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Originally Posted by MOGC
Shoot one from inside a car through the windshield. It's a blast... literally.


I bet it would be !


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Originally Posted by TWR
https://youtu.be/8bq3SwNqORU
He couldn’t hear the radio after that. But it can be done.


Now thats an altercation to say the least !

Last edited by bcraig; 01/20/22.

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Originally Posted by bcraig
<Snip!>
By the way ,do you have any input on a good load for home defense using a 10.5" barreled 5.56/.223 AR-15 Pistol ?
At home defense ranges (<40ft) you could about make your projectiles out of rock salt. smile

Any old, shaggy M193 would get it done. 20 feet isn't rocket science.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by bcraig
<Snip!>
By the way ,do you have any input on a good load for home defense using a 10.5" barreled 5.56/.223 AR-15 Pistol ?
At home defense ranges (<40ft) you could about make your projectiles out of rock salt. smile

Any old, shaggy M193 would get it done. 20 feet isn't rocket science.


Thanks


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40 vmax here in case it goes outside due to other houses.

Anything will be loud in a house. It will be life or death. It likely will never happen. I'd not worry the noise part at all.

Most posted here don't get what they posted, they have been in similar and amazing are still alive and can still hear to some extent


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I’m using Federal Fusion 62gr in my ARs. It’s very similar to the stuff we use at work for a lot less money because it’s not “tactical”.

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FWIW since there are a few using stuff that will penetrate walls. Doors. Fridges etc...

68 and the mid 70s stuff BTHP match type bullets will blow through side by side fridges all day long at over 300 yards. FWIW.


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Originally Posted by rost495
40 vmax here in case it goes outside due to other houses.

Anything will be loud in a house. It will be life or death. It likely will never happen. I'd not worry the noise part at all.

Most posted here don't get what they posted, they have been in similar and amazing are still alive and can still hear to some extent


Do you think the 40 Grain Vmax is going to give enough penetration if you were to have to shoot and the angle was anything but a totally frontal shot and still reach the vitals ?

I agree that I will likely never need to use it to protect us and that anything shot in a house is going to loud whether Shotgun
or rifle or handgun..
I hope I never do need it for home defense but would rather be deaf than dead..


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Originally Posted by Gooch_McGrundle
I’m using Federal Fusion 62gr in my ARs. It’s very similar to the stuff we use at work for a lot less money because it’s not “tactical”.


Thanks


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Originally Posted by rost495
FWIW since there are a few using stuff that will penetrate walls. Doors. Fridges etc...

68 and the mid 70s stuff BTHP match type bullets will blow through side by side fridges all day long at over 300 yards. FWIW.


Good info

I wonder How that stuff works at home defense ranges ,whether it tumbles to limit penetration ?
And thereby increasing effectiveness at the short range of a home defensive scenario ?

Last edited by bcraig; 01/23/22.

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Originally Posted by rockinbbar



That's what I consider the best self defense round for .223 in a home defense situation.

But my barrel length is longer than 10.5".

Unless you have a good suppressor, a short barrel going off indoors is like a stun grenade. A 16" is bad enough.


Man... it’s bad OUTSIDE... my dog got into it with a possum a couple years ago and I went out and killed it with my Bushmaster M4’gery. I think my ears are STILL ringing. Way louder than any “hunting rifle” I’ve ever fired without ear protection.

I now keep nice Peltor noise-cancelling earmuff/headphones on a hook next to the in-wall safe I built into my house. That Bushmaster lives in there.... if I have time, I’m putting those things on for sure.

As for ammo I have a mag of 60-grain Partition handloads in the rifle. 55-grn ball after that. It’s my opinion any high-velocity round is highly lethal and I’m not real hung up on bullets for use against American humans. Meaning, an American is going to know he’s been shot and is FUBAR and will react accordingly. Cannot speak to how the round performs against other folks. Some cultures might be made of sterner stuff as far as personal injury. I think the vast majority of Americans home intruders are gonna be pretty “tender”.

Last edited by Jeff_O; 01/23/22.

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“Tender”?

That’s quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.

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Originally Posted by Jeff_O
Originally Posted by rockinbbar



That's what I consider the best self defense round for .223 in a home defense situation.

But my barrel length is longer than 10.5".

Unless you have a good suppressor, a short barrel going off indoors is like a stun grenade. A 16" is bad enough.


Man... it’s bad OUTSIDE... my dog got into it with a possum a couple years ago and I went out and killed it with my Bushmaster M4’gery. I think my ears are STILL ringing. Way louder than any “hunting rifle” I’ve ever fired without ear protection.

I now keep nice Peltor noise-cancelling earmuff/headphones on a hook next to the in-wall safe I built into my house. That Bushmaster lives in there.... if I have time, I’m putting those things on for sure.

As for ammo I have a mag of 60-grain Partition handloads in the rifle. 55-grn ball after that. It’s my opinion any high-velocity round is highly lethal and I’m not real hung up on bullets for use against American humans. Meaning, an American is going to know he’s been shot and is FUBAR and will react accordingly. Cannot speak to how the round performs against other folks. Some cultures might be made of sterner stuff as far as personal injury. I think the vast majority of Americans home intruders are gonna be pretty “tender”.


I want a home defense weapon right beside me and do not want to have to go to a safe to get it.
Then grab earphones off of a hook .
I want the Home defense weapon to be ready to use NOW.

ANY High Velocity or low velocity may or may not be Lethal but Lethality is not the issue .

Stopping the threat is the issue and if a certain round does not penetrate enough to get to the vital organs or mushroom enough "it Pencils through" or yaw enough to do damage to the Vital organs then the threat is still there.

So the reason I asked the Question is to find out about the best rounds for the threat that will give enough penetration to the
Vital organs from any angle and not just create a surface wound that may not stop the threat.

As far as your analogy about bullets for use against American Humans .
Anyone regardless of Nationality or culture will know that they have been shot unless they die instantly, and they will
react accordingly.

.How in the world can anyone make the statement that they think "the majority of American Home intruders are going to be pretty tender "?

They may be on drugs ,or drunk ,certainly something is wrong with their thought process by the fact that they DECIDED to break into my home in the first place.

I don't know anything about the sterner stuff of any person nor anything else about them but they are in my house uninvited and for all I know they are there to kill my wife and I.


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bcraig Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TWR
“Tender”?

That’s quite possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.


I don't know if that is the dumbest thing I've ever herd but it ranks right up there.


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I load 62 gun Bear Claws for mine. The FBI uses Bear Claws.

They do a number on pigs,should work on intruders


Last edited by hanco; 01/23/22.
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You don’t need a lot of penetration to shoot completely thru a 200 lb human front to back. Probably 12” max. A 40 to 60 grain expanding bullet at 2500 +\- should do the trick. If not the next 29 will. Lots of folks on here have shot tougher animals than a thug criminal with such ammo with great success. Best recommendation these days might be ‘whatever you can find’. Cant believe a center thorax hit with an expanding bullet of any weight out of a 5.56 wouldn’t work. Take a look at what’s on the shelf and pick one that makes you happy. Good luck.


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Originally Posted by hanco
I load 62 gun Bear Claws for mine. The FBI uses Bear Claws.

They do a number on pigs,should work on intruders



Thanks for the information


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Originally Posted by shootem
You don’t need a lot of penetration to shoot completely thru a 200 lb human front to back. Probably 12” max. A 40 to 60 grain expanding bullet at 2500 +\- should do the trick. If not the next 29 will. Lots of folks on here have shot tougher animals than a thug criminal with such ammo with great success. Best recommendation these days might be ‘whatever you can find’. Cant believe a center thorax hit with an expanding bullet of any weight out of a 5.56 wouldn’t work. Take a look at what’s on the shelf and pick one that makes you happy. Good luck.
}

Thanks for the information


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Originally Posted by bcraig
Originally Posted by rost495
40 vmax here in case it goes outside due to other houses.

Anything will be loud in a house. It will be life or death. It likely will never happen. I'd not worry the noise part at all.

Most posted here don't get what they posted, they have been in similar and amazing are still alive and can still hear to some extent


Do you think the 40 Grain Vmax is going to give enough penetration if you were to have to shoot and the angle was anything but a totally frontal shot and still reach the vitals ?

I agree that I will likely never need to use it to protect us and that anything shot in a house is going to loud whether Shotgun
or rifle or handgun..
I hope I never do need it for home defense but would rather be deaf than dead..

I suspect if it dumps its energy that its going to slow em down. I can shoot em multiple times. And if the first few dont do it, it goes to the head. The head won't stop it. That I know due to having shot a lot of pigs with it. In fact its broken a lot of spines on running pigs. And while it never exits I've not lost a pig to the round yet expect non fatal like lower leg type hits.

We do keep a mag of TTSX laying with the gun though in case.

I'm not saying 40 is the route, just that due to neighbors and cattle etc... we started using it a year ago and so far its better than I thought.

The heavy bullets do not tumble that I've ever seen from shooting deer and pigs with them fairly close. Never at 10 feet though but not at 10 yards to 50 yards for sure.


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Originally Posted by hanco
I load 62 gun Bear Claws for mine. The FBI uses Bear Claws.

They do a number on pigs,should work on intruders


at this point because the FBI uses something would be more than enough for me to NEVER use what they use as dumb as they have been/become


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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