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Originally Posted by Happy_Camper

NV, Stx and others try their hardest to push unbelievers and believers alike away from the Lord. (That is a blatant lie, which is expected of you as you have proven countless times here that you are a pathological lier. If anyone doubts that they can check out the Happy Camper, Renaissance Man? thread and make up their own mind regarding your credibility. You are the focus of the push back, not religion, not Christ, not the Bible, just you Happy Camper) Just check out my past Sunday posts where there's been interest. They aren't sharing the good news. They hate the messages. Because they know that's not popular with Christians here, they lie and say, "It's not the messages that we keep trolling on Sunday after Sunday, it's just you. (Wrong and you know it. It is in fact you. Name anyone else here who receives the derision you get and deserve.) Look at my signature.... that's me he keeps kicking at. Check out the Christian and atheist debate at the OP, that's me.

You know as well as the other Christians that you are welcome to contact me anytime PM and I am happy to help you with anything I can. Interesting how you always want to take it to PMs so you are shielded from the push back. You don't want anyone to know how you operate)

Happy Camper





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Just for schyts and giggles
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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
IQ and education are inversely related to religiosity. Old Hat's a prime example of this.
A/S: You wound me. Your words are sharper than a serpents tooth. I do lack formal education but never thought of myself as stupid or low IQ. I understand you directed this at Old Hat, and even though he and I seriously disagree I'm not atheist. I actually believe religion could be beneficial if we realized that most of them are parallel on matters of morals and organization of society. For the life of me I can't understand why Muslims, Christians, Hindus, and Hebrews are all at each others throats. With burnings, inquisitions, Witch trials, ethnic cleansing, genocide, beheadings, crashing planes into buildings, caste systems, and social stratification that religion promotes I can see where God gets a bad name to the casual observer. I sure understand the Hindu leader Gandhi saying I like Jesus, It's his followers I don't like.

Hastings my friend, you may be religious, but on a scale of religiosity, you are no where close to the Happy Campers, Old Hats and Young Earth Creationist like our very own Ringman.

You see the contradictions in the Bible, and as a result have a more nuanced interpretation then the example I gave above. The same can be said for Antlers own Christianity. Keep in mind, correlations are just indicative, not determinative. There are plenty of outlawyers on both sides of that equation. But in general, the lower a persons IQ, the less educated and more agreeable the person the easier it is to swindle them into believing BS.

You are far from the fundamentalist religion drones who believe everything just because it's written in their old book. Your welcome to sit an my fire and drink my rum anytime.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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NV,

Who made you God???
Why do you demand like some super narcissistic communist dictator to read everyone's private mail or messages???

I have and will continue using the private message feature as it was intended when Rick set these forums up for the benefit of others.
You have absolutely NO business demanding to know who or what I talk about you delusional tin horn forum dictator want-a-be.

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Hastings,
Please consider my previous comment in this context:

Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Not all religions/belief systems are created equal, nor are all Christianities.

A good majority of Christians in America today are what I call functional Atheist. They claim to believe, don't really know what's in their bible, go to Chruch for weddings and funerals and focus on solving this world problems in this world, and don't unquestionably based their actions on dubiously sourced ancient parchments, and attempt to force other to conform to the same belief their at the point of a gun by trying to pass laws based on their old book. When debating, these are not the Christians I'm looking for, and I suspect you fall squarely in this camp. Dont' get me wrong, I'll still debate you for fun, to see if you have new or cleaver apologetics I've never head and to hone my skills, but you are not the droid I'm looking for.

When we study the impacts of religion against measures of well being, the evidence is crystal clear. The more fundamentalist the beliefs the worst the outcomes. It really doesn't matter what you measure, income per capita, teen pregnancy rates, rates of imprisonment, life expectancy, educational attainment, across the board, greater levels of fundamentalism lead to worse outcomes.

These are the believer's I'm looking for. Those who's beliefs are so wrong they impact the greater world in a negative way. I don't limit myself to Christians Fundamentalist's. I'm also opposed to Marxist, Muslim, Global Warming Alarmist, Hindu, Shinto, and Jainist Fundamentalist, we just don't have may of those of The Fire, so our religious debates typically revolve around Christianity.


Additionally, fundamentalist creates a viscous cycle. When fundamentalist fail they attribute their failure to an insufficient level of fundamentalism.
Put another way, fundamentalism leads to bad outs, bad out comes for fundamentalist leads to greater levels of fundamentalism, which lead to worse outcomes, and more fundamentalism etc. To better understand this in action, I suggest you read Lawrence Wrights "The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11".


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Where did I claim to be God?
Where did I demand to read your PMs?
You can continue operating however you would like, and I will do the same.
Commenting on how you operate is not demanding to know what you are talking about. Are you really that dense.........never mind.

I've been meaning to ask you if there are any other jobs we need to add to your resume Leonardo.


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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Hastings,
Please consider my previous comment in this context:

Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Not all religions/belief systems are created equal, nor are all Christianities.

A good majority of Christians in America today are what I call functional Atheist. They claim to believe, don't really know what's in their bible, go to Chruch for weddings and funerals and focus on solving this world problems in this world, and don't unquestionably based their actions on dubiously sourced ancient parchments, and attempt to force other to conform to the same belief their at the point of a gun by trying to pass laws based on their old book. When debating, these are not the Christians I'm looking for, and I suspect you fall squarely in this camp. Dont' get me wrong, I'll still debate you for fun, to see if you have new or cleaver apologetics I've never head and to hone my skills, but you are not the droid I'm looking for.

When we study the impacts of religion against measures of well being, the evidence is crystal clear. The more fundamentalist the beliefs the worst the outcomes. It really doesn't matter what you measure, income per capita, teen pregnancy rates, rates of imprisonment, life expectancy, educational attainment, across the board, greater levels of fundamentalism lead to worse outcomes.

These are the believer's I'm looking for. Those who's beliefs are so wrong they impact the greater world in a negative way. I don't limit myself to Christians Fundamentalist's. I'm also opposed to Marxist, Muslim, Global Warming Alarmist, Hindu, Shinto, and Jainist Fundamentalist, we just don't have may of those of The Fire, so our religious debates typically revolve around Christianity.


Additionally, fundamentalist creates a viscous cycle. When fundamentalist fail they attribute their failure to an insufficient level of fundamentalism.
Put another way, fundamentalism leads to bad outs, bad out comes for fundamentalist leads to greater levels of fundamentalism, which lead to worse outcomes, and more fundamentalism etc. To better understand this in action, I suggest you read Lawrence Wrights "The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11".


I was joking with you. You and I don't agree with everything but I value your input on a variety of subjects. I suspect you and I could be good friends.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by NVhntr
Where did I claim to be God?
Where did I demand to read your PMs?
You can continue operating however you would like, and I will do the same.
Commenting on how you operate is not demanding to know what you are talking about. Are you really that dense.........never mind.

I've been meaning to ask you if there are any other jobs we need to add to your resume Leonardo.



Leonardo...I though he was one of the swaggarts?


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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A/S: The part of my post chastising you was in jest. I doubt you think I'm stupid. Now the end of my post was serious about the various religions being mixed up in the evil schemes of the world.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by NVhntr
Where did I claim to be God?
Where did I demand to read your PMs?
You can continue operating however you would like, and I will do the same.
Commenting on how you operate is not demanding to know what you are talking about. Are you really that dense.........never mind.

I've been meaning to ask you if there are any other jobs we need to add to your resume Leonardo.



Leonardo...I though he was one of the swaggarts?

I listen to Jimmy Swaggart for entertainment sometimes and his beautiful and pleasant wife Frances. Their preaching would fit right in with our zealots.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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Originally Posted by JSTUART
Originally Posted by NVhntr
Where did I claim to be God?
Where did I demand to read your PMs?
You can continue operating however you would like, and I will do the same.
Commenting on how you operate is not demanding to know what you are talking about. Are you really that dense.........never mind.

I've been meaning to ask you if there are any other jobs we need to add to your resume Leonardo.



Leonardo...I though he was one of the swaggarts?


Check out the Happy Camper, Renaissance Man?.

Happy Camper, Renaissance Man?


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Originally Posted by Hastings
A/S: The part of my post chastising you was in jest. I doubt you think I'm stupid. Now the end of my post was serious about the various religions being mixed up in the evil schemes of the world.


Good to hear. We sure could use a sarcasm and I'll messing with you font.

I'm not so sure all the evil we attribute to religion are just or deserved, especially as it pertains to warfare.

The vast majority of war are fought for economic reasons and economic boundaries closely follow ethnic and religious boundaries. As an example, the Crusades to the east were billed religious wars, when in reality they over trade routes. Part of what makes the "Holy Lands" holy is they are the end of the southern fork of the Silk Road and the gateway to the Mediterranean. In calling for one of the Crusades the Pope references his inability to obtain silk from China for his papal robes.

The slaughter in Rwanda was preached from the Pulpit of Catholic Church under the guise of religious religious reason, much like those in the Slaughter of the Midianites, but that was just the excuse employed by the majority to slaughter a minority with better more productive lands. I could go on for days, but you get the point.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper


Good to hear. We sure could use a sarcasm and I'll messing with you font.

I'm not so sure all the evil we attribute to religion are just or deserved, especially as it pertains to warfare.

The vast majority of war are fought for economic reasons and economic boundaries closely follow ethnic and religious boundaries. As an example, the Crusades to the east were billed religious wars, when in reality they over trade routes. Part of what makes the "Holy Lands" holy is they are the end of the southern fork of the Silk Road and the gateway to the Mediterranean. In calling for one of the Crusades the Pope references his inability to obtain silk from China for his papal robes.

The slaughter in Rwanda was preached from the Pulpit of Catholic Church under the guise of religious religious reason, much like those in the Slaughter of the Midianites, but that was just the excuse employed by the majority to slaughter a minority with better more productive lands. I could go on for days, but you get the point.




From my observations I would postulate that it is always without exception poor men dying for rich men's assets.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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I believe that Jesus was God in a bod, and that He’s as close as we’ll ever get to understanding God while we’re on this earth.


Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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It's hard to determine what exactly happened a week ago, yet alone two thousand years based on a collection of works written decades after the described event. The ancients wanted to believe, they searched for signs and wonders, they sought miracle workers, they sought hope.......

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The Christian faith doesn’t require Jesus’ followers to look away from suffering, injustice, and cruelty. I’m compelled to look TOWARD these things. Not only at these things that were caused by those who professed to be Christians, but also at these things that were caused by those who professed NOT to be Christians. ‘Christians’ who did/do these things were/are acting of their own accord. Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians commanded to do these things. Ever.

Unlike the instances in the Old Testament, where the Hebrews are actually commanded by God to carry out genocide and “not to let a soul remain alive”, which they appeared to do enthusiastically. There are other times when the Hebrews took it upon themselves to commit genocide, even against their own.

There’s plenty of killin’ and sufferin’ and cruelty to go around.


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When Paul, who was a Jew, was standing in the synagogue in Antioch, surrounded by other Jews, he made a point that was crystal clear to them; and it was undoubtedly offensive to some, as it is today. He said that he wanted them to know that the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed through Jesus. And that everyone who believes through Him is set free from their sins; they receive a justification that they clearly were not able to obtain under the Law of Moses.

Translation = Jesus did what the Law of Moses couldn’t.


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by OldHat

The atheist belief that the universe was created from nothing(ex nihilo) is a faith based claim.


That's not the atheist claim. That's your claim on behalf of atheists.

bullshit


You made a false claim. Saying 'bullshit' doesn't prove your claim.
You presume to speak on behalf of atheists.

It says you spoke bullshit when you made your claim.

I spoke to my claim when I responded to willto. I used reason. You just spoke.



You make baseless claims, then accuse your opponent of bullshit, all the while being unaware of the irony of your tactics.


How is the Kalam Cosmological argument wrong?


Plenty of reasons, basically;

What it should say but doesn't;
1. Everything that begins to exist has both an efficient and material cause of its existence.

2. The universe began to exist.

3. Therefore, the universe has both an efficient and material cause of its existence.

"So there you have it, the evidence in support of the first premise of the Kalam Cosmological Argument. Two lines of reasoning that support the idea of the universe having both a material and efficient cause, and a complete non sequitur that falsely equates something with nothing and asks us to cherry pick which aspects of causality we consider to be metaphysical in nature. Of course the argument does have a second premise...''

https://www.cambridgeskeptics.org.uk/post/arguments-against-the-kalam-cosmological-argument

No where is something equated with nothing. That is why you just cut and paste and the sentence is so short. It's bald.

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Odin has a guarantee.

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Originally Posted by nathanial
Odin has a guarantee.

For hell.

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