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SirJerry,
Please do!
We need to have your CFE223 400-grainer load specifics in full detail to put up at www.ammoguide. com.
I am the .400 Whelen Secretary of Load Data there by default.
I will post a bunch more on the.400 Whelen later today.



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Originally Posted by mart
Gunner,

You are so right. Essentially we have a magazine fed 450-400 Nitro Express. Same ballistics with the same bullets. I don’t know that I’ve ever hear a disparaging word about the 450-400. It made its bones and then some.


You bet Mart, i'll also hazard a guess we're at the old Kynoch factory loads for the 404 Jeffrey, iirc they were 400gr at 2150 fps, as we all know, 40 cal and 400 grains from 2050 to 2400 fps [416 Rigby] has been getting it all done in Africa for well over 100 years, in fact, one of my PH's said 40 cal and 400 grains is one of the top penetrators in all of Africa, man i like that.

MedRiver, i hope to read about your buffalo hunt and see pics, that'll be a blast, let me get you some casehead and rim measurements of the Qual-Cart cylindrical brass to make sure the Baco reformed stuff is correct in size, i want full chamber support [snug casehead] running the pressures i run in my rifle.

Sir Ron, you bet, and Thank You Sir, i'll start taking pics, measurements and chrono shortly! cool will have to wait till tomorrow to do some shooting.

And ten four on the load data, i'll grab my load book ; ]

Last edited by gunner500; 01/23/22.

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Gunner500, what about a Hammer 350 or 400 in the Whelen?



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Haven't looked into those buddy, do they make .410/.411 dia bullets? if so,, they may be a real deal, as would 300gr TSX at 2400 fps, that's some easy 300 yard all game hunting right there.


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Gunner500 said "Haven't looked into those buddy, do they make .410/.411 dia bullets? if so,, they may be a real deal, as would 300gr TSX at 2400 fps, that's some easy 300 yard all game hunting right there."

Gunner and all; the factory standard for my Winchester 1895 .405 WCF is a .411 300 grain bullet at 2200 fps and it is easy to safely hand load higher than that.

I found that a 300 grain North Fork bullet at that velocity is deadly on water buffalo and all other game in the US. So, I loaded my .405 WCF with 400 grain .411 Woodie Weldcores to 2100 fps and went to Africa and killed a Cape Buff. This is the velocity equal of the well known 450/400 double rifle which has taken all the game in Africa. It is also 400 Whelen velocity, therefore the sky is the limit for you Wheelies in the US, Africa, and elsewhere!!! Also true for my .405 WCF with appropriate bullets.

Last edited by crshelton; 01/23/22.

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Good stuff CRS, glad to hear all that, just in from pics and chronoing, 400gr Woodleigh broke 2267 fps 20 minutes ago, hows that for stability in ammo loaded for Safari back in the summer of 2015? cool

As we always say, it wont spoil!

BTW, 12 fps extreme spread has never been a bad thing, pics are on the way to Sir Ron as we speak.


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Originally Posted by crshelton
Gunner500 said "Haven't looked into those buddy, do they make .410/.411 dia bullets? if so,, they may be a real deal, as would 300gr TSX at 2400 fps, that's some easy 300 yard all game hunting right there."

Gunner and all; the factory standard for my Winchester 1895 .405 WCF is a .411 300 grain bullet at 2200 fps and it is easy to safely hand load higher than that.

I found that a 300 grain North Fork bullet at that velocity is deadly on water buffalo and all other game in the US. So, I loaded my .405 WCF with 400 grain .411 Woodie Weldcores to 2100 fps and went to Africa and killed a Cape Buff. This is the velocity equal of the well known 450/400 double rifle which has taken all the game in Africa. It is also 400 Whelen velocity, therefore the sky is the limit for you Wheelies in the US, Africa, and elsewhere!!! Also true for my .405 WCF with appropriate bullets.



Olsa Johnson killed 3 Cape Buffalo 🐃 and turned the heard as her husband filmed with 1895 Winchester in 405



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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Nice^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 18 pics just landed at Sir Rons, it'll be good stuff for the guys here building, or thinking about building a 400 Whelen, it is a little hammer, plain and simple.


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It is an amazing work of art, wait for all 18 and then if questions gunner500 can elaborate.
His rifle may be a roadmap for others.

[Linked Image]

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[Linked Image]

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[Linked Image]



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Some reframing of above for emphasis:

Below is a 2.490" case length crimped into a 400-gr bullet ready to fire for first time.
The caliper is spread 2.501" wide.
The reamer chamber length MINIMUM is 2.501", but a few thou of slop in that direction would not be harmful.
One should never let his brass grow longer than 2.490" to avoid a pressure excursion.
Trim to minimum length of 2.480" to 2.485" for safety.
Also, gunner500 may get away with hunting with his fire-forming loads,
but his rifle and die combo may be special, you never know about those tolerances with slop or lack of slop.
Best to fire form your brass with a paper-punching and rabbit hunting bullet
then make serious hunting ammo out of the first reload of said brass.

[Linked Image]

What I have to say about photo below: Wow.
I will enter that load at www.ammoguide.com

[Linked Image]

The fire-formed case is a beautiful thing, ready for serious work.
What was that thing about form following function?
In this CASE, function follows FORM, pun intended.

[Linked Image]



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Just a reminder of the many possibles for .400 Whelen bullets: Any .416-caliber bullet, and there are many.
If Sir Jerry has a hankering for some .411" Nosler partitions made from the 400-grainer .416s, no problemo.

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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Just a reminder of the many possibles for .400 Whelen bullets: Any .416-caliber bullet, and there are many.
If Sir Jerry has a hankering for some .411" Nosler partitions made from the 400-grainer .416s, no problemo.

[Linked Image]


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And man, Gunner that is a sweetheart. What a great set up.


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Many Thanks for posting the pics Sir Ron, and also the offer to draw down some 416's to 411, i appreciate that very much, that partition at 2255 should be a mighty blow striker, speaking of velocities, i dont know what your magic formula is for converting to true muzzle velocity, if 2267 fps at 18 yards away, i was wondering what the true velocity/energy numbers would be, that fired hull on the chrono is a thing of beauty, the primer is perfect, no bolt raceway smear, no firing pin protrusion, the case fell from the chamber like they always have, and pockets remain tight, casehead measurement before and after firing remains negligible.

Notice the load recipe workup, at 68gr i was about to fall into a node spot and wasn't even looking for one in a 250 yard hunting rifle, 65, if i would have loaded 66, 67 and 68 grains gave a rise of only 20 fps per grain of powder, i knew when i picked CFE-223 i'd most likely have a winner with the 400 Whelen, the powder is very compact and dense, packs really well in the case, and to my mind any powder with a burn rate slower than Varget in what is a near straight wall hull will indeed behave like a very slow burning powder in an overbore cartridge.

Thanks for the tip on trim length, i'll go back and trim all fired cases to 2..480 inch and call it good for i bet several more firings, the cases shouldn't grow much at all with that abrupt shoulder, speaking of shoulder, i'll take .459" all day long as i only size .411" length of the neck on fired brass.

That rifle is a little 9.5 lb all up with 6 rounds on board, accurate, great functioning machine, my old 'Smith did a fine job as usual.

Thanks again Sir,

Gunner


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Originally Posted by gunner500
Many Thanks for posting the pics Sir Ron, and also the offer to draw down some 416's to 411, i appreciate that very much, that partition at 2255 should be a mighty blow striker, speaking of velocities, i dont know what your magic formula is for converting to true muzzle velocity, if 2267 fps at 18 yards away, i was wondering what the true velocity/energy numbers would be, that fired hull on the chrono is a thing of beauty, the primer is perfect, no bolt raceway smear, no firing pin protrusion, the case fell from the chamber like they always have, and pockets remain tight, casehead measurement before and after firing remains negligible.

Notice the load recipe workup, at 68gr i was about to fall into a node spot and wasn't even looking for one in a 250 yard hunting rifle, 65, if i would have loaded 66, 67 and 68 grains gave a rise of only 20 fps per grain of powder, i knew when i picked CFE-223 i'd most likely have a winner with the 400 Whelen, the powder is very compact and dense, packs really well in the case, and to my mind any powder with a burn rate slower than Varget in what is a near straight wall hull will indeed behave like a very slow burning powder in an overbore cartridge.

Thanks for the tip on trim length, i'll go back and trim all fired cases to 2..480 inch and call it good for i bet several more firings, the cases shouldn't grow much at all with that abrupt shoulder, speaking of shoulder, i'll take .459" all day long as i only size .411" length of the neck on fired brass.

That rifle is a little 9.5 lb all up with 6 rounds on board, accurate, great functioning machine, my old 'Smith did a fine job as usual.

Thanks again Sir,

Gunner


Sounds like CFE works excellent Gunner. I kinda wonder if Leverevolution isn’t the same or nearly the same powder. Every time I run across data for about any cartridge they’re both used in it’s damned near a spitting image. Might be another option too. Having options these days doesn’t stink.

That’s a slick rig buddy.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
And man, Gunner that is a sweetheart. What a great set up.


Thanks Big Buddy B, i call it the "Weak Sister" to guys i've hunted with, then i drag a deer over that's been train wrecked length ways by a 400gr Woodleigh. LOL


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That Lever may be a star too, that load you gave me for my 35 Remington really sings, and you're exactly right, doesn't hurt to have several choices these days trying to build hunting/defense loads.


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