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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Willto
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The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


You obviously haven't read this thread as this has already been addressed several times. The non religious participants here have made no such claim about the origin of the universe. We have consistently said that we don't know how it originally came to be. Neither do you. But you are the ones claiming to KNOW how it started despite having no evidence to support that claim.

A materialist rejects God. Science has already settled the creation of the Universe as an event. Therefore the only possible option is for a materialist is to have faith in ex nihilo, ergo my statement is absolutely correct. Atheism is faith based. Just because empty words about "not knowing" are said makes no difference. If a materialist truly did not know then they would allow for God as an option. They don't.

You have obviously not read what I posted i other threads. I have shown clear evidence for the creation of the universe in the past via a supernatural means.

"Kalam Cosmological Argument" is a start, but I'm sure it will be ignored because it is not convenient for faith filled atheists to consider seriously.


When did science settle Creation by a Creator as an event?

Science settled the creation event. Science cannot settle how the event occurred since science before the event is not possible.

Metaphysics offers logical sound arguments for that event having been initiated by a sentient Creator.

It is wrong to think science can answer all questions.

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Originally Posted by Violator22
Of course I’m saved, I’m Catholic. 😎

Hey, Les great to see you post, this happy camper is another lee 24 and a nut.


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Nobody is being forced to read or participate. Those who do can provide their own arguments in the expectation that their claims will be questioned.

Religious claims are problematic because they are faith based. Faith based beliefs, by definition, cannot be tested objectively.

The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


That's not the atheist claim. That's your claim on behalf of atheists.

bullshit


You made a false claim. Saying 'bullshit' doesn't prove your claim.
You presume to speak on behalf of atheists.

It says you spoke bullshit when you made your claim.

I spoke to my claim when I responded to willto. I used reason. You just spoke.

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As much as these “Are you saved” threads that pop up or continue on indefinitely. One could muse that most who post on them are needing saving 3-4 times a day...sans, Antlers.

SMH

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Originally Posted by Violator22
Of course I’m saved, I’m Catholic. 😎

Hey, Les great to see you post, this happy camper is another lee 24 and a nut.


God bless Texas-----------------------
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Originally Posted by Willto
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Such an article does not exist because science is clueless as too how true abiogenesis can happen in a materialist narrative.


And you cannot provide any evidence as to how a god could originate from nothing. You scoff at the notion of the universe coming from nothing or always existing in some form but on the other hand totally embrace the notion that a god could have always been or came from nothing. Seems a bit of a double standard.

And since it's obvious that you haven't read all of this thread I will repeat something I said earlier. There are 4000 recognized religions on the planet Earth. Each with their own god and creation story. Please provide the evidence you used to home in on which one of them actually created the universe.

God did not originate. That is why he is called God. He is called the first cause. Google it. How many religious variations there are says nothing about abiogenisis. Science is unable to answer the most fundamental question of science.

Dawkins was an intellectual lightweight.. You should not read his words if you want to gain knowledge. Science will never explain abiogeneisis because the evidence consistently gets stronger and stronger that it is impossible. If scicen had any thing to say about it then internet atheists would say something about it. They never do.


Last edited by OldHat; 01/10/22.
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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Nobody is being forced to read or participate. Those who do can provide their own arguments in the expectation that their claims will be questioned.

Religious claims are problematic because they are faith based. Faith based beliefs, by definition, cannot be tested objectively.

The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


That's not the atheist claim. That's your claim on behalf of atheists.

bullshit


You made a false claim. Saying 'bullshit' doesn't prove your claim.
You presume to speak on behalf of atheists.

It says you spoke bullshit when you made your claim.

I spoke to my claim when I responded to willto. I used reason. You just spoke.







Sorry but you do not possess the power to change reality just by making a false claim. Although believers such as yourself do often engage in that sort of magical thinking.

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Quote
God did not originate. That is why he is called God.


Which one of the 4000 gods is that? What evidence do you have to narrow it down to a specific god of one religion?

And why is god excluded from the need to have a start or a creation? Just because it shields you from having to explain how god came into being from nothing? LOL! That's convenient. Believers just yank these rules out of their ass and try to force you to accept them as absolute. They are not.


Last edited by Willto; 01/10/22.
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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Willto
Quote
The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


You obviously haven't read this thread as this has already been addressed several times. The non religious participants here have made no such claim about the origin of the universe. We have consistently said that we don't know how it originally came to be. Neither do you. But you are the ones claiming to KNOW how it started despite having no evidence to support that claim.

A materialist rejects God. Science has already settled the creation of the Universe as an event. Therefore the only possible option is for a materialist is to have faith in ex nihilo, ergo my statement is absolutely correct. Atheism is faith based. Just because empty words about "not knowing" are said makes no difference. If a materialist truly did not know then they would allow for God as an option. They don't.

You have obviously not read what I posted i other threads. I have shown clear evidence for the creation of the universe in the past via a supernatural means.

"Kalam Cosmological Argument" is a start, but I'm sure it will be ignored because it is not convenient for faith filled atheists to consider seriously.


When did science settle Creation by a Creator as an event?

Science settled the creation event. Science cannot settle how the event occurred since science before the event is not possible.

Metaphysics offers logical sound arguments for that event having been initiated by a sentient Creator.

It is wrong to think science can answer all questions.
[/quote]


Your wording - creation event - is designed to imply a creator. The big bang does not need a creator as an explanation, just physics.

It is not known whether time had a beginning, or what set off the BB.

We don't know, therefore God, is not an argument.

We don't understand, therefore God must have done it....is a poor rationale.

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It's easier for some to believe artificial intelligence in some super computer with self adaptive learning could eventually take over the world in our realm of reality than to consider God similarly evolving. Astronomers know there is more out there than we can observe, possibly ever. Such daunting mystery obviously cannot disprove the existence of Omnipotence, the incomprehensible sublime. Some say aliens visit us from deep space by bending time to overcome distance, techniques we scoff at. Earth is 4,5 billion years old. Humanity, even in crude form, much younger. Geology tells fantastic tales of creation far more complex than Genesis with no mention of enormous fossilized creatures roaming a human free planet long before Jesus, Moses, Mohamed, Budda or Rumi. Jews are the chosen people. Muslims jihad against all infidels while Christians, the biggest bullies of all, have killed more of their own fellow believers over doctrinal differences than any pagans ever did; until forming the disunited states of America where the Baptists, and Anglicans and Catholics, in their separate states, could peacefully coexist in mutual disgust of the wild Irish and sour Germans without killing each other over who's going to heaven. Now we got Haitians, Somalians, Afghans, and Central Americanos, and rigged voting machines. O, Lost!

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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Nobody is being forced to read or participate. Those who do can provide their own arguments in the expectation that their claims will be questioned.

Religious claims are problematic because they are faith based. Faith based beliefs, by definition, cannot be tested objectively.

The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


That's not the atheist claim. That's your claim on behalf of atheists.

bullshit


You made a false claim. Saying 'bullshit' doesn't prove your claim.
You presume to speak on behalf of atheists.

It says you spoke bullshit when you made your claim.

I spoke to my claim when I responded to willto. I used reason. You just spoke.







You make baseless claims, then accuse your opponent of bullshit, all the while being unaware of the irony of your tactics.

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Organized religion is man-made and you don't need it to have faith, and be saved, It's the biggest money-making scam of all time. All you need is faith.


God bless Texas-----------------------
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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
If you are really interested in the question, and not just trying to suggest "We don't know, therefore God", here's an interesting article on the subject:

https://www.science.org.au/curious/earth-environment/which-came-first-chicken-or-egg
That is an interesting article. It does explain that eggs came first. But it doesn't explain the bridge between asexual reproduction and sexual reproduction, namely, eggs and seeds.


The evolutionary diversion leading to plants and animals happened a long time ago. There is no subsequent link between the two - natural selection favored those changes that provided a survival benefit given the environmental circumstances. You can look to compare similarities or differences between the two but there is no link between them, apart from a common source a long time ago.

You misunderstand again.
How did plants "evolve" from asexual reproduction to seeding? Species at the time of said change is irrelevant.
How did animals "evolve" from asexual reproduction to sexual reproduction via eggs? Species at the time of said change is irrelevant.


You"ll have to research that yourself but that change happened a long time ago with organisms that aren't around today and would be otherwise unrecognisable to us. My point being that using a modern day chicken to peruse variations of that magnitude is not applcable.

I think that you are looking for a magical "hey presto" answer but it's likely more complicated than that. Mutations happen quickly but sometimes there needs to be a series of successful mutations before a characteristic forms, more so with a more complex organism. If I recall correctlysomething like 99% of the species that ever evolved are extinct, due to ongoing changes, competition etc. Evolution is still ongoing.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by NH K9
Originally Posted by the_shootist
I always get a charge out of non believers accusing believers of shoving the truths of the Bible down their throats. The easiest way to avoid that is o close your mouth and open your ears and your hearts.

Jesus Christ is a well known historical fact being recorded in even secular encyclopedia if anyone cares to read something written on paper any more.

What about Believers who don't want to hear folks like HC spewing their bullschitt?


I'm a believer Shootist.
I haven't seen a non-believer here state that the Bible was being shoved down their throat. Do you have a link to that post?
Plenty of debate here which is healthy, serves to lead one to either strengthen their beliefs or question them.
Christianity covers a wide spectrum of beliefs, not just the rigid judgmental dogma dished out by the Happy Camper types.




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Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by Willto
Quote
The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


You obviously haven't read this thread as this has already been addressed several times. The non religious participants here have made no such claim about the origin of the universe. We have consistently said that we don't know how it originally came to be. Neither do you. But you are the ones claiming to KNOW how it started despite having no evidence to support that claim.

A materialist rejects God. Science has already settled the creation of the Universe as an event. Therefore the only possible option is for a materialist is to have faith in ex nihilo, ergo my statement is absolutely correct. Atheism is faith based. Just because empty words about "not knowing" are said makes no difference. If a materialist truly did not know then they would allow for God as an option. They don't.

You have obviously not read what I posted i other threads. I have shown clear evidence for the creation of the universe in the past via a supernatural means.

"Kalam Cosmological Argument" is a start, but I'm sure it will be ignored because it is not convenient for faith filled atheists to consider seriously.


When did science settle Creation by a Creator as an event?

Science settled the creation event. Science cannot settle how the event occurred since science before the event is not possible.

Metaphysics offers logical sound arguments for that event having been initiated by a sentient Creator.

It is wrong to think science can answer all questions.


I haven't seen the last few pages of responses but suspect yours are all similar to the above and are just plain wrong. You don't understand science, evidence or logic, and makes for some sloppy arguements from yourself.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by Happy_Camper
Originally Posted by Violator22
Of course I’m saved, I’m Catholic. 😎

Welcome Violator22!
I'm glad you have interest in spiritual matters. The local Catholic church just reminded me that it's noon as the big liberty bell rang in the tower.

Isaiah 61:1


Happy Camper has said some pretty nasty things about the Catholic Church here Violator22. But he's being nice because he's really hard up for anyone who will listen to him presently.


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Originally Posted by wabigoon
[Linked Image from azquotes.com]


Happy Camper says that Billy Graham is in Hell.


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I posted that, did I not.


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
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Originally Posted by NVhntr
Happy Camper has said some pretty nasty things about the Catholic Church here Violator22. But he's being nice because he's really hard up for anyone who will listen to him presently.
Happy Camper will come around to the truth that is the Catholic Church when he figures out why Jesus, with the ability to read hearts, made Judas an Apostle.


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Originally Posted by wabigoon
I posted that, did I not.


Yes Wabi, you posted it and I added my comment.
You do recall Happy Camper posting the sermon declaring Billy Graham is in Hell don't you?


Let's Go Brandon! FJB
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