Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles A couple of 8x57 questions

I tried CFE 223 and was not impressed. RL 15 and 4320 gave me much better results. However, this is in an original m98 1943 barrel.

I love CFE223. My dad has a vet bring back k98 and it doesn't like CFE223 either. He is a big fan of IMR 4064 and RL 15. I like both of those too, I just don't get the velocities that I want. My deer hunting load is a 170 Speer Hot Cor with RL 15 at about 2,600 fps. Not super fast, but deadly effective.

It's certainly worth a shot to try the RL-17. After all you won't know if you don't try.

At some point down the road, if you can find it, try Ramshot BigGame with those 170gr Speers. 54gr netted me 2690fps with that bullet / powder combo and accuracy was 4shots inside ¾inch.

About the same load I use, only Horn. 170 RN. The deer don't complain. I stop dumping powder when I find the accuracy. It will usually shoot 1"- 11/2". Pretty good for the original barrel, but it doesn't do well after cleaning. Needs at least 10-20 rounds thru it until it comes around.

Whenever I find it I will give it a try.

20 years ago I bought a 1903 Turkish Mauser for $45 from BIG5, bent the bolt, drilled and tapped for scope, mounted a big 40x Tasco scope like Varmint Al, and started my first handloading work up

200 gr 3.16" OAL 1960's surplus pull down bulk IMR4895 powder that behaves like canister H322

I worked up in 1 gr increments

42 gr 2541 fps 46kpsi
43 gr 2586 fps 49kpsi
44 gr 2631 fps 52kpsi 2.2" group at 100 meters
45 gr 2675 fps 56kpis 2.25" group at 100 meters
46 gr 2719 fps 59 kpsi 2.25" and top hat primer
47 gr 2762 fps 63kpsi 1.5" group at 100 meters
48 gr 2805 fps 67 kpis 3.3" group at 100 meters slightly sticky bolt
49 gr 2847 fps 71kpsi >4" group at 100 meters and sticky bolt
50 gr 2890 fps 76 kpis >4" group at 100 meters and case base bulge
51 gr 2932 fps 80kpsi 3" group at 100 meters
52 gr 2973 fps 85 kpsi 2.25"group at 100 meters Very sticky bolt

That kicked so hard and wrecked some brass, that I was trying to learn from it.

I reloaded and went back a second day:
46.25 gr >1.9"
46.50 gr 4"
46.75gr 3.4"
47.00 gr 3"
47.25 gr 5"
47.50 gr 2.2"
47.75 gr 2.6"
48.00 gr 4.3"

Clark,

one of my 8 x 57s, is the CZ I got from you....

Don't have quick load, but if you do or some other program, or someone else has quickload,
check to see what the pressure would be with 41 grains of IMR 4198 and a 170 grain Speer SMP...

out of a 29 inch barreled Turk made in like 1945 or so...it chronographed some pretty impressive velocity....

Last deer I shot, I took it with that CZ I got from you.... 170 grain Speer with 30 grains of 4198, shot was under 30 yds as it was chasing a doe in heat.

did a button hook, still chasing the doe, and then just went down dead....that Speer 170 SMP, sure did a job on his insides...

if he hadn't been wired up chasing that doe, he probably would have dropped at the shot...

That 170 gr Speer is a pretty good bullet.

Must be nice having a 29" barrel, because if you miss, you can just reach out and hit them with the end of the barrel.

23" 30 gr = 2000 fps 23kpsi.

My experience is a 270 can flatten a deer and then he gets up and runs away, but a 22 rimfire will drop them in their tracks.... shot placement .... Einstein was always afraid of hidden variables.

I wondered what you would do with that huge jug of 4198.

You were right.

I paired the 195gr Hornady with Reloader 17 in a 100 yard ladder.
195gr Hornady, RL-17, COAL 3.0", WLR, PPU Case.

#1 48.5 2323
#2 48.8 2328
#3 49.1 2321
#4 49.4 2361
#5 49.7 2377
#6 50.0 2395
#7 50.3 2427
#8 50.6 2465
#9 50.9 2472
#10 51.2 2477
#11 51.8 2491

To my eyes it looks like I'm lacking the case capacity to do anything approaching my goal of 2,600 fps with a heavy. Good to know though.

At least you gave it a shot. You never know until you do. Ive seen lots of quick load suggestions giving predictions for great velocities with RL-17 and I was kinda curious, but I think you've not only scratched the itch for you, but me as well.

I haven't been down to just one jug of 4198 in decades.... it is one of my rely on powders...

In a lot of calibers it can equal 30/30 velocities, and I shoot a lot of 30 grain loads of 4198....in a lot of calibers...

30/30 was always good enough for the distances I usually hunt... 200 yds or under.

I get about 2430 fps with 49 grs. of RL15 and the Hornady 195 gr. bullet. It's very accurate in my rifle and plenty enough power for me. Hard to shoot over 100 yds. in my area.

Hornady used to make an 8x57 load that was 2550 fps with their 195 Interlock. That is the benchmark load that I would like to duplicate. One of the things that gets me is that the Germans loaded the cartridge with a 198 at 2575 fps. Why is it so hard to get there now and keep it accurate? Surely, modern powders can get us there. Hell, I've been temped to pull down some S&B 196 SPCE and replace the bullets with 195 Interlocks and be done with it. If S&B can sling that pig SPCE at 2,600 why can't anyone else seem to even get close? I know, I know .318 vs .323 bores. It would be nice if they were kept as separate cartridges at SAAMI. Old commission Gewhar 88 rifles vs 98s and modern actions.

I had some, I think old RWS RN loads, that were right up there as well, but have never chrony'd the S&B. I'd have to look up my notes, but I'm sure when I went above 49 -49.5 grs. of RL 15 accuracy started dropping off. About the same results with 4320.

Hornady shows the 195 @ 2633 fps, as an International load. Not available in the US. WoW. Never knew they made these.

They used to sell that in the US as part #8229. That loading is a hammer on deer, hogs, red stag and everything else that I shot with it. They used to have a 180gr gmx Superformance load for international also. It died when the GMX line died. The new CX line doesn’t have an 8mm offering. I guess the 8x57 is just going to die. Kind of a shame, it kills really well with out a lot of fuss. It isn’t a cool as some super slickery 6.5 ManBun I guess.

I read a good while ago that 4895, don't remember which brand, was the closest burn rate to the WWII powder the Germans used. Don't know if it's true, I only load Unique with cast in mine.

I've used H4895 with 200 grainers. I get the best accuracy around 2475 or so. Which is probably fine. That makes it a solid 300 yard round and plenty of medicine for anything but the big bears.

The 198 grain Portuguese ball ammo had 43-45 grains of flake or ball powder in the several thousand two different lots I had. Full pressure ammo and top notch.
That load weight gives you some idea of burn rate. I pulled some fmj’s and seated 200 Speer bullets for hunting. Great load. Hammered big North country deer.