting article on the subject:

https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/which-came-first-chicken-or-egg
That is an interesting article. It does explain that eggs came first. But it doesn't explain the bridge between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction, namely, eggs and seeds.


The evolutionary diversion leading to plants and animals happened a long time ago. There is no subsequent link between the two - natural selection favored those changes that provided a survival benefit given the environmental circumstances. You can look to compare similarities or differences between the two but there is no link between them, apart from a common source a long time ago.

You misunderstand again.
How did plants "evolve" from asexual reproduction to seeding? Species at the time of said change is irrelevant.
How did animals "evolve" from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction via eggs? Species at the time of said change is irrelevant.



Stop asking questions Tyrone. Don't you know we're supposed to accept it on faith! Truth is, scientists don't have a clue nor do they have a clue how material, inorganic matter became alive. They have nothing but hand-waving.


God did it is hand waving. We don't know, God did it. We don't understand, its the work of God. How did that happen, God works in mysterious ways. How did the Universe come about, God spoke and the Universe appeared.....
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Willto
Quote
The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


You obviously haven't read this thread as this has already been addressed several times. The non religious participants here have made no such claim about the origin of the universe. We have consistently said that we don't know how it originally came to be. Neither do you. But you are the ones claiming to KNOW how it started despite having no evidence to support that claim.

A materialist rejects God. Science has already settled the creation of the Universe as an event. Therefore the only possible option is for a materialist is to have faith in ex nihilo, ergo my statement is absolutely correct. Atheism is faith based. Just because empty words about "not knowing" are said makes no difference. If a materialist truly did not know then they would allow for God as an option. They don't.

You have obviously not read what I posted i other threads. I have shown clear evidence for the creation of the universe in the past via a supernatural means.

"Kalam Cosmological Argument" is a start, but I'm sure it will be ignored because it is not convenient for faith filled atheists to consider seriously.


When did science settle Creation by a Creator as an event?

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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Nobody is being forced to read or participate. Those who do can provide their own arguments in the expectation that their claims will be questioned.

Religious claims are problematic because they are faith based. Faith based beliefs, by definition, cannot be tested objectively.

The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


That's not the atheist claim. That's your claim on behalf of atheists.

bullshit

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Hastings
Jesus last words on the subject at hand: Revelation 22:12 "and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his WORK shall be." 14 "Blessed are they that do his COMMANDMENTS, that they have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city (eternal life)".

"straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leadeth unto life and FEW there be that find it"

This is why you obsessively reject Paul's witness. You believe in a works based religion.

Paul taught what Christ and Peter taught. Salvation through faith and not by works.

Maybe so. But Jesus is quoted as saying exactly what I posted and clearly stated the law would stand as long as heaven and earth endure. And you know that.

God requires us to read the entire Scripture. Not snippets. Christ taught faith based salvation. He also taught that His followers should worship Him as God because He is God. Jesus is not some angle. Christ is not created.

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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Nobody is being forced to read or participate. Those who do can provide their own arguments in the expectation that their claims will be questioned.

Religious claims are problematic because they are faith based. Faith based beliefs, by definition, cannot be tested objectively.

The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


That's not the atheist claim. That's your claim on behalf of atheists.

bullshit


You made a false claim. Saying 'bullshit' doesn't prove your claim.
You presume to speak on behalf of atheists.

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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Willto
Quote
The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


You obviously haven't read this thread as this has already been addressed several times. The non religious participants here have made no such claim about the origin of the universe. We have consistently said that we don't know how it originally came to be. Neither do you. But you are the ones claiming to KNOW how it started despite having no evidence to support that claim.

A materialist rejects God. Science has already settled the creation of the Universe as an event. Therefore the only possible option is for a materialist is to have faith in ex nihilo, ergo my statement is absolutely correct. Atheism is faith based. Just because empty words about "not knowing" are said makes no difference. If a materialist truly did not know then they would allow for God as an option. They don't.

You have obviously not read what I posted i other threads. I have shown clear evidence for the creation of the universe in the past via a supernatural means.

"Kalam Cosmological Argument" is a start, but I'm sure it will be ignored because it is not convenient for faith filled atheists to consider seriously.


When did science settle Creation by a Creator as an event?
[/quote]
Science settled the creation event. Science cannot settle how the event occurred since science before the event is not possible.

Metaphysics offers logical sound arguments for that event having been initiated by a sentient Creator.

It is wrong to think science can answer all questions.

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