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Well said Mr Aussie brother. Facts and experiences build strong walls in the hunting/ shooting game.
This thread was and still is the best example of the power of simple truth telling in the gun world that I know of. The liars and deniers can’t climb the mountain we have built here. Thanks for your contribution.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

YEP!


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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To all Knights of the realm, the .458 Winchester Magnum Brotherhood realm, of course:

It is grand to see so many honoring the .458 Winchester Magnum.

I am volunteering to be the Shaman of the Realm, as well as handling secretary duties.
Just like with my position as "Surgeon" at my local chapter of Sons of the American Revolution,
there are essentially no duties except for making up something to do.

So, I am recommending that we of the Brotherhood adopt a motto:
SEMPER FIDELIS QUATTUOR QUINQUE OCTO
"Semper fi 4-5-8" for short.
Always faithful to the .458 Winchester Magnum.

Like you can always depend on the USMC, you can always depend on the Four Five Eight.
I am sure if Col. Craig "Shill" Boddington ever got out of line in the USMC, the USMC would set him straight.
I will be looking for that March 2022 SHOOTING TIMES.

The way the world is going now, we must not falter in the crusade for truth.
Be strong.
Yes, Trump did win.
Let's go Brandon.



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Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
I think we owe a lot to Remington, Barnes and even Swift in that 1988-89 period for the escalation of both big bore interest and the sum of more ballistically superior bullet profiles because up until then, the average consumer thought of the .458 as a 50-100 yard thumper with 500 grain round nose bullets and we now seldom consider them for overall use as they limit the potential of the cartridge.

Sure, the round nose heavy weight, my preferences being the 550gn Woodleigh, is a great thumper at the ranges it was intended for and on the game associated with close range hunting, but that is not the scope of use nor the potential value of the .458 case.

Because of that, sparked interested in pointed .458 bullets more more than 30 years ago, I learned pretty quickly that the 300gn X bullet could be loaded to a point blank of around 250 yards opening up its range capability to lots of field trials on Australia's feral game. Would liked to have taken more larger game but who wouldn't?

After using, 300, 325, 350, 400, 405, 450, 500, 550 and 600 grain bullets, the 400 grain weight became the best compromise if an all rounder was desired and then one only needed a very heavy game load based on opinion as the 400gn X at least for me, never failed to perform on animals up to near a ton and I would use it on anything I ever killed or may ever take.

I had a 200 yard range where I lived in the Colorado Rockies with a backdrop hillside of pine trees behind and to the side of the targets I used. These trees were around 18-24 inches in diameter and those Barnes 400gn X bullets I'd loaded up for my .458 and had no problem completely penetrating them at that 200 yard distance. Even at .460 Weatherby velocities on large game, 5 foot penetration on muscle and bone was had. The value of this thread is the collective input from various people who have done different things with the same bullets and cartridges as that collective is what generates the theme of confidence you can get before delving into perhaps previously unknown in bullets and cartridges.

Russ is hunting Sambar at the moment and is certainly not the first Aussie hunter to take a .458 for those elusive and tough deer. The objective being to drop them as fast as possible as they take off like whitetail and will even hide in water or thick brush including 1/4 acre blackberry thickets much taller than a man where they weave their way in and just sit down out of sight. When the sambar is found and earned, its up to the cartridge and bullet so here's to Russ and his .458.


Right on!
cool

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
To all Knights of the realm, the .458 Winchester Magnum Brotherhood realm, of course:

It is grand to see so many honoring the .458 Winchester Magnum.

I am volunteering to be the Shaman of the Realm, as well as handling secretary duties.
Just like with my position as "Surgeon" at my local chapter of Sons of the American Revolution,
there are essentially no duties except for making up something to do.

So, I am recommending that we of the Brotherhood adopt a motto:
SEMPER FIDELIS QUATTUOR QUINQUE OCTO
"Semper fi 4-5-8" for short.
Always faithful to the .458 Winchester Magnum.

Like you can always depend on the USMC, you can always depend on the Four Five Eight.
I am sure if Col. Craig "Shill" Boddington ever got out of line in the USMC, the USMC would set him straight.
I will be looking for that March 2022 SHOOTING TIMES.

The way the world is going now, we must not falter in the crusade for truth.
Be strong.
Yes, Trump did win.
Let's go Brandon.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Once again Sir Ron, You The Great Shaman Has Impressed!!!


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Sir Tony,

Buy a donkey for the flowers. You are too kind.

And here is a great new development as of today:

[Linked Image]

https://hammerbullets.com/product/458-cal-400g-shock-hammer/


.458 Cal-400g Shock Hammer
In stock and ready to ship!
$65.00

We designed this big bore Shock Hammer on the request of a customer who wanted the one gun one bullet solution for Hammering anything in the world. Here is the result. A 3mm hollow point that will open easily and produce robust heavy petals with enough weight retention to give deep penetration on the toughest of animals.

SKU: 45400SH-25
Category: Bullet
Tags: .458, Dangerous Game, Shock Hammer

DESCRIPTION
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Minimum required twist rate is 1-19″ dangerous game or 1-22″ big game

Bullet length is 1.44″

Nose length is .7406″

Bullet weight is 400g

Recommended use: Dangerous Game Hunting and Big Game Hunting

g1-bc= .419 estimated

Qty-25



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That is like $2.65 per bullet.
But that is nothing when they are worth their weight in diamonds.
It will be easy to develop a loads with COL minimum of 3.24" to 3.54"
that will run from 2400 fps to 2600 fps MV.
You can run them at 3.34" COL and +2400 fps working through the standard .30-06-length magazine box,
or load them long, single-shot-style, and they will still eject from the unaltered factory SAAMI .458 WinMag at up to 3.54" COL.

G1 BC estimate of 0.419

Those PDR bands by Hammer make for low drag.
Will test at 2500 fps MV out to 600 yards to see if drop is close to what that BC predicts.
Maybe get a young technofriend with Lab Radar on it too.



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Flat rate shipping is $11.00 for quantities up to 500 bullets I reckon.
That is 2.2 cents per bullet.
Buy a thousand and they might ship for 1.1 cents per bullet.

https://hammerbullets.com/product/458-cal-400g-shock-hammer/



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[Linked Image]

"Free Bore Boost" is how the .458 WinMag beats a SAAMI .458 Lott when they are both loaded to the same COL.



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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Sir Tony,

Buy a donkey for the flowers. You are too kind.

And here is a great new development as of today:

[Linked Image]

https://hammerbullets.com/product/458-cal-400g-shock-hammer/


.458 Cal-400g Shock Hammer
In stock and ready to ship!
$65.00

We designed this big bore Shock Hammer on the request of a customer who wanted the one gun one bullet solution for Hammering anything in the world. Here is the result. A 3mm hollow point that will open easily and produce robust heavy petals with enough weight retention to give deep penetration on the toughest of animals.

SKU: 45400SH-25
Category: Bullet
Tags: .458, Dangerous Game, Shock Hammer

DESCRIPTION
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
Minimum required twist rate is 1-19″ dangerous game or 1-22″ big game

Bullet length is 1.44″

Nose length is .7406″

Bullet weight is 400g

Recommended use: Dangerous Game Hunting and Big Game Hunting

g1-bc= .419 estimated

Qty-25


Sir Ron, Outstanding !!!
Very very interesting !
For my interests, this may prove out to be The .458 North American Game Bullet at 2400’ish FPS.

Excellent to see a BC breaking .400 for the .458. !!

Are these designed for 80% bullet weight retention ?

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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
That is like $2.65 per bullet.
But that is nothing when they are worth their weight in diamonds.
It will be easy to develop a loads with COL minimum of 3.24" to 3.54"
that will run from 2400 fps to 2600 fps MV.
You can run them at 3.34" COL and +2400 fps working through the standard .30-06-length magazine box,
or load them long, single-shot-style, and they will still eject from the unaltered factory SAAMI .458 WinMag at up to 3.54" COL.

G1 BC estimate of 0.419

Those PDR bands by Hammer make for low drag.
Will test at 2500 fps MV out to 600 yards to see if drop is close to what that BC predicts.
Maybe get a young technofriend with Lab Radar on it too.


Man that'll work Sir Ron, here is where i believe the AA-2230 powder will shine, in my guesstimated mind on a set and forget hunting scope i took the middle number of 2500 fps, +3 at 100 should zero around 210 yards and be 8 or 9 inches low at 300 yards, bullet should still be packing near 1800 fps and may be a little more than 2 feet low at 400 yards, with a Mil or MOA twist em up scope like a Nightforce or Bushnell LRTS hits to 500+ yards would be cake, good work Sir.


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The market has moved! Well done Sir Ron.

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Congratulations Sir Ron on motivating Hammer Bullets to produce what may very well become the best 400gr/.458 ever!

Unfortunately we'll never see it in Canada in my lifetime with a cost like that. But maybe I could send a direct order from heaven!?

In the meantime, I've a question:

I've 49 VERY hard-cast bullets in .459" . BHN should be well over 20. The average weight is 410 grs, they are impregnated with a copper coat, one grease groove .30" from the flat base (with slight bevel, and no GC) and a crimp groove at .435" from a flat .30" nose; obviously made for the likes of a Marlin. I've had them "forever", getting them from an add in HANDLOADER over two decades ago.

It looks like I've only fired one - not sure why, but I think it sort of "key-holed" - it's vague with me now. The lube in the grease-groove is a pale red - not sure if it's still good. I'd like to try one (or more if that goes well) in the Ruger .458.

Question: What do you think? When you get 10 secs to think about it and give a short reply...

PS: They are 1.1" BOL and could be seated to a COL of 3.2" - 3.225" so case mouth is just above the grease groove.

Thanks.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Last edited by CZ550; 01/19/22.

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Originally Posted by ldmay375

Excellent to see a BC breaking .400 for the .458. !!

Are these designed for 80% bullet weight retention ?

Sir Larry,
Yes, that is neato on the BC.
Theoretical weight retention in complete bow-off of petals down to squared off at bottom of hollow point: 64%
That was determined by putting one on a bench grinder until 100% meplat appeared at base of the HP.
I will shoot some into 25-yard water buckets at various velocities, like 1600 fps, 2100 fps and 2600 fps MV,
from the mighty .458 WM and .458 WM+ for starters.
Seeing when the petals start to open up and when they come off completely may require further testing.
Every other copper monometal HP seems to act like that.
Will see if Shock Hammers behave any differently,
like brass HP will blow off petals at low velocity and essentially same at high velocity.

With about 1/3 weight in petals as secondary missiles and 2/3 weight in FN solid cylinder shank penetrator,
with a little boat tail at the other end to shift CG forward,
or a mushroom with greater weight retention and frontal diameter ...
either seems to be a recipe for success.



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Originally Posted by gunner500

... AA-2230 powder will shine, in my guesstimated mind on a set and forget hunting scope i took the middle number of 2500 fps, +3 at 100 should zero around 210 yards and be 8 or 9 inches low at 300 yards, bullet should still be packing near 1800 fps and may be a little more than 2 feet low at 400 yards, with a Mil or MOA twist em up scope like a Nightforce or Bushnell LRTS hits to 500+ yards would be cake, good work Sir.

Sir Jerry,
That is an excellent plan.
80.0 grains of AA-2230 ought to do it at sub-3.4" COL if the GSC 400-gr HV was any indication.
Add more powder and longer COL to unnecessarily go faster than 2500 fps.



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Sir Ron, this may be the answer in your quest for truth justice and the American way


https://www.clearballistics.com/product-category/ballistic-gelatin/20-synthetic-ballistic-gelatin/

Last edited by jwp475; 01/19/22.


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Originally Posted by Fury01
The market has moved!

Sir Dennis,
I like that.
Let us be bullish fo' sho'.



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Sir Bob,

That is sort of like my old Berry's Bullets 409-gr/.459" FN grease lubed bullets,
except mine are plain-base, have no copper-washed/plated base treatment.

Your Ruger No. 1 is .459"-grooved like mine, I reckon.
It will shoot those bullets with OK accuracy only if you keep the velocity down to about 1200 fps.
Mine key-holed at higher speed too.
I used 26.0 grains of AA-5744 for a 7-yard instrumental velocity of 1172 fps
and 3 shots into an inch at 50 yards.

Nice plinker, barely supersonic.
Accuracy will get worse until keyholing assuredly at 1500 fps instrumental.

Alternatively: Degrease them and powder-coat paint them to make them 0.460".
Still not the desirable 0.461" for best accuracy.

Alternatively alternatively: Shoot them in a .45-70 with .457" grooves using smokeless loads.
SAAMI spec for .45-70 is 0.456" minimum groove,
so you will find them with groove diameters from .456" to .459" and hopefully no greater than that !



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Cast bullets with brinel hardness in the 30s will be more accurate in the 2000 FPS velocity range.



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Originally Posted by jwp475

Sir Ron, this may be the answer in your qust for truth justice and the American way


https://www.clearballistics.com/product-category/ballistic-gelatin/20-synthetic-ballistic-gelatin/


Sir John,
Sure would be nice if Hammer Bullets would do that for us.
IIRC they have some videos of their bullets in that stuff, at their website.
Steve Davis of Hammer Bullets proprietorship is excited about this bullet, mentioned thinking about necking up his "Fat Girl" wildcat series for it.
Based on the .308/.300 Norma case, like a .338 Lapua Magnum improved shortened to about 2.49" case length.
Imagine the .458 Fat Girl !
Maybe Kirby Allen will adopt it as his Varmint Dominator Bullet at 4000 fps from his .458 Maximus.

I'll be doing well to shoot them into water buckets.
Water is like concrete at near 2600 fps impact.



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