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Originally Posted by SKane
Bobby,
Sounds like you might want to consider traveling the very slippery thermal-scope-slope.


I have never warmed up to them. Plus, the models I have been vaguely interested in featured nonsensical (to me) features like Bluetooth, video recording, etc. I have no need for any of that stuff. To me, all the bells and whistles just add to to the potential of something going wrong.

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Originally Posted by BobbyTomek
Originally Posted by MosesTucker


Thank you so much. Very helpful. Of the two Minox scopes you’ve listed, would I gain any low light Advantage going with the larger 56mm?


The 56 won't appear to be any brighter given equal exit pupils. The only edge you may gain is being able to use a sightly higher magnification and transferring a tad more detail to your eye. But those differences are minimal and almost impossible to detect in the field. When you get to glass of this quality level, a 50mm objective has proven to be more than sufficient for my usage. In fact, my favorite low-light scope overall is the Docter Basic 2.5-10x50 or its twin (Noblex Vario N4 2.5-10x50).

One other thought on higher magnifications: An overlooked facet is AO/SF. With very shallow depth of field in poor lighting, there can be occasions when more precise focus of the image can be beneficial, though I can only think of one single situation when I actually took advantage of SF. I was using a ZE5i 3-15x56 and was having a tough time discerning the edges and positioning of a moonlight coyote as it was blending into the frost-burned winter grass.


Would you recommend the Docter over the Minox for low light application?

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Originally Posted by BobbyTomek
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard

Bobby, how did you come to have experience with so many high quality optics? How does the VAT work out?


I've addressed this before, so here's a very short summary. When my health deteriorated to a point that I could no longer get out and stalk, I knew my only options were sniping unsuspecting coyotes and hogs from the front yard here at our farm. But they rarely show in good daylight. So I sold off a number of my guns and began experimenting with optics in an attempt to find the perfect low-light scope. Of course, that does not exist LOL.

As to VAT and customs, just as you would do here in the states, you learn to shop around, find VAT-free items or tax-free offerings and sales. Also, Optics Trade occasionally offers free international priority shipping. A recent item I was looking at (cost app. $1000) had an expedited shipping offering of $69.90 via UPS -- and that included all customs fees).


Thanks!

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The Docter scopes have not been made in years and are virtually impossible to find. But for my eyes and my usage, yes -- I'll take a Docter over the Minox when it comes to moonlight and low-light applications. With that being said, I could live happily ever-after with a Minox ZE5i or the new All-Rounder.

Also, if anyone is purchasing a ZE5i,make sure the serial # is above 32201900. The very early run did not have the adjustable illumination curve feature. At its dimmest setting on those original scopes, it's a bit too bright for the lowest of light.

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I have been impressed with the Meopta Optiika 6 3-18x50mm ....I replaced my Leupold VX-5 HD and do not regret it.

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All this talk of Minox—how are they mechanically? I read a couple of reports about not retaining zero but I don’t know exactly what line that was and if it was just a fluke.

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Zeiss Victory HT if you can find one.

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Originally Posted by BillyE
All this talk of Minox—how are they mechanically? I read a couple of reports about not retaining zero but I don’t know exactly what line that was and if it was just a fluke.


I've used a number of them and have had no problems when it comes to tracking or reliability, etc. The very early ZA5 scopes did have an issue with the ocular, but that was corrected -- and Minox quickly took care of the few that slipped past QC.

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Generally, any of the high end large objective scopes will do really well. I tend to use the Tangent 3-15x50 TT315M, like the gentleman above, but if you can spend the cash on S&B Polar 4-16x56, it will be probably do a hair better.

That having been said, before you spend that much money, I would try Meopta Meostar R1 3-12x56 or R2 2.5-15x56. The first one is definitely within your current budget and you'd be surprised how well they do in low light.

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I have a number of S&Bs.
This past season was my first for one of these.
https://www.optics-trade.eu/us/schmidt-bender-klassik-hungaria-8x56.html
At 22:oz. It's one of the lightest ..big scopes
It works very well in low light.

Dave


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Originally Posted by Ringman
The 56mm objective has 25.44% more area than the 50mm objective. That's huge!

How would you like to get a 25.44% raise in your income?
You can't use any exit pupil larger than your eye's pupil diameter.
However, you could get the same exit pupil diameter at a higher magnification.


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Pretty sure most of all the scopes mention will do what you ask and more. It all comes down to your eyes. Swarovski does it for my eyes. Z3s are fine, Z5s are built for more recoil. I use Z5s and can shoot far after legal shooting hours. They work

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Just about any scope and a Q-beam works for me.

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I`ve heard this before from a few friends..my question, was the side adjustment set correctly? Focus? 200 yrds is not that far, with that glass, if set properly, to see defination.

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[Linked Image]I went through this exercise a couple of years ago. Bobby was a big help but I could not afford the Polar and went for lesser S&B. Scopes are a hobby for me and I have S&B's, Swaros, Zeiss, Khales, Steiner, Night Force, Minox, IOR, etc. that I own and use. I have a little bit of knowledge about what is good for my eyes but it does not mean my experience translates to what is good for others. Everyone's eyes and perceptions are different.

My low light South Texas Bacon solution at the time was the S&B Klassik 8x56 and it is definitely the best in low light than anything else I have looked through. With moonlight over a pasture, I can hunt all night. I am going on my third year with it and I love it. The 8x56 has been the standard in Europe since the '90s for low light hunting. It was on a Ruger Scout in 450 BM and is now on a Custom Mauser in 450 BM. The scope was in QD mounts and I had a NECG rear Peep sight that would be quickly installed on the rear base for a backup or when peep sights made more sense than a scope. The QD Maxima Rings hold zero. For me and my use, the size of the scope does not bother the handling of this 16" Carbine for me in the truck (Yes, we hunt Hogs from the truck), in the brush, or out of a stand.

At $700, it is almost half of your scope budget and puts you into something that will likely impress you as long as you are hunting.

https://www.optics-trade.eu/us/schmidt-bender-klassik-hungaria-8x56.html

BTW, that Zeiss VX-5 you are using now is no slouch in low light and it would not be a mistake to continue using it.


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…My low light South Texas Bacon solution at the time was the S&B Klassik 8x56 and it is definitely the best in low light than anything else I have looked through. With moonlight over a pasture, I can hunt all night. I am going on my third year with it and I love it.

At $700, it is almost half of your scope budget and puts you into something that will likely impress you as long as you are hunting.

https://www.optics-trade.eu/us/schmidt-bender-klassik-hungaria-8x56.html

BTW, that Zeiss VX-5 you are using now is no slouch in low light and it would not be a mistake to continue using it.

[/quote]

Interesting to open up and read this post to the thread. I was getting ready to ask if anyone had used this exact model so your personal experience is very helpful! Right now I’m leaning towards buying the 8x56 Klassik, and then working towards a better set of binoculars.

Sweet setup there in the pic.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by Ringman
The 56mm objective has 25.44% more area than the 50mm objective. That's huge!

How would you like to get a 25.44% raise in your income?
You can't use any exit pupil larger than your eye's pupil diameter.
However, you could get the same exit pupil diameter at a higher magnification.


I have prooved time and again exit pupil means nothing. An example would be my Minox 13X56 binoulars vs Bushnell 6500 4 1/2-30X50 scope. The binocular has TWO 56mm objectives while the scope has only one 50mm objective. And yet when I set the scope on 13X and compared them on the deer antlers 131 yards away the scope lasted two minutes longer.

I have several comparisons like this. I will include the Minox15X58 binocular smokes the Minox 13X56 by several minutes. I don't see how 2mm objective makes that much difference.


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Exit pupil is only 1 variable that affects light to your eye



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A few comments:

-This comes up again and again, so I will just clarify that exit pupil does not mean anything for Ringmaster's eyes. For human eyes, it makes a significant difference.

-It is incorrect that your eye can not use an exit pupil larger than the eye pupil. It can and it does, by moving slightly and superimposing images in your brain for greater detail and contrast comprehension. There is, of course a limit to how larger of an exit pupil you can use and the compromise (for variable scopes) is between exit pupil and magnification. As the light gets lower and your eye pupils dilate, the exit pupil takes on an increasingly greater importance.

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Originally Posted by koshkin
A few comments:

-This comes up again and again, so I will just clarify that exit pupil does not mean anything for Ringmaster's eyes. For human eyes, it makes a significant difference.

-It is incorrect that your eye can not use an exit pupil larger than the eye pupil. It can and it does, by moving slightly and superimposing images in your brain for greater detail and contrast comprehension. There is, of course a limit to how larger of an exit pupil you can use and the compromise (for variable scopes) is between exit pupil and magnification. As the light gets lower and your eye pupils dilate, the exit pupil takes on an increasingly greater importance.

ILya



^^^^^^ This

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