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Really thinking about a Winchester 1886 45-90 at the lgs...

Are there any smokeless recipes for reloading?
I have IMR 4895, IMR 4320 and 4064. Thinking of a 400 or 405 jsp bullet.

Why should I avoid this rifle?

There's quite a bit of info on the 1886 45-90. There was an article in a Handloader quite a while back. and I think that Ken Waters wrote an article on it besides that one. I have a 45-70 in a 1886 and a 45-90 in a 1885 Winchester.
If you're going to shoot black powder, then the 45-90 would be the best choice, IMO. The 45-90's had slower twist in the old 1886's, better for cast bullets, not sure about heavy jacketed bullets though.

My old buddy used 3031 in mine with 400’s before he passed it to me.

I'm still on the fence. History tells me not to pass on something that is there...

Components, especially brass are tough right now for the 45-90 from what I can find.

Grafs has 45-90 Starline in stock tight now

Enabler.

My Miroku/Winchester 1886 45-90 has the same twist as the 1886 45-70. I have actually shot more stateside game with .factory 45-70 ammo than with 45-90 ammo. My 1886 went to Africa with hand loaded and custom 45-90 ammo and took an elephant with 450 grain solids at 2150 fps. Shoots through Cape buff easily.


Yes, search on Internet for 45-90 Express and you will find some such loads.

Jorge,
I just love the way an Internet search can find the answers to so many "hard to answer" questions.

I have answered many questions by just recommending an Internet search on "45-90 express" . That type search reveals many other helpful pieces of information.

Thanks! I've been looking, but like to ask sometimes.

Haven't decided yet - although your input is very influential.

R&M
If you buy a standard Miroku made1886 you have a very good 45-70.

If you buy a Miroku made 1886 in 45-90, you have two very good new rifles. 45-70 and 45-90. Both cartridges are accurate in my 1886 45-90.

And do not listen to jealous comments that you should not shoot 45-70 in a 45-90! What ignorance - of course you can, why else would Winchester have designed the 45-90 1886 that way?
In fact, you can intermix the two different length cartridges in the magazine. Also ignore the comments saying that a 45-70 can easily equal the top velocities of the 45-90! Not logical.
The 300 grain bullet leaving a 45-70 case enters the 45-90 barrel before it exits the case. Go measure it like I did. Same for longer bullets. There is no "jump" from case to barrel.

Best wishes on your search and buying decision and please post pictures of whatever you buy.

Ken Waters article on the 45-90 in an 1886, it was in the Handloader March 1986.
Mike Venturino wrote an article on the 45-90 which I found in “Big Bore Rifles and Cartridges”. I’m not sure of the date of the article but he looks young in the photos.
There was an earlier article in either the Handloader or Rifle. If I can find it, I will share info on it.

Bugger,
That 45-90 article may be the one Ken put on page 637 dated March 1986 in his big red book "Ken Waters Pet Loads". A book worth the money.

I saw the article from Mike V long ago but before I had my .45-90.

Always enjoyed both writers.

Bugger,
That 45-90 article may be the one Ken put on page 637 dated March 1986 in his big red book "Ken Waters Pet Loads". A book worth the money.

I saw the article from Mike V long ago but before I had my .45-90.

Always enjoyed both writers.

All else being equal, the larger-capacity case can either equal the velocity of the smaller case with less pressure, or have higher velocity with equal pressure.

I like the concept of a .45-90 with a twist tight enough to stabilize something like the (defunct?) Beartooth Bullets Piledriver.

Vic
Thank you for a good job clarifying my statement for the slow witted among us!

Also, for modern rifles made by Miroku the twist is the same as the 45-70. Is that not 1/20 twist? What twist would you need to stabilize the Piledriver? I have loaded Beartooth 325 grain bullets in my 45-90 but never needed a bullet heavier than the 450 grain Punch or 450 grain North Fork solids. Care to elaborate?

You're welcome, and I was not implying slow-wittednes on your part.

That physical property came to me in an epiphany while experimenting with the .30-06 AI. I had a certain velocity in mind and was skeptical of getting it and being comfortable with the pressure being generated once I started.

It occurred to me the .300 WinMag could do it with ease. Duhhh....

I unscrewed the AI barrel, put a new one on, and chambered it in regular ol' .30-06, then bought a .300 WinMag. Afterwards I sold the .300, wasn't needed because the .308 had become my favorite. Haven't used my '06 in a while. At one time, I had rifles in .30-30, .308, .30-06, and .300 WinMag. I guess you could say all I was missing was a .30 Carbine.

That's how I think/do.....But I have fun...(grin)

RE:bullet twist. 1-20 is quite sufficient for the Piledriver, but given the bullets you are using, there is no need for it, the ones you are using have proven themselves sufficient. I found the Piledriver Jr (advertised as 425 grains, weighed 436) to do anything I wanted or would want to do with a .45-70 and I favor that weight more.

My 1886 45-70 may someday be a 45-90, IDK. I think the 45-90 could possibly the ultimate Bison cartridge.
My 1885 has fast enough twist to stabilize 500+ grain cast bullets with long ogives. I have not shot much jacketed bullets in the 45-70 and none in the 45-90 - there’s no need for jacketed bullets in the 45’s, IMO.

I think the 45-90 could possibly the ultimate Bison cartridge."

Indeed. Left over African loads - 450 Kodiak at 2150 fps from 1886 45-90. - used at hill country ranch on a running bison at 45 yards- shot through both shoulders and dropped Bison. bullet exited off side and not recovered.. Hats in the air from spectators. Took a while to process carcass, but was good meat.

Gentlemen, I'm sorry to disappoint.

I went with A M94 30-30 sporter. Determining factor for me was the availability of components - I have most of what I need already for the 30-30. I'll run 170 partitions and be happy. Also, The price difference between the two rifles was about 1400. Just not in the cards right now for the 45-90. It'll remain on the radar though.

And recoil is a lot less than that 45-90

My 45-90 can be loaded anywhere from MILD to WILD . Wild is well up into .458 Win Mag range and that is rarely justified.

What brand reloading dies are you guys using for the 45-90?
As far as the current crop of Winchester 1886's go, any issues with these rifles feeding, ejecting, or holding up to the smokeless 45-90 loads?

Lyman 45-90 dies.

Also never any issues with loading any ammo, whether 45-70 or 45-90.

Nor any complaints on the metal butt plate.

My 1886 is a TD and that has also been handy.

Mine has a Marbles folding tang sight and folding barrel sight on 26 inch octagon barrel.

No scope.

Try Buffalo Arms for reloading supplies...I see they have dies in stock.

Lyman’s are good as they include their “M” neck expanding die in case you intend to load cast.

Only precaution is test for throat fit and functioning before loading up a batch.

A lot of the 1886 miroku's I've seen are marked black powder only on top the barrel flat. You guys shooting smokeless in that? Just asking..mb

Am getting sleepy.............zzzzzzzzz...

They are mark thusly due to no SAAMI pressure spec for smokeless 45-90.

And yes, we are shooting smokeless in those Miroku 45-90 rifles.

For example, Miroku TD 1886 45-90 used in Africa with 450 grain solids at 2150 fps took ele, buff, leopard, etc.

Love the 1886. They done got hard to put my hands on. I'll find one for a fair price one day, maybe.

This forum is a bad influence on my gun fund. I just ordered a Winchester 1886 in 45-90. Wished it was a take down model but it is not.
For those who are interested in the price, $1,570 shipped

PS: Maybe I should of checked for brass first. Seems both Starline and Buffalo Arms are out of stock. Buffalo Bore doesnt offer it. Oh well, it will pop up sooner or later.

Congratulations and welcome to the club. Please post pics and updates on your shooting.

Thanks,
Amazon surprised me and had reloading dies. Bullets are easy to find. Just have to wait for brass. If all else fails can load up some 45-70’s. I think these old eyes will break tradition and order a Turnbull red dot sight mount and maybe a Burris fast fire 3.

Another .45-90 but not a lever action:


Beretta 45-90/45/70 DR with 26 inch barrels and scope on QD mounts.
Just recently finished and regulated by Aaron Little. Same smith that regulated my Simson - Suhl .405 double and if anything, he did at least as good a job on this one.
L&R at 45 yards had bullet holes over lapping and at 100 they are side by side! First game taken was an African Blackbuck at 100 yards on a Texas exotic ranch and the result was dramatic - NF 350SS at 2400-2500 fps. Will test with chrony later this fall.
I know it was over kill, but very accurate over kill. I look forward to cooler fall weather and MUCH bigger game this fall.

PS I posted this in this section as it seemed appropriate as there are other 45-90 posts here.

Beautiful Rifle

Gorgeous rifle crshelton. Mr Little does some amazing work.

I bought a life time supply when it was available. Good luck

Found 100 pieces of new Starline so set for a while. Now on a bullet search. Thinking 350-400 grain for deer. Not that a bullet that heavy is needed, but the weight should suit the chambering and the rifle.

300 gr cast will kill any deer that ever lived.

Congrats on finding the brass.

Agreed that 300 grain .458 bullets are plenty for any deer or African Leopard for that matter.

My 1886 and DR .45-90 both shoot NF 350 SS very well and should kill over their weight.

I really like Starline 45-90 brass.

I have shot a lot of 300 grain .458" jacketed bullets. Still do. I tried the Remington but found that it comes apart at my 45-70 Marln/Ruger loads of 2060 fps. Even in our PA whitetails. The Hornady does a better job at staying together.

In conventional cup and core styles you’ll find 350gr pills generally tougher than 400gr pills.

The 350gr Hornady (FN or RN) or Speer 350gr FN have thicker jackets and core locking features compared to Speer, Win, Rem 400-405gr FN bullets. The 400gr pills have thin jackets and soft cores, however kept within their performance envelope there is nothing wrong with the 400gr pills.

The 350gr Speer FN and 350gr Hornady RN were originally designed for the 458 Win Mag and can withstand higher velocity. The longer nose to crimp of the Speer may be a problem in a 45/90. I’d suggest the 350gr Hornady FN pill if you have a choice.

Any experience with Barnes .458 / 45-70 300 Grain Triple-Shock X Flat Nose ?

WStrayer,
The 300 grain Remington at 1850 fps MV worked well for me on deer, pronghorn, and such. Rifle is 1886 .45-90.
My longest shot was under 200 yards.

I have seen them used on buffalo in the NT and the results were not good. A lot of them pancaked on the thick skin but those that entered via the thinner skin behind the shoulder worked fine. Some people seem to think that because it’s a 45 caliber it will work on anything. Those bullets were simply not designed for that purpose. Based on their performance on thick skinned game, I expect they will work well on most thin skinned game but have no idea what max velocity will work best.

Most of the conventional cup and core styles in 300 and 400 gr weights will work fine as long as you don’t push them much over 1800 fps. Most were designed to perform at Trapdoor level velocities.

I found enough bullets in my reloading room to keep me busy for a while:
Barnes 250 grain TSX flat nose
Speer 350 grain hot core flat nose
Speer 400 grain - suspect these might be to fragile at higher velocities.

What is the C.O.L. for the 45-90? One search said 2.88 inches but I am unable to confirm.

You will see it quoted between 2.80-2.88”. In some conversions, smiths recommend 2.75”. I would start by loading one cartridge at 2.80” and see how that cycles in your rifle. You can see what the loaded cartridge needs to clear as the cartridge clears the mag. This is easy to follow in a top eject levergun. A stuck shell will likely mean magazine disassembly and is something to be avoided.

Congrats on the rifle. I have one myself. Had little (if none) issues finding dies/brass and our own FlyBoy Flem casts some outstanding 325gr hard cast pills for me.

From my accumulated 45-90 references the COL is:

Min = 2.815 inch
Max= 2.880 inch

Spent some time in the reloading room today experimenting. Seated the following bullets at the crimping groove and the COL follows:
Speer hot core 350 gr, #2478, 3.20 COL
Speer 400 gr, #2479, 2.86 COL
Barnes TSX 250 gr flat nose, 2.70 COL

I suspect this Barnes bullet would work:
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010413730?pid=702258

Spent some time in the reloading room today experimenting."

Now the real fun begins!