Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots Ruger #1 450 vs 45-70?

I'm looking at acquiring a Ruger No.1. I'd like it to be a nice 45 cal. Looking at either a 450 Marlin or a 45-70 Gov. Any thoughts or experience would be helpful. Ammo availability for both seem scarce. I know the 450 Marlin has a little more velocity. I have plenty of 45-70 rifles and one 1895 Guide Gun in 450 Marlin. I like them both.

In factory chamberings, it looks like the 450 used a 20" barrel vs 22" on the 45-70. I personally would lean to the 45-70 because I'm set up to load for it and would prefer the longer barrel.

Me too.

Go with the 45/70. Lots of factory ammo out there. Also brass is easier to find if you reload. The Ruger action can handle any load, your shoulder will tell you when to stop.

No reason to pick a .450 in a gun like the Ruger. Look at loading data for both (.45/70 data for Number 1’s, not Trapdoors). OTOH, .450s can be built on bolt actions pretty easily, if anyone prefers one of those; I don’t. Brass and ammo choice is no contest, or will be when the Plague is over.

I have typically been shooting Sharps Rifles and very limited experience with Ballard Rifles. I've got a few 45-70s and I like them. I shoot a 45-70 out of a Shiloh Sharps standard weight barrel and after a bit your shoulder definitely tells you when to stop. Its fun to shoot and load for. I know for years Shiloh shooters would claim you can shoot anything out of the Shiloh that you can shoot out of a No. 1, so I'm sure you can heat up the loads quite a bit in those, but I'd prefer to do it in a No. 1 just to be on the safe side. Plus its an excuse to get another gun

A big handful of cases and a bullet mold is all you need for a helluva lot of shooting, from mouse fart practice loads to full snot shoulder breakers. In that regard .45-70 brass is everywhere on the internet, not so much .450 Marlin.

I agree with the crowd. The 45-70 is the way to go in a No 1. Have one and love it. The only reason for the 450 Marlin was to have a powerful round for the Marlin lever that couldn't be accidentally be chambered in a Trap door or other weak action. Buy a hundred Starline 45-70 cases and you're likely set for a lifetime.

Personally I would like to see a .40-70 #1 to go with my .40-70 Ballard, to see what can really be done with it.

I have an unfired Lipseys Ruger #1 in stainless/walnut. What do you think it will go for?

Not 100% sure. Pretty much every No. 1 I see that is in good condition is well north of $1,000 these days. Not sure about the Lipsey's exclusives or some of the rarer ones.

Since, you appear to like them both rounds equally, you might decide based on which is available first in the configuration YOU like the best. Some of the 450 are ugly. Some of the 45/70 are light and short. Some 45/70 had medium (lIpsey special) barrels.

FWIW, I like rimmed cartridges in my singe shots. Positive extraction and more traditional.

I picked up a No 1 stainless in 45-70 in December. I have owned the 450 Marlin and 45-70 in various Marlins. I still have a 1895XLR.
The 45-70 is easier to find ammo and components. I also prefer the 22" barrel of the 45-70. Any advantage of the 450 Marlin is lost in the shorter barrel.
I still regret not being able to buy a No 1 in 45-70 with the 26" barrel.
Having killed deer with both calibers, I saw no difference.

I kinda wanted a Ruger No1 like this most of my adult life and jumped on it as soon as I found out. Made a sight unseen, online order, back when I rarely did that. I am glad I did. I think this is the perfect balance of looks, feel and performance. That was a Lipsey's option. Sometimes Ruger has this almost mystical insight and other times he just missed the mark. Another example was for many years the Super Blackhawk only in 7.5" barrel. Not 6 or 6 1/2 but only 7 1/2.

Talk about missing the mark. How about a normal shape butt plate and sporting shape for arm on the No3. It would not cost 5c more to have made that gun right! You know, that could still be made today. Image this? An economy model, plain Jane wood and blue steel No3. I know, no chance. More profit in stainless laminated crap.

If i could find a 45-70 No. 1 in a 26" barrel I would jump all over it.

I'd prefer a 26" barrel over a 22", but my favorite barrel length for the No. 1 is 24".

The main advantage of the 450M over the 45/70 in a Ruger No.1 is the throating. I believe Ruger now use a SAAMI spec throat for the 45/70 (ie no throat). That minor advantage can be easily addressed by having a 45/70 throated as you wish. Either option will be a bit light for really heavy loads. With a Ruger No.1 you could easily get by with a 24-26” barrel but 22” makes for a nice compact rifle.

45-70 for me!

Besides I have not seen 450 brass for sale lately?

Personally I'd say .450 NE

Love my Winchester scoped 1885 in 45-70 reproduction. Wish it didn't have a curved buttplate. I do have a leather and rubber tie-on recoil pad that helps. Gun is accurate and beautiful.

However I have more fun shooting my mint original trapdoor springfield. My late uncle gifted me many years ago an Ideal 500gn mold and he said shoot the bullet as cast. He was right. Some of his 45-70 cases he used back then were tin (?) plated government issue.

Whichever way you go it will be fun.

The belted 450 Marlin does look cool though.

Thanks all for the responses! I appreciate it!

I built and enjoyed a Ruger 77 in 458x2 American. I wish I had not sold it. If the 450 Marlin had been offered in a longer than 20” barrel in the No.1 I would probably own one. I have a 45/70 No.1 with a 22” barrel. It’s ok but I think most any No.1 balances well (better?) with a 24” barrel.
I have two No.1’s in 44 Mag and 475 Linebaugh and am happy with them but would have chosen at least 22” barrels if I had the choice.

In a No1 or single shot a rimmed case like the 45-70 is a natural fit for really positive ejection as there's more case to extractor ejector engagement.

45-70 ammo will be more available than 450 marlin.

Agree, go with the 450 if you're wanting to use a bolt gun.

For a single shot, go with the old .45-70. I can load the .45-70 to 450 levels if I have a strong rifle.

DF

Consider the 450/400 NE. I have one in the #1 and it's a great rifle. Mule Deer helped me with some reduced loads and it makes a nice big bore deer rifle.

I understand your pain....I somehow was smart enough and had the funds to purchase one of those Lipseys specials that they made with Circassian walnut and the 26" tube...I will likely never part with it as it's a rifle that can be used for anything on this continent and many others. Loaded mild to wild, it is capable of many tasks.......frankly, as I age, I am loading it down more. Currently run 350 gr JSP's for Deer to Bear and wouldn't consider myself outgunned.

On another forum a gentleman suggested the 458 winchester. Anyone have experience with that cartridge?

The 458 can be loaded to same levels as 45/70 or the various 450 BM and NE using the same bullets. Brass is reasonably available. The problem is you are specifically looking for a No1 and all the 458 WM No1 have the very heavy D barrel. Even with the D weight, you probably wont care for the recoil with factory ammo, but; the deal breaker for me is that heavy straight taper barrel. The whole idea of 458 versatility in loading kinda goes out the window with that setup. That is your call, go handle one.

I believe when they offered the No1 Doddington Africa series the 450 NE it used the C weight barrel. That brass wont be so easy to find. The gun was made right.

I think you are back with the 45/70 as a 1st choice with an open mind to other 45 caliber options if you are ok with the price and barrel. What can you find.

I might as well repeat my preference is for the older rimmed cartridges in a classic rifle. ie. 45/70 and 450NE, or step down a bit in bore size and bullet selection to 450/400 and 405

Those 4 are my No1 Universe. I own two of them now. And those two are the only No1 I own. If I ever added a 3rd No1 it would come off that short list.

A 50 caliber option would be interesting. That would be drifting off topic.

I have a 50-90 Shiloh Sharps on order from Bill Goodman out of Bozeman MT. I like the configuration. I just figured the Ruger No. 1 would be a much lighter version than the 12-13 lb Sharps rifle. I have a standard weight 45-70 Shiloh that I like a lot but it is still heavier than the No. 1.

If you think the 458 No1 will work here is one at Cabelas Arizona $1500. With Covid and the general availability of anything this is probably about as good a deal as you will find. Gun Broker only has two No1 and both are 22 center fire. The other Cabelas No1's seem to start at 2k and go from there. Welcome to 2022! My point about, what can you find?

https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/101161235

Cableas will move/ship things from store to store if you ask.

The 458 win can be loaded to 2300 FPS with a 500 grain bullet by seating to a COAL of 3.5". The 458 win has a long throat and can safely be loaded to higher velocity than a 458 Lott

Wow, the junk even gets posted when a guy is asking a simple question about the No1. Unbelievable! Now, that butt hurt feeling since the Lott was introduced will never subside. This kind of posting is down right silly. And inexcusable hi jack. Now we are supposed to argue this until the reasonable person calls it quits. The Lott corrects an egregious sin of the past. Live with it.

This forum has a full time, top level, on going discussion on the very fine 458 wm. No need to wander of the reservation and poison every 45 caliber discussion on the forum. Do, I come to your thread just stir the pot? No.

IM HO you can't go wrong with the #1 for your desired application. I have them in 375 H&H, 405 & 450/400. Brass isn't that hard to come by in the 450/400, in fact I got 100 pieces off the classifieds here and Hornady offers it both as empty cases and factory ammo. I have found the case life to be excellent.

Recoil of either 45-70 or 450 Marlin is heavy with top end loads. Ruger calls it a recoil pad, but mine is nothing but thick hard rubber. I hope to get a LimbSaver on it soon.

+1 LOL recoil can be stout with the pad they put on them! Thats why I load down the 350 JSP and the 405 gr HC

Have you shot any game with the 350 JSP?

I would go with the 45-70. I am also looking for a 45-70 in a lever . I had a 45-70 barrel that I just sold Friday along with my Encore. The reason I sold it is cause the barrel was a short and very light barrel. That gun kicked like I never had a gun kick. I needed to go down to about 12?? gr. of Unique and a cast bullet to enjoy it. When I left the gun shop, I said to myself, I dont own a 45-70 anymore, and suddenly , I wanted one again. The change in mood didnt take 30 minutes, and of course , I have a bear tag for Wisconsin this fall.

I have two Marlins, one a Cowboy with 26” barrel.

I traded a Winchester (Miroku) 1886, which is stronger than the Marlin, the reason a scope is now required for my antique eyes.

I also have a BPCR in .45-70. I shoot 250 gr Barnes at 2,500 fps. That one is a deer killer.

Great old round

DF

I've got one. Ruger made 250 of them in 450 Nitro Express. At 7.5 pounds, it's really too light.....recoil is beyond fierce firing 500gr bullets at 2414fps or even 300 grainers at 3050fps.

I was curious about that one. I opted for the 450/400 version of the same rifle and that works very well.

The 450NE is supposed to fire 480 grains at 2150fps, NOT 2414!! Did you intend to say that or is that an error? That is a big step up in power and pretty irrelevant to a review of the gun in question.

I thought about that and went ahead and got a .458Win Mag in mine.