Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing Stain OVER Tru-Oil??

OK, my first stock finishing project is coming along pretty well, but after the first few coats of Tru-Oil, the underlying color (I stained the stock before the Tru-Oil) is wearing off a a bit along the sharp edges of the stock's accent lines. I used the wet-sand method with the first couple coats of Tru-Oil, and have been scuffing lightly with fine sandpaper between subsequent coats.

It doesn't look too bad, though, so I'm debating just leaving it alone...but could I wipe some stain over the affected areas, even though I've already started with the Tru-Oil?

If you do use more stain, it will only affect the bare/exposed wood. I'd just wipe it down afterwards so there is no stain on top of the Tru Oil.

Takes a subtle hand to sand the sharp edges....

Is this stock Walnut?

I ask because if so, stain was likely not needed, as Tru Oiled walnut will darken with age. A fresh job is always lighter than it will be in a year.

If not walnut then you might have to live with evidence of where it got sanded through. you might be able to cover a lot of it up but I'd bet something somewhere will show.

Skip the wet sanding thing, waste of time.

600 grit wet/dry paper (auto refinishing grade) between coats for the first 20 and 800 grit for a few after that....

If you have a little finish down and stain won't penetrate, you can try touching up with artist's acrylic paint and apply Tru-Oil over that. Mix colors to match, probably mostly burnt umber, and try a thin "wash" coat with a fine brush. Best part, if you don't like it you can wipe off and try again. Play with it, try different things to see what works for you. Like let it dry a bit and smear and wipe of excess with a finger to get a stain-like result. It'll work differently depending on each person's technique. My general purpose acrylic brush cleaner will take acrylic paint off after it dries and usually after it cures. One part alcohol, one part clear household ammonia, six parts water, a drop of liquid dish soap. Proportions probably not important, this works for me.

Not ideal but an alternative to sanding down. Don't need to scuff sand with Tru-Oil.

A Stock Maker Friend, Always stains thru the Finish. He uses a very expensive stain made in England. Maybe from Holland & Holland or one of The other high end Shot Gun Makers. He also uses The Picture Frame Wax for expensive Paintings. Brownells carries the Wax, But the stain comes from England, and apparently,is hard to find.

mix stain with the true oil and blend it in where the light spots are.
the stain that comes for mixing with glass bedding works ok it only takes less than a drop for a whole jar of true oil go easy on the stain it is very powerful.

Thanks for the replies. Hubert, that's a good idea, I'll give that a shot.

The stock is walnut, I debated whether to stain before oiling, but I was looking for a really dark finish...next time around, I'll likely stick to just the Tru-Oil.

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+10! Hubert.
Whether Tru Oil, Tung oil, BLO or even varnish, I mix a few drops of "stain" in the finish and then even if some grain rubs out a bit differently, it stays more even thru the various coats.

"Stain" is not quite the correct term tho: I use an alcohol based leather dye like Fiebings makes..MUCH better than conventional stains..Jim

Oil finishes done properly should never be sanded between coats except to repair problems. There is no need to scuff sand between coats, ever.

Sanding between coats says you are leaving too much finish on the wood. Apply lots of oil, let stand for 10 minutes or so and wipe completely DRY with a clean cloth. It is impossible to sand through the finish that way!

I use nighthawk's method and it works.
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I agree on any sort of sanding ..but I let my applications 'dry' and penetrate all they will for about 60 minutes at 70F in 45-65% RH and then wipe excess off with a tack cloth...or 0000 steel wool wetted lightly in oil...

Then let dry another 24 hours same ambient and recoat again..Jim

Tru-oil will be dry by 60 minutes and the wiping, too late. Never use steel wool on anything that will be subjected to weather. Tiny particles will break off and embed in the finish to rust and "freckle" later. Even if they are not obvious they negatively affect luster.

Steel wool with oil applied as you suggest would have a strong tendency to roll the finish layer and cause all sorts of issues.
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I think there is a misconception about "why" sanding is done.

I agree that sanding or "scuffing" between coats is not required, to get the next coat to "stick", as is needed with other finishes like urathane or paint.

Everyone knows a car is wet sanded between coats to get the paint to adhere, with laquer paint and such.

I think that generically translates for some people to need to sand a gun stock between coats as well.

I sand Tru Oil between coats to fill the grain faster, not to use the "dust" created as that gets tacked off, but by sanding each dried coat off almost completely the open pores are reduced very quickly.

The further I go into the job the less "sanding" is needed......

Absolutely, after using lots of Tru-Oil for lots of years cannot agree... Sanding atop very thin coats is not as good as sanding after a whole series of coats. To start, it takes a lot less sanding and fills faster.

You are talking about 20+ coats and sanding between them... Oil should be laid in extremely thin layers.

I guess YMMV, but frankly I have used too much of the stuff to see your angle.
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We're getting the same results just getting there the opposite way.....

I agree whole heartedly about thin layers, worst thing to do ever is gob it on and let it dry....

What a mess that makes.

Without sanding or using steel wool.
1. One thin coat a day for the first month.
2. One thin coat a week for the next 11 months.
3. Hand rub the finish to mirror luster.
4. Lock up in safe never to be seen again by human eyes.

Wayne

Can you get good results without sanding at all, assuming you're willing to take the time to apply enough coats? Or is some amount of sanding always required, once the oil coats have started going on?

There really are no ways to completely avoid sandiing after the oil goes on. Always rub carefully and briskly when removing oil that is not staying. Rub it hard. You should wonder if you are leaving ANY oil on when you do it. That action alone will leave the pores with more oil in them. That will reduce the sanding tremendously.

Sanding as a very inexact removal system and seldom the right way to go except for the tiniest final bit of wood removal...
art

Do not over heat the stock by leaving it in the sun or too near a stove. The air in the warming wood will expand and drive uncured oil to surface where they telegraph like crazy. Doing it intentionally after a number of coats and sanding the tits off will fill the wood fairly well. But the sad fact is that oil will continue to polymerize and shrink over time. The pores will eventually show up again unless the wood is filled.

Epoxy is what I use and it stops the telegraphing.

There is no doubt in my mind your epoxy method is the best way to go....for huge reasons.

Huh? You use epoxy as a wood filler?

I've never heard of that. Can you offer more details please?

Also, how do you avoid getting some dust on the stock while it's drying? I figured on having to sand some just to remove this from the dried finish before I apply the next coat.

GrizzlyBear
Have used epoxy as a base coat/sealer/absolute-water-barrier on stocks for years. Spent much time testing many finishes on walnut blocks and only two finishes actually stop water from getting into wood, epoxy and superglue.

Will do a superglue stock soon, but have much experience with epoxy 'til then.

I use slow-setting epoxy (G-1 and G-2 from Industrial Formulators is current favorite but have used many different brands blends and all slow-set epoxy will work except for the water-thinned stuff) for the open time and strength advantages.

I heat the stock in the oven to about 110F and apply epoxy by hand, starting with end grain areas and working as fast as I can. The air in the cooling wood shrinks and helps draw the epoxy in deeper and the viscosity is reduced by the temperature, also.

After sanding the cured epoxy an oil finish is applied. It looks exactly like an oil finish and repairs every bit as easily. It seals perfectly and is rugged. The epoxy adds depth a slurry-filled finish cannot begin to match.

Oil finishes should not have dust spec problems... Add finish heavily, let stand 10-15 minutes and wipe completely dry. After many coats a little sanding may be needed to correct a missed run or similar, but sanding between coats will likely take off too much because the coats are so thin.

I have typed out a ton of complete directions here to my system and the search function should help you find those.
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