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I have been using 170 grain Nosler partitions and like them.
(In both my win 94 and Marlin 336)

Nowadays, I see a lot of hype about the Hornady 160 grain FTX.

What are your thoughts on these two bullets for mule deer within 200 yards?

Thanks!


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I've used that 160 FTX load on one blacktail, fastest drt I've ever seen.


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About any round nose 150 to 170 grain bullet.


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I've never used them. A friend did, and you could tell the expansion was rather quick. He said it was the first deer he didn't get full penetration with, and when he skinned it, the bloodshot meat was extensive.

I continue to use 170 grain Hornadys in mine, that's what the rifle prefers.

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Originally Posted by Bugger
About any round nose 150 to 170 grain bullet.


True enough. My old Marlin really likes the 170 gr. Speer and it does a great job on big timber whitetail and hogs.


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I always have used the Sierra gamekings in 30-30 150 or 170 gr. They are accurate and killed great


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I've used Ftx out of my 1925 model 94 32 win special saddle ring Carbine. Seemed pretty accurate, but never shot any critters with it

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I've not had any exceptional results with the lever
factory ammo or the components either one.
Not any more so than the old fashioned stuff I
started out with

I use the Sierra #2000 and 748 or similar powders

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The 160 FTX are accurate, cheap, and available. Shot 1/2” groups at 50 yds with my M94 at 2300 fps using LVR.
I have no first hand experience on terminal effectiveness yet.

Partitions have always been first rate, but these days you need to take out a loan if you miss.

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True that!

Luckily, I bought a few extra boxes of the partitions about three years ago at less than half of what they’re asking for them now.


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I have a loaner Marlin 30-30 shooting handloaded 160 gr FTX bullets which a young boy scout in my troop has used the last two seasons to kill 4 deer. All 4 deer died very....very quickly. The 160 FTX bullet in the primary load for this Marlin now even through I have three other loads worked up from the Sierra 125 gr HP, Speer 130 gr, and the Rem 170 gr core-lokt.

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I have pretty much settled on the 170g NPT in my Win M64. It shoots 1.5" and sometime 1" at 100 yards with LVR producing 2330 fps. I have yet to shoot anything with it yet. I do have a bunch of 160g FTX's loaded up to try however.

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I’ve never used them, and wouldn’t be scared to try them on lighter deer. But, I just don’t see any advantage to them in a 30/30, and maybe some disadvantages where penetration is an even more important factor. I’ve always liked the Sierra 150 or 170 grain FN Pro Hunter in my 30/30s.

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Originally Posted by Vic_in_Va
I've never used them. A friend did, and you could tell the expansion was rather quick. He said it was the first deer he didn't get full penetration with, and when he skinned it, the bloodshot meat was extensive.

I continue to use 170 grain Hornadys in mine, that's what the rifle prefers.


This is what I’ve seen when a couple of friends tried them. Dead is dead I guess. Very rapid expansion, more meat damage than traditional 30/30 bullets, and less penetration.

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Originally Posted by Bugger
About any round nose 150 to 170 grain bullet.



This has been my experience with my 94 Winchesters . Deer don't seem to be able to tell the difference as the results are always the same with any bullet I use.


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I can't see wasting money on premium bullets for a .30-30 when plain old cup-n-cores work very well. Maybe if I were planning on shooting a moose with my .30-30 I'd spring for some partitions but for deer hell no.

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Originally Posted by Blackheart
I can't see wasting money on premium bullets for a .30-30 when plain old cup-n-cores work very well. Maybe if I were planning on shooting a moose with my .30-30 I'd spring for some partitions but for deer hell no.


I understand that, but where I hunt elk are on the menu in the timber and more and more prevalence of Grizzlies.

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Originally Posted by Blackheart
I can't see wasting money on premium bullets for a .30-30 when plain old cup-n-cores work very well. Maybe if I were planning on shooting a moose with my .30-30 I'd spring for some partitions but for deer hell no.


I understand that, but where I hunt elk are on the menu in the timber and more and more prevalence of Grizzlies.
In that case I'd probably take my .30-06 and leave the .30-30 at home.

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That is what I have done. The 30-30 hasn't been out of the safe to go hunting in 3 years. But I do want to still take it. It is usually my .358 Win or .338-06 that I take in that country.

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Only bullet to use is Cutting Edge Bullets 130 gr. ESP Raptor with no tip....for deer best bullet made....wouldn't hesitate using it on a moose.....turns lungs into jello....

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/308-130gr-esp-raptor

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Originally Posted by coyotewacker
Only bullet to use is Cutting Edge Bullets 130 gr. ESP Raptor with no tip....for deer best bullet made....wouldn't hesitate using it on a moose.....turns lungs into jello....

https://cuttingedgebullets.com/308-130gr-esp-raptor


They state 1-11" or faster twist. That would be a no go for the Winchester.

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You’re just going to piss off a grizzly if you start shooting it with a 30-30 in my opinion.


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I'm a fan of cast bullets and have learned to tailor the alloy and hardness to the intended velocity. I had custom HP jigs made to drill my cast bullets. That changed things a bit but I worked that out too.


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I’ve always been partial to the Remington fn when you could get them. Since them once used sierras with good results.

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Originally Posted by Blackheart
I can't see wasting money on premium bullets for a .30-30 when plain old cup-n-cores work very well. Maybe if I were planning on shooting a moose with my .30-30 I'd spring for some partitions but for deer hell no.


I understand that, but where I hunt elk are on the menu in the timber and more and more prevalence of Grizzlies.



In your case I'd load the Barnes 150 TSX .if you can find any .


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Partitions won't work?


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Originally Posted by Bugger
You’re just going to piss off a grizzly if you start shooting it with a 30-30 in my opinion.


Why would anyone purposely shoot a grizzly with a 30-30 these days?

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Originally Posted by Bugger
You’re just going to piss off a grizzly if you start shooting it with a 30-30 in my opinion.

That depends 100% upon where you place those rounds.

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We use the Barnes 150 with 748 powder. Really makes this great cartridge shine.


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I have about 500 of the 150gr Barnes and 200 of the 170gr Nosler PT.

Great woods bullets in the 30-30 on up!


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Originally Posted by WTM45
Originally Posted by Bugger
You’re just going to piss off a grizzly if you start shooting it with a 30-30 in my opinion.

That depends 100% upon where you place those rounds.

Sure and you can kill grizzly bears with 9mm pistols. Using a 30-30 on a grizzly would be an act of a desperate person. Just plain stupid otherwise.


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Originally Posted by Bugger
Originally Posted by WTM45
Originally Posted by Bugger
You’re just going to piss off a grizzly if you start shooting it with a 30-30 in my opinion.

That depends 100% upon where you place those rounds.

Sure and you can kill grizzly bears with 9mm pistols. Using a 30-30 on a grizzly would be an act of a desperate person. Just plain stupid otherwise.


Of course it would be an act of desperation, the man is not hunting bears he is hunting mule deer.

If bear defense is a requirement, I'd surely not trade the .30-30 for any sidearm.

Old Crab, stick with the Partition load. I have tested both the FTX and Partition, and I'd not give up the penetration and performance on game for a minor improvement in trajectory.


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Quote
I'd not give up the penetration and performance on game for a minor improvement in trajectory.


Exactly why I have not tried the gummy tipped bullets. My .30-30 and .45-70 are what they are.

I live with the trajectory limitations of both rounds when I use them. With proper bullets, they are very good at what they do.

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I have loaded the Speer 170 grain FP bullet for many years. My rifles like the load. Recently I loaded up 60 with that FTX bullet. It seems accurate, but I have not hunted with it yet.


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Best defense against a Grizzly is a climbable tree or a slow companion. I understand that unlike our black bears that Grizzlies don't climb . Git high and shoot him out from under the tree with whatever you have .


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This is funny. A griz can out run a race horse in 100 yards, and you are going to climb a tree and escape!!


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Originally Posted by Bugger
You’re just going to piss off a grizzly if you start shooting it with a 30-30 in my opinion.


Subject to debate. A lot of griz and moose have died from the lowly 30-30.

My walk-about is a '94. In brown bear country. They be bigger than griz. I haven't ever had to shoot a a griz or brown (with anything) , but it's done fine on on couple blacks (actually it was the 336, but still...). ..

30-30 has greater muzzle energy than a .44 Mag handgun, and is easier to shoot accurately, but a lot of people believe a .44 is the carry gun for bear. Could be, if it isn't leaning against a tree a few yards off, as a rifle might be. I'll stick with the '94.

My first moose was taken with a 336 at about 50 yards, 170 gr r.n. through both lungs and out...

Originally Posted by EddieSouthgate
Best defense against a Grizzly is a climbable tree or a slow companion. I understand that unlike our black bears that Grizzlies don't climb . Git high and shoot him out from under the tree with whatever you have .


Don't believe everything you read.

There is a local up here who had a sow brown bear (griz's bigger brother) with cubs come up the tree at his black bear bait site. About 16' IIRC. The rifle muzzle was between his feet and inches from the bear's head when he touched her off. I guess she just jumped? smile. Black bear season was open, brown bear season not... and of course the cubs...so it was investigated.

Somewhere in the archives there is an account.

As WCH indicated - a griz/brown can go from 0 to 30 in 3 jumps - maybe 16 feet?

There are times a tree will work, depending mostly on the bear's distance and behavior, mostly, but many more when it won't. Like when there isn't a tree within miles... Even if one reaches the tree first and the bear stays on the ground, 10' up is as low as you better be - and that takes time, especially carrying a rifle up with you. If you do.

I also took my first deer with the '94, in 1966. Nothing since. I do have 2/ 1/2 boxes of FTX left to try out. They seem more accurate than the 150's and 170 C&C I have. Interestingly, they (160's ) print just over 2 inches higher than the 150's. If I try them on game at all, it will probably be caribou, out to 200 yards. I carry 170's for walk about. Or maybe I'll use the 150's on the caribou, if I get the chance.

Last edited by las; 02/05/22.

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Originally Posted by WyoCoyoteHunter
This is funny. A griz can out run a race horse in 100 yards, and you are going to climb a tree and escape!!

they don't climb as fast as they run. Last bear I killed was climbing up to my stand, but a .44 Mag to the brain took care of that.


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I can't see the need for partitions at 30-30 velocities. It's been awhile,but just about any semi jacketed flat point bullet in a170 gr with 3031 powder worked for me.


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You guys going after a grizzly with your 30-30’s crack me up. Just because it’s possible to kill a grizzly with a 9mm or a 30-30 doesn’t make sense to go out and try it. Sure if a grizzly came at me and I had a 30-30 I’d be shooting. Hopefully get it in the first shot.
How many well placed shots can a person get at a charging grizzly?

Hell, I’ve read were an Eskimo woman killed a polar bear with a 22LR.

Just because it has been done, does not mean is shows good sense to do it.

Tell others that it’s a great rifle for grizzlies, then live with yourself after they are dead or nearly dead.


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Originally Posted by Old_Crab
I have been using 170 grain Nosler partitions and like them.
(In both my win 94 and Marlin 336)

Nowadays, I see a lot of hype about the Hornady 160 grain FTX.

What are your thoughts on these two bullets for mule deer within 200 yards?

Thanks!


I like the FTX in most instances. They have treated me right on deer and hogs in a few calibers, while flattening trajectory a bit when trying to get a bit more yardage out of an level gun.


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Originally Posted by Blackheart
I can't see wasting money on premium bullets for a .30-30 when plain old cup-n-cores work very well. Maybe if I were planning on shooting a moose with my .30-30 I'd spring for some partitions but for deer hell no.


I killed a Moose with 170 grain Silvertips. And they lost almost no weight. I don't know what I'd need Partitions for?

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Originally Posted by moosemike
Originally Posted by Blackheart
I can't see wasting money on premium bullets for a .30-30 when plain old cup-n-cores work very well. Maybe if I were planning on shooting a moose with my .30-30 I'd spring for some partitions but for deer hell no.


I killed a Moose with 170 grain Silvertips. And they lost almost no weight. I don't know what I'd need Partitions for?
I never shot a moose but I killed a bunch of deer with 170 grain silvertips. That was my favorite .30-30 load/bullet for many years.. I still curse the day the bean counters at Winchester saw fit to discontinue them.

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Those were my favorite, too.

Never a complaint from shooter or shootee. They just worked.

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Yup. Silvertips were my favorite for many years. I still have a box but I won't use them

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Originally Posted by Bugger


Tell others that it’s a great rifle for grizzlies, then live with yourself after they are dead or nearly dead.


Did someone say that? If so, I missed it. And I would then agree with you!


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I thought the? was about deer hunting, I like Speer's 130gr Hot Cor or Hornady's 135gr FTX in my 336.Loaded to around 2550 fps.


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Originally Posted by doubleDs55
I thought the? was about deer hunting, I like Speer's 130gr Hot Cor or Hornady's 135gr FTX in my 336.Loaded to around 2550 fps.



Curious if you killed any deer with those bullets? Curious on performance at those speeds.

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Originally Posted by doctor_Encore
Originally Posted by doubleDs55
I thought the? was about deer hunting, I like Speer's 130gr Hot Cor or Hornady's 135gr FTX in my 336.Loaded to around 2550 fps.



Curious if you killed any deer with those bullets? Curious on performance at those speeds.

Yes several years now, very impressed. The 135 FTX works great also.


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Originally Posted by Tarbe
Originally Posted by Bugger


Tell others that it’s a great rifle for grizzlies, then live with yourself after they are dead or nearly dead.


Did someone say that? If so, I missed it. And I would then agree with you!


The only thing that is important evidently is where you hit the bear. Energy, velocity, caliber, bullet choice is no longer important.

If I were hunting in an area where there’s danger of being face to face with a grizzly mother and cubs I would choose something more, in my mind, suited for my own protection than a 30-30. I certainly would not like that possibility with any rifle. But I would carry with more authority than the 30-30.

In my first elk hunt near the Nez Pierce (sp?) pass near the Selway River I was watching an opening until dusk. When I turned to go back to camp I saw big bear tracks that came up close behind me. That near encounter changed my mind on a minimum elk rifle in that area. Also, while near the tree line in Colorado while scouting for elk we saw a grizzly - not near as close this time, but we wondered what we were doing there with no rifle at all.

Many of you that are around grizzlies more than I may feel different. But as for me I am well armed while in big bear in big bear country.

Last edited by Bugger; 02/15/22.

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When I went to hunt Cape Buffalo on purpose, I used a 450 Dakota.

Can you kill one with a 338? Sure. Is it "great" for Cape Buffalo? I don't think so.

Same deal for the 30-30 and Bear.

I bought hundreds of 150gr TSXFN for 30 cents each and if I ever hunted deer or elk in grizzly country with a 30-30, I'd be sure using the X bullet. Actually, I'd probably use my 300 or 375 H&H. smile


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I personally saw a pig that was shot with the Hornady 160 where the bullet entered in the front part of the right hindquarter and exited in front of the left shoulder. I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes. I don’t know how it was possible unless the bullet failed to open up.

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For deer sized animals whichever of the above bullets shoots best and you can find will work. For bigger critters, NPT.

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Originally Posted by Bugger
Originally Posted by WTM45
Originally Posted by Bugger
You’re just going to piss off a grizzly if you start shooting it with a 30-30 in my opinion.

That depends 100% upon where you place those rounds.

Sure and you can kill grizzly bears with 9mm pistols. Using a 30-30 on a grizzly would be an act of a desperate person. Just plain stupid otherwise.


Guide I had in the Yukon, when I was hunting caribou, had a beat up 30-30 with 170 grain Remington core-lokts sitting in the corner of the cook cabin and used it (he said) on a few ornery grizzlies over the years said it killed them just fine…..like everything else depends on where you put the bullet.

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I have 2 30-30 's, a Marlin 336 and Win Mod 64, and most the deer I've killed have been with these rifles, just love em because also love hunting with iron sights.
All my deer have fallen to mostly Win PowerPoint and few to Rem CL, but I ran out in 2020.
I sure wish I had some the old Silvertips, believe they would be close to a PowerPoint in performance. What other 2 bullets have proved themselves any better than these 2 on all North American game, the Rem CL right with them!
I tried for ever to get Speer Hot Cor's, but couldn't get them because all the troubles. They're an outstanding bullet in the 30-30 I know by others, and in most any caliber.
So I went to Hawks, ordered 250 170gr FN, and on the door step in just over a month, right in the worse of times of early 2020!
I'd heard it for years "why waste money on a premium bullet for the 30-30 "? Finally come to my senses, especially nowadays, Why Not! And the kind of fine people and service I got from Hawk, that's probably all I'll use in my Mod 64 from now on! But I still have a decent supply of the Hornady 160 ftx for my Marlin. It shoots them so well I've learned, and a 160gr going 2325fps, is a dandy load. From what I've heard, I believe the ftx will work fine. I have no doubt the Hawks will!
But when I shoot at a fine animal, I want the best bullet I can get, regardless of caliber!

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I have had outstanding results with the 160 ftx in old 300 savage 99 s.

So it should be very useful in a 336 30/30


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Luckily, my hunting grounds for mule deer in the pine-covered hills of eastern Washington have no griz or browns!
Black bear and cougar are the predators you might run into, maybe….
The 170 grain partition out of a win94 will do just fine.

If I was in big-bear country, I would be packing my 06’ with a 200 grain partition traveling at 2,650 fps, not my 30-30😊


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Are the 150 grain silvertips good as the 170 in performance?.. mb


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I've been testing loads in my Mod 64 Win with the 160g ftx, and have settled on them now in that rifle and am more than pleased! 2,420fps with LVR Powder, very accurate, and near 300 Savage performance when looking at the Ballistics. The bullet is a proven performer on deer by too many people I've talked too.

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Originally Posted by Magnum_Bob
Are the 150 grain silvertips good as the 170 in performance?.. mb


You don't get the same penetration but they get plenty for Deer. I wouldn't want them on Elk or Moose

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I have never used a .30-30 on anything larger than black bear. But I have killed several black bear with .30-30's, and witness even more (my bear hunting partners)...Enough that I went to 150's for everything I use a .30-30 for. I was unable to discern any difference in performance between 150-170 grain on everything from Coyote's to, Deer, to Black Bear. 150's get the job done just fine, and do it with a touch less recoil.

That said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a 170 in a .30-30...they're very proven killers.

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The bullets that are loaded in factory 30-30s perform well at 30-30 velocity. In my experience they shoot through deer and leave a good exit hole. They were popular when I was young when people ran deer with dogs. some of the old timers could work the lever fast and were very effective with them.

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Originally Posted by GunGeek
I have never used a .30-30 on anything larger than black bear. But I have killed several black bear with .30-30's, and witness even more (my bear hunting partners)...Enough that I went to 150's for everything I use a .30-30 for. I was unable to discern any difference in performance between 150-170 grain on everything from Coyote's to, Deer, to Black Bear. 150's get the job done just fine, and do it with a touch less recoil.

That said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a 170 in a .30-30...they're very proven killers.


This is my experience also. I prefer the 170's for several small reasons.

Ken Waters wrote in at least two articles the 150 grain bullets put deer on the ground quicker.


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I've killed my last 4 deer with a 30-30, 150g Win PP, or Rem CL, no tracking on any these. I never recovered my last I shot with a 150g Sierra. No blood, nothing! Me?
But I'm going to the Hornady 160FTX now because I have a very good and accurate load, 2420fps. But the 150s get the job done, and my rifles shot them accurately! I believe whichever your rifle shoots the most accurate, is the best way to go!

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Bought 2 bxs of 30-30 Fed. 150 gr/ this afternoon in Walmart. Don't really need it, but handy to have if one of my friends needs some..


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FYI - Midway has a sale price on 170gr RN Partitions right now. Just added to my pile...


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I have shot exactly one animal, a small mule deer buck, with a .30-.30. It was my first deer so I remember it well. 75 yards, quartering to and facing uphill. Hit the point of the near shoulder with a green box 150. Flipped down the hill and that was that. I think Hogwild is right; Core-Lokt works great when not pushed too fast and sent to the right address.


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I think the Hornaday 160 grain FTX gummy bear deal.

Is a good deal.


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