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Originally Posted by T_Inman
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_Reloader
Originally Posted by TheKid
I was sitting along a deer trail yesterday evening with my bow letting my mind run wild as I watched for a late season deer with bad luck.

I let myself get halfway upset. Let me explain. As of now I live in a great state for deer hunters. We have a pretty liberal bag limit that allows us 8 does and 2 bucks if you hunt all the seasons and hunting methods. Quite a bit of public land for those not fortunate enough to have land or be able to afford a lease. Lots of opportunity, some form of deer season is open from October 1 thru Jan 15. A generally mild climate that makes it easy to get out and hunt without specialized gear plus it means good survival for fawn crops. Also we’re fortunate to get to hunt some portion of the rut with either a rifle or muzzleloader or both depending on the deer and the weather. While we don’t kill the multitude of giants like some Midwest states there are some really good bucks killed every year statewide and with some patience it generally isn’t too hard to get a shot at a nice buck if not an absolute monster.

Here’s the part that’s upsetting to me. There’s been a push that’s getting more and more vocal every year, I’m sure you can guess what crowd drives it, to get the wildlife department to make us a one buck state. It’ll improve the buck quality they say. We’ll be killing giants like Iowa and Ohio they say.

But if one looks closer these are the same guys and gals who spend thousands a year on feeders and supplements. Spend hours geeking out on their trail cam pics naming Ol’ Bentbrow and talking about management bucks. The same people who shoot Ravin crossbows that will put 3 bolts in as many inches at 100 yards. The guys who are using the smokeless muzzleloaders during “primitive” season that shoot 2” groups at 300 yards.

Not that my way is any more noble than theirs but when I bow hunt it’s with a recurve or longbow. Primitive season for me involves a sidelock muzzleloader with iron sights that I’m pretty confident in shooting out to about 70 yards. My standard of a “trophy” when using these weapons is not quite so stringent as I hold myself to during rifle season. Nobody makes me hunt this way, I enjoy it. But if they get their way I won’t be able to shoot a buck like the half rack one I missed with my longbow last week if I tagged one during the rifle season.

I guess this was all just to vent and say that I hate how competitive hunting has become with the advent of social media and cell cams, and the like. When I was a kid we had much lower bag limits but we could still shoot a buck with every method of take. And only the disabled were allowed the use of a crossbow. Optics of any type weren’t allowed on muzzleloaders. Nobody does anything the hard way anymore.

The wildlife department wants, practically begs us, to shoot does. 95 percent of guys won’t, period. Most people don’t eat deer or only do so grudgingly if it’s jerky or summer sausage so I don’t see this movement helping thin the does out. I just hope some egghead up there doesn’t get the idea this will help get people to shoot does.


Let me see if I can recap, you don’t like compound bows, crossbows (especially Raven crossbows), modern muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, trail cams, all things “high tech”, guys who can count inches of antler and you want to kill at least 2 immature bucks every year?


No, that is not what he's saying at all. Quite the contrary.



Yeah, not what I got out of it, at all.

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Well i havent shot a buck in the last 2 yrs.
Nothing for the grill this summer 😭

Id like to whack a P&Y but if my belly overrides my brain it could be another 100" 8 point.

They taste pretty good.

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Well I'm in my sixty's now, and yes I have a Ravin R10 took a 3 1/2 8 pt with it this fall, best buck I saw all year. We have the 3 pt per side rule here too. Got him on my buds land he has some small food plots. But I mostly hunt National forest land. Picking are slim. I used to hunt with long bows than self bows, till I couldn't pull them, then went to wheel bows, than to the cross bow, I'd rather shoot one with the Xbow and kill it than wound one with a compound. Same with guns hunted, with pistols alot, an old 1886 winny till I couldn't see the sight well any more. But still hunt with a scoped lever gun, or a single shot. I hope to put 2-3 deer a year in the freezer as we eat mostly version. 2bucks here and this year 10 does, I was lucky to shoot a small doe in the late season this year, but did it with a rifle made in 1917. But your right all about the score anymore, even the kids just want to shoot a big buck, when I was young it was a thrill to take a doe. And we had to be 14 to hunt deer. lots changed, not for the better.

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I wish my youngest was healthy enough to hunt.
Would let her fill the freezer with whatever she chose to shoot.

She cant handle cold and cant shoot a bow. Risk of retina detach w recoil....so gun is screwed. I told her Id buy her a ground blind, heater and an x bow w tripod if she wanted to go

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Originally Posted by Hawkeye_Reloader
Originally Posted by TheKid
I was sitting along a deer trail yesterday evening with my bow letting my mind run wild as I watched for a late season deer with bad luck.

I let myself get halfway upset. Let me explain. As of now I live in a great state for deer hunters. We have a pretty liberal bag limit that allows us 8 does and 2 bucks if you hunt all the seasons and hunting methods. Quite a bit of public land for those not fortunate enough to have land or be able to afford a lease. Lots of opportunity, some form of deer season is open from October 1 thru Jan 15. A generally mild climate that makes it easy to get out and hunt without specialized gear plus it means good survival for fawn crops. Also we’re fortunate to get to hunt some portion of the rut with either a rifle or muzzleloader or both depending on the deer and the weather. While we don’t kill the multitude of giants like some Midwest states there are some really good bucks killed every year statewide and with some patience it generally isn’t too hard to get a shot at a nice buck if not an absolute monster.

Here’s the part that’s upsetting to me. There’s been a push that’s getting more and more vocal every year, I’m sure you can guess what crowd drives it, to get the wildlife department to make us a one buck state. It’ll improve the buck quality they say. We’ll be killing giants like Iowa and Ohio they say.

But if one looks closer these are the same guys and gals who spend thousands a year on feeders and supplements. Spend hours geeking out on their trail cam pics naming Ol’ Bentbrow and talking about management bucks. The same people who shoot Ravin crossbows that will put 3 bolts in as many inches at 100 yards. The guys who are using the smokeless muzzleloaders during “primitive” season that shoot 2” groups at 300 yards.

Not that my way is any more noble than theirs but when I bow hunt it’s with a recurve or longbow. Primitive season for me involves a sidelock muzzleloader with iron sights that I’m pretty confident in shooting out to about 70 yards. My standard of a “trophy” when using these weapons is not quite so stringent as I hold myself to during rifle season. Nobody makes me hunt this way, I enjoy it. But if they get their way I won’t be able to shoot a buck like the half rack one I missed with my longbow last week if I tagged one during the rifle season.

I guess this was all just to vent and say that I hate how competitive hunting has become with the advent of social media and cell cams, and the like. When I was a kid we had much lower bag limits but we could still shoot a buck with every method of take. And only the disabled were allowed the use of a crossbow. Optics of any type weren’t allowed on muzzleloaders. Nobody does anything the hard way anymore.

The wildlife department wants, practically begs us, to shoot does. 95 percent of guys won’t, period. Most people don’t eat deer or only do so grudgingly if it’s jerky or summer sausage so I don’t see this movement helping thin the does out. I just hope some egghead up there doesn’t get the idea this will help get people to shoot does.


Let me see if I can recap, you don’t like compound bows, crossbows (especially Raven crossbows), modern muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, trail cams, all things “high tech”, guys who can count inches of antler and you want to kill at least 2 immature bucks every year?



I'd suggest reading it again without out being triggered

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Originally Posted by Mike78
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_Reloader
Originally Posted by TheKid
I was sitting along a deer trail yesterday evening with my bow letting my mind run wild as I watched for a late season deer with bad luck.

I let myself get halfway upset. Let me explain. As of now I live in a great state for deer hunters. We have a pretty liberal bag limit that allows us 8 does and 2 bucks if you hunt all the seasons and hunting methods. Quite a bit of public land for those not fortunate enough to have land or be able to afford a lease. Lots of opportunity, some form of deer season is open from October 1 thru Jan 15. A generally mild climate that makes it easy to get out and hunt without specialized gear plus it means good survival for fawn crops. Also we’re fortunate to get to hunt some portion of the rut with either a rifle or muzzleloader or both depending on the deer and the weather. While we don’t kill the multitude of giants like some Midwest states there are some really good bucks killed every year statewide and with some patience it generally isn’t too hard to get a shot at a nice buck if not an absolute monster.

Here’s the part that’s upsetting to me. There’s been a push that’s getting more and more vocal every year, I’m sure you can guess what crowd drives it, to get the wildlife department to make us a one buck state. It’ll improve the buck quality they say. We’ll be killing giants like Iowa and Ohio they say.

But if one looks closer these are the same guys and gals who spend thousands a year on feeders and supplements. Spend hours geeking out on their trail cam pics naming Ol’ Bentbrow and talking about management bucks. The same people who shoot Ravin crossbows that will put 3 bolts in as many inches at 100 yards. The guys who are using the smokeless muzzleloaders during “primitive” season that shoot 2” groups at 300 yards.

Not that my way is any more noble than theirs but when I bow hunt it’s with a recurve or longbow. Primitive season for me involves a sidelock muzzleloader with iron sights that I’m pretty confident in shooting out to about 70 yards. My standard of a “trophy” when using these weapons is not quite so stringent as I hold myself to during rifle season. Nobody makes me hunt this way, I enjoy it. But if they get their way I won’t be able to shoot a buck like the half rack one I missed with my longbow last week if I tagged one during the rifle season.

I guess this was all just to vent and say that I hate how competitive hunting has become with the advent of social media and cell cams, and the like. When I was a kid we had much lower bag limits but we could still shoot a buck with every method of take. And only the disabled were allowed the use of a crossbow. Optics of any type weren’t allowed on muzzleloaders. Nobody does anything the hard way anymore.

The wildlife department wants, practically begs us, to shoot does. 95 percent of guys won’t, period. Most people don’t eat deer or only do so grudgingly if it’s jerky or summer sausage so I don’t see this movement helping thin the does out. I just hope some egghead up there doesn’t get the idea this will help get people to shoot does.


Let me see if I can recap, you don’t like compound bows, crossbows (especially Raven crossbows), modern muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, trail cams, all things “high tech”, guys who can count inches of antler and you want to kill at least 2 immature bucks every year?



I'd suggest reading it again without out being triggered


When the OP says "Nobody does anything the hard way anymore" just what does that mean to You?


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Saddlering That is just the problem right there. Not the fun of the hunt, but the size of the buck. We must compete in everything or it is not worth while.. So sad.


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Originally Posted by roundoak
Originally Posted by Mike78
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_Reloader
Originally Posted by TheKid
I was sitting along a deer trail yesterday evening with my bow letting my mind run wild as I watched for a late season deer with bad luck.

I let myself get halfway upset. Let me explain. As of now I live in a great state for deer hunters. We have a pretty liberal bag limit that allows us 8 does and 2 bucks if you hunt all the seasons and hunting methods. Quite a bit of public land for those not fortunate enough to have land or be able to afford a lease. Lots of opportunity, some form of deer season is open from October 1 thru Jan 15. A generally mild climate that makes it easy to get out and hunt without specialized gear plus it means good survival for fawn crops. Also we’re fortunate to get to hunt some portion of the rut with either a rifle or muzzleloader or both depending on the deer and the weather. While we don’t kill the multitude of giants like some Midwest states there are some really good bucks killed every year statewide and with some patience it generally isn’t too hard to get a shot at a nice buck if not an absolute monster.

Here’s the part that’s upsetting to me. There’s been a push that’s getting more and more vocal every year, I’m sure you can guess what crowd drives it, to get the wildlife department to make us a one buck state. It’ll improve the buck quality they say. We’ll be killing giants like Iowa and Ohio they say.

But if one looks closer these are the same guys and gals who spend thousands a year on feeders and supplements. Spend hours geeking out on their trail cam pics naming Ol’ Bentbrow and talking about management bucks. The same people who shoot Ravin crossbows that will put 3 bolts in as many inches at 100 yards. The guys who are using the smokeless muzzleloaders during “primitive” season that shoot 2” groups at 300 yards.

Not that my way is any more noble than theirs but when I bow hunt it’s with a recurve or longbow. Primitive season for me involves a sidelock muzzleloader with iron sights that I’m pretty confident in shooting out to about 70 yards. My standard of a “trophy” when using these weapons is not quite so stringent as I hold myself to during rifle season. Nobody makes me hunt this way, I enjoy it. But if they get their way I won’t be able to shoot a buck like the half rack one I missed with my longbow last week if I tagged one during the rifle season.

I guess this was all just to vent and say that I hate how competitive hunting has become with the advent of social media and cell cams, and the like. When I was a kid we had much lower bag limits but we could still shoot a buck with every method of take. And only the disabled were allowed the use of a crossbow. Optics of any type weren’t allowed on muzzleloaders. Nobody does anything the hard way anymore.

The wildlife department wants, practically begs us, to shoot does. 95 percent of guys won’t, period. Most people don’t eat deer or only do so grudgingly if it’s jerky or summer sausage so I don’t see this movement helping thin the does out. I just hope some egghead up there doesn’t get the idea this will help get people to shoot does.


Let me see if I can recap, you don’t like compound bows, crossbows (especially Raven crossbows), modern muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, trail cams, all things “high tech”, guys who can count inches of antler and you want to kill at least 2 immature bucks every year?



I'd suggest reading it again without out being triggered


When the OP says "Nobody does anything the hard way anymore" just what does that mean to You?



If that triggers you it should also trigger the guy that typed it, since it would include him. When some says "Nobody likes fruitcake" I know what they are saying.

It's more clear in the original post.

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Originally Posted by roundoak
Originally Posted by Mike78
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_Reloader
Originally Posted by TheKid
I was sitting along a deer trail yesterday evening with my bow letting my mind run wild as I watched for a late season deer with bad luck.

I let myself get halfway upset. Let me explain. As of now I live in a great state for deer hunters. We have a pretty liberal bag limit that allows us 8 does and 2 bucks if you hunt all the seasons and hunting methods. Quite a bit of public land for those not fortunate enough to have land or be able to afford a lease. Lots of opportunity, some form of deer season is open from October 1 thru Jan 15. A generally mild climate that makes it easy to get out and hunt without specialized gear plus it means good survival for fawn crops. Also we’re fortunate to get to hunt some portion of the rut with either a rifle or muzzleloader or both depending on the deer and the weather. While we don’t kill the multitude of giants like some Midwest states there are some really good bucks killed every year statewide and with some patience it generally isn’t too hard to get a shot at a nice buck if not an absolute monster.

Here’s the part that’s upsetting to me. There’s been a push that’s getting more and more vocal every year, I’m sure you can guess what crowd drives it, to get the wildlife department to make us a one buck state. It’ll improve the buck quality they say. We’ll be killing giants like Iowa and Ohio they say.

But if one looks closer these are the same guys and gals who spend thousands a year on feeders and supplements. Spend hours geeking out on their trail cam pics naming Ol’ Bentbrow and talking about management bucks. The same people who shoot Ravin crossbows that will put 3 bolts in as many inches at 100 yards. The guys who are using the smokeless muzzleloaders during “primitive” season that shoot 2” groups at 300 yards.

Not that my way is any more noble than theirs but when I bow hunt it’s with a recurve or longbow. Primitive season for me involves a sidelock muzzleloader with iron sights that I’m pretty confident in shooting out to about 70 yards. My standard of a “trophy” when using these weapons is not quite so stringent as I hold myself to during rifle season. Nobody makes me hunt this way, I enjoy it. But if they get their way I won’t be able to shoot a buck like the half rack one I missed with my longbow last week if I tagged one during the rifle season.

I guess this was all just to vent and say that I hate how competitive hunting has become with the advent of social media and cell cams, and the like. When I was a kid we had much lower bag limits but we could still shoot a buck with every method of take. And only the disabled were allowed the use of a crossbow. Optics of any type weren’t allowed on muzzleloaders. Nobody does anything the hard way anymore.

The wildlife department wants, practically begs us, to shoot does. 95 percent of guys won’t, period. Most people don’t eat deer or only do so grudgingly if it’s jerky or summer sausage so I don’t see this movement helping thin the does out. I just hope some egghead up there doesn’t get the idea this will help get people to shoot does.


Let me see if I can recap, you don’t like compound bows, crossbows (especially Raven crossbows), modern muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, trail cams, all things “high tech”, guys who can count inches of antler and you want to kill at least 2 immature bucks every year?



I'd suggest reading it again without out being triggered


When the OP says "Nobody does anything the hard way anymore" just what does that mean to You?


It also means to me that you are easily triggered, but I guess that's why you live in a liberal state.

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My intent was to say that technology has made it easier to kill deer. The crowd that largely takes advantage of this technology desires to lower the limit on deer to achieve their goals. I feel like the same objective could be reached by limiting the technology that’s legal to be used while not treading on anyone’s opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Mike78
Originally Posted by roundoak
Originally Posted by Mike78
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_Reloader
Originally Posted by TheKid
I was sitting along a deer trail yesterday evening with my bow letting my mind run wild as I watched for a late season deer with bad luck.

I let myself get halfway upset. Let me explain. As of now I live in a great state for deer hunters. We have a pretty liberal bag limit that allows us 8 does and 2 bucks if you hunt all the seasons and hunting methods. Quite a bit of public land for those not fortunate enough to have land or be able to afford a lease. Lots of opportunity, some form of deer season is open from October 1 thru Jan 15. A generally mild climate that makes it easy to get out and hunt without specialized gear plus it means good survival for fawn crops. Also we’re fortunate to get to hunt some portion of the rut with either a rifle or muzzleloader or both depending on the deer and the weather. While we don’t kill the multitude of giants like some Midwest states there are some really good bucks killed every year statewide and with some patience it generally isn’t too hard to get a shot at a nice buck if not an absolute monster.

Here’s the part that’s upsetting to me. There’s been a push that’s getting more and more vocal every year, I’m sure you can guess what crowd drives it, to get the wildlife department to make us a one buck state. It’ll improve the buck quality they say. We’ll be killing giants like Iowa and Ohio they say.

But if one looks closer these are the same guys and gals who spend thousands a year on feeders and supplements. Spend hours geeking out on their trail cam pics naming Ol’ Bentbrow and talking about management bucks. The same people who shoot Ravin crossbows that will put 3 bolts in as many inches at 100 yards. The guys who are using the smokeless muzzleloaders during “primitive” season that shoot 2” groups at 300 yards.

Not that my way is any more noble than theirs but when I bow hunt it’s with a recurve or longbow. Primitive season for me involves a sidelock muzzleloader with iron sights that I’m pretty confident in shooting out to about 70 yards. My standard of a “trophy” when using these weapons is not quite so stringent as I hold myself to during rifle season. Nobody makes me hunt this way, I enjoy it. But if they get their way I won’t be able to shoot a buck like the half rack one I missed with my longbow last week if I tagged one during the rifle season.

I guess this was all just to vent and say that I hate how competitive hunting has become with the advent of social media and cell cams, and the like. When I was a kid we had much lower bag limits but we could still shoot a buck with every method of take. And only the disabled were allowed the use of a crossbow. Optics of any type weren’t allowed on muzzleloaders. Nobody does anything the hard way anymore.

The wildlife department wants, practically begs us, to shoot does. 95 percent of guys won’t, period. Most people don’t eat deer or only do so grudgingly if it’s jerky or summer sausage so I don’t see this movement helping thin the does out. I just hope some egghead up there doesn’t get the idea this will help get people to shoot does.


Let me see if I can recap, you don’t like compound bows, crossbows (especially Raven crossbows), modern muzzleloaders, smokeless muzzleloaders, trail cams, all things “high tech”, guys who can count inches of antler and you want to kill at least 2 immature bucks every year?



I'd suggest reading it again without out being triggered


When the OP says "Nobody does anything the hard way anymore" just what does that mean to You?


It also means to me that you are easily triggered, but I guess that's why you live in a liberal state.
What state are you hiding in?


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Originally Posted by TheKid
My intent was to say that technology has made it easier to kill deer. The crowd that largely takes advantage of this technology desires to lower the limit on deer to achieve their goals. I feel like the same objective could be reached by limiting the technology that’s legal to be used while not treading on anyone’s opportunity.



Personally, I can’t see where having a better gun or bow or having a trail cam has much helped me kill more big deer. I also like having more than one any sex tag. Our doe to buck ratio is 7:1 and most bucks are killed at 1.5 yrs in my area I believe. I’d be in favor of a ratio closer to 1:1 as nature intended (however that goal might be achieved).

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Originally Posted by Mike78

It also means to me that you are easily triggered, but I guess that's why you live in a liberal state.


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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Yup more like a contest now than a hunt! I can still have a great hunt, even with out a kill! But nice to put meat in the freezer, from time to time. Lol I didn't even bow hunt the 1st 2 weeks as it was hot out for October.


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Originally Posted by saddlering
Yup more like a contest now than a hunt! I can still have a great hunt, even with out a kill! But nice to put meat in the freezer, from time to time. Lol I didn't even bow hunt the 1st 2 weeks as it was hot out for October.


Yup, i dont get wound up about bow til Halloween.

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They used to call me

“ John Doe fever!”

I get way more adrenaline rush shooting does than a Bigger buck! Seems when I really want it ,I calm down.

Now I look for does without fawns……….my wife don’t like orphans.


For male deer I can be hell on dinks. Medium sized ones I try to let walk. I hate the competition part of hunting….bums me out.

One of the best sayings I heard is as follows:

“If you only open your mouth to eat it………..nobody gonna judge u at all.”

Funny thing about Idaho and elk hunting is they …….

IE fish and game keep meowing about low bull / cow ratios….not enough bulls……

Yet they got OTC spike tags.

Brilliant ! just freaking brilliant.

Last edited by Angus1895; 01/11/22.

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Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter
Saddlering That is just the problem right there. Not the fun of the hunt, but the size of the buck. We must compete in everything or it is not worth while.. So sad.


The size of the buck COULD be a competition thing with other hunters.

Its not mandatory to score or enter ones deer.

Of course there are big deer that will never get put in a book.
Some folks dont care about that stuff.

Ive put the tape to every deer Ive killed thats looked to be 100" or better. Simply out of curiosity.
That has allowed me to judge deer pretty well.

Some have no sense of scale. Had a guy say his video of a buck, it was 170. i said 120. It got hit on the road and guy brought the rack over, we called mr camcorder.
It was 120 by the tape

My buddy shot a good one. I tend to be conservative when guessing. Went over and looked at his buck and said 150 to 155. It netted 154.

I have a mid 160s net on the wall so maintain some sense of scale.

Compete, sure I do.
Against ME.


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I'd like to see my part of Louisiana have a 2 buck limit, as it's hard to even see a decent 3-4 year old buck per season in a lot of areas. We can kill 6 deer a year, with up to 4 bucks (used to be 6 bucks!). As a result, I see loads of young baskets each fall, but a lot of them get eliminated before they ever make it to150lbs. If a guy in the piney woods of north LA wants to kill a couple of decent 8-10pt bucks each season, he's got to be crafty/smart/dedicated and spend a lot of time in the woods to make it happen, unless he's maybe hunting a tract with no surrounding hunting pressure. That's rare around here. Considering all this, my goal is to fill the freezer up with does and maybe catch a decent buck in the process. I average a buck every other year, and I imagine a lot of guys from midwestern states wouldn't even get out of bed for that. The established deer hunting culture in my area has been "If it's brown, it's down" for so long that a lot of folks will never pass up a 13" wide 8-point and see what he'll become because the know the neighbor will shoot him tomorrow. I wish it wasn't the case.


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Ive eaten 13" wide 8 points.
Theyre delicious.

We have some 150 plus class deer around.
Little spots of woods w ag, and roads, and pressure.

Most around us are of the brown its down and as a result the overall deer pop is low.

We have poaching too.

Its a tough gig
Weve killed 4 deer over 125" off our little spot.

In ten yrs. Hell I never saw an antler this past season and have had other seasons like that there.

Its not a great spot, but can be decent.
I have hunted excellent ground where back in the 80s you could damn near throw a rock and kill a 100" 8 point.

See herds of deer, in season. Seen over 40 a day in gun.

Hell, i saw the same 4 deer in bow and gun this past yr.
My buddy saw them, a 3 pt and the 145" he shot

Its hard to burn vac time freezing for such low % hunting.
Esp after having hunted better ground.

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