Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Thoughts on suppressors for hunting

I posted this in a dumb place before so moving it here. Feel free to disagree: this isn't trying to convince anyone, more for people who are wondering if they should pick up a suppressor for their hunting rifle. Maybe this has all been said before, apologies if so.

Everything below presumes you are buying a high quality lightweight titanium can. If you buy a steel can for your hunting rifle, all bets are off and you are likely to get massive zero shifts and a reduction in accuracy due to the weight of the can inducing barrel whip and sag. Plus you just added 16 oz to your rifle instead of 8 oz.

Most sporter weight barrels of up to 24" length seem to have no problems (accuracy-wise) handling a 10 ounce/7 inch suppressor (though a 31" effective barrel length is nuts). If your can is bigger or heavier than 7 inches/10 ounces, your barrel needs to get shorter or stiffer. This is from personal experience putting cans on a few dozen sporter weight barrels. I have a few 13 ounce 9 inch titanium cans and they cause accuracy problems except on very stiff barrels. Though they are also insanely quiet.

5-7 inches, 8-10 ounces, is the sweet spot. With that in mind...

Downsides of even short lightweight suppressors:
-add weight to your rifle
-require you to think more about barrel contour (need enough barrel shoulder to make the suppressor or mount lock up reliably, without having a very thick barrel)
-add length to your rifle, so require a shorter barrel and precludes the use of elegant thin stocks because the balance point of the rifle is shifted forward.
-require a stock with a slightly wider foreend bc the rifle tends to balance near the objective bell rather than the action screw
-require you to save weight elsewhere on the rifle (the stock being the best place, but also barrel contour)
-cause carbon to build up much faster in the throat.
-cause barrels to heat up faster. If you like keeping your throat cool, you get maybe 5 shots with 308-based cases and 3 shots with magnum cases, in warm weather.

Bottom line: if you want to a handy rifle you can use in the backcountry, you have to build the rifle around the can. And pay more attention to cleaning your throat.

So, for all that bullsh*te, what are the actual benefits:

With a 5" can, a reduction in muzzle blast about the same as a cheap pair of earplugs and also some recoil reduction and reduced hold sensitivity. A 5" can and crappy earplugs is like shooting a regular rifle with plugs and muffs..while also stepping down 30-40 grains in bullet weight.

And..there is also less gas pressure on your face. The concussion wave we all got used to at an early age is greatly reduced. More an issue for new shooters, but it's a benefit.

A 7" can reduces muzzle blast the same as a good pair of earmuffs and damps recoil very well, about as well as a muzzle break. In a 30-06 based case there is zero concussion or shock wave to your face/body when the gun is fired. Again more an issue for new shooters.

Recoil-wise, a suppressed 35 Whelen shooting 250 grain bullets at 2550 fps kicks about the same as a 30-06 of identical weight shooting 180grain bullets at 2700 fps. A suppressed 7-08 is as easy for most people to shoot as a 223.

A suppressed rifle is always less hold sensitive than an unsuppressed rifle of the same weight and caliber. They are always more practically accurate if you are shooting from a compromised position. Doesn't matter who you are: a suppressed rifle (especially with a 7" can) is easier to shoot to its limit of mechanical accuracy than an unsuppressed rifle of equal weight.

Is the annoyance worth it? Who knows. One thing I've noticed: you rarely have new shooters developing a flinch if they learn on a suppressed rifle.

The biggest problem with suppressors is the guys at gunshops telling folks you can just bolt one on. You can, but the results won't be great. You're always looking at shortening the barrel to get the handling back and dropping the rifle into a composite stock to get the weight back.

I started hunting with a suppressor 2 years ago. Mostly with a 6.8spc AR. There is about a 2” shift in POI from unsuppressed. I also experienced a POI shift with a 308 bolt action, but not with a 223 AR.

The first deer I shot with the the suppressor, I made the shots standing unsupported. The deer made no flinch at the first shot. I noticed because there was negligible recoil and the reticle remained in target. I made a second shot and saw an immediate flinch before the deer jumped and ran 20 yards. Not sure exactly how I missed that first shot, but I did. Having the suppressor allowed me to see the reaction (or lack of) of the deer.

I have a rifle at PacNor getting a new barrel. I requested a heavier profile specificity for suppressor use. I also have a Rem 700 stainless that I would love to get cut down and threaded, but that barrel just seems too slim a profile for it.

Scoony,

I've had similar experiences with recovering recoil fast enough to get a second shot where otherwise I might not have been able to.

On the zero shift, it definitely depends on how heavy your can is. A Silencerco Omega is about as heavy as I've been able to go without getting zero shift. The titanium one piece cans are only 2-3 ounces lighter but it seems to matter.

Also whoever threads the barrel needs to be pretty careful. They need to indicate the bore centerline rather than just making their cut based on the barrel OD. It takes longer and some gunsmiths don't feel like doing it, but that alone will definitely cause a 2-4" shift. Factory muzzle threads are very rarely indicated on the bore centerline and factory threads are always where I see the biggest zero shifts.

As an extreme example of using skinny barrels, I run a 7" titanium can on a factory 18.5" 7mm-08 Model 7 barrel (pencil/mountain/#1 contour) and another 7" can on a Winchester featherweight 7mm barrel cut to 18.5". I can't remember the zero shift but those guns both shoot lights out with 7" cans. But if I put a 9" can on, accuracy goes to sh*t.

My whelens both have 20" barrels, Rem sporter contours, and .358 holes through the barrel. The one threaded by a benchrest gunsmith has a 1" zero shift with a 7" can, the one threaded by a less careful place has a 2" zero shift.

Same with a ton of 22" sporter contours with 5" and 7" suppressors: maybe a tiny zero shift from droop but no impact on accuracy except to improve it.

Moral of the story: if the threads are concentric to the bore centerline and the suppressor is light you can get away with a pretty thin barrel. I won't go any heavier than a sporter contour, now. But I guess it took threading a lot of different barrels to get there.

You guys might just convince me to use a suppressor.

Brad likes really small ones. 4 inches and 4 Oz.



Jeff likes the same small one.



Even the girls like little suppressors.

Can't agree more.

+2

Talking with one of the fine gentlemen at Bartlein, he floated the idea of contouring the barrel (2B) with a flare at the end for a 5/8 thread. I love the idea, just haven't worked up the courage to order yet - deciding on chambering/caliber would likely be a good first step.

I would consider one if I ever get access to private land, just to be polite, but too much money and fuss for the very few shots I fire on public land.

I always appreciate those who run them on their minor cannons at the range.

JohnBurns: what suppressor is that? Sounds great.

Skane: I run Barts and Brux on my heavier rifles, but they don't work for me for these sporter weight suppressed rifles. Most of your #2 barrels are poor suppressor hosts. Unfortunately including the 2B. This is just me and I like an 8 lb rifle with a scope and suppressor (I haven't managed to get under 7.25 lbs) and the 2B is heavier than most #2's already and now you're adding more weight on the end.

In the second place most of the numbered contour (2,3,4) barrels are a very even and gradual contour/taper from the shank to the muzzle. Even if you're using a 9/16x24 (which you should be on a sporter barrel, a 9/16 mount is about .565 in diameter, so needs a shoulder around .650 at least), with most #2 contours you run out of suitable barrel shoulder at around 20" give or take.

As far as I can tell, the best barrel contour for a suppressor is a Remington sporter contour, with a Winchester sporter being in second place. The Remington sporters go about .655 at 22" with the Winchesters being a little skinnier, but usually fine.

Practically speaking this means you are stuck with button rifled barrels from Benchmark or Lilja etc etc. I just have them make me bore size XYZ in a Rem Sporter contour. I don't know of any cut rifle barrel makers who will make a sporter contour in stainless. Stainless is esp useful with a can bc there is more fouling in the bore.

Happy to be shown some alternative. This is just what I've arrived at. I've got several Benchmark sporter contours that shoot in the .2's with cans on. At least for 3 shots, at which point I have to break position to let the barrel cool. Good enough for me.

“ I don't know of any cut rifle barrel makers who will make a sporter contour in stainless.”

Benchmark will.
Rock also if they ever start taking orders again.

A lot of the custom barrel makers are beginning to offer their standard "sporter" contours with the last 1-1.5" at around 0.65-0.75 so that it can be threaded to 5/8-24 without issue. May add a couple more ounces to the end of the barrel, but being able to have a #2 contoured barrel vs a #4 contoured barrel makes gives you a lot more weight reduction overall.

I won't hunt without a suppressor here in the US. I do have a hunt planned in Canada and I plan to put a Witt Machine SME linear comp on that rifle to direct the noise and blast downrange rather than out or back.

As for the POI shift, I don't worry about it as I don't shoot unsuppressed at game or for groups anymore, so it doesn't matter to me. My loads are developed for the firearm setup with the suppressor, so I don't see an accuracy reduction either.

Is it a pain to get one? Yes. Should it be? NO! However, if you are willing to pay over $600 and wait 6-8 months for a custom stock, why in the world wouldn't you pay a couple hundred more and wait a month or two more for a suppressor that you can use on multiple firearms and it may even make you a better shooter in the field and at the bench?

It's one I make at Wyoming Arms. 4 inches and 4 ozs.

It's not super quiet but does everything the bigger cans do for hunting.

I suspect light contours that bell up at the muzzle to .700 or so for 5/8-24 threads are going to get much more popular.



18 inch 6.5mm CM only gives up 80fps to a 22 inch.

The 6MM ARC get most stuff done @ 16 inches.

A 7mm Rem Mag @ 22 inches and a 4 inch can is much more pleasant than a .270 Win at 24 or 26 inches w/ bare muzzle and the animals are much less aware of where the shot came from.

AKwolverine: Whelp, I feel dumb. I'd only gotten the button rifled barrels from Benchmark. In fact I ordered two barrels last week.

JohnBurns...I think you just sold another suppressor. I'll give a call to discuss the differences between the 4" and 5".

Would you rate those 4" cans as hearing safe for things on the 223 or 308 cases?

I have one barrel that measures .585" that is threaded for 1/2x28 on a 22-250 and one barrel that measures .605 that is threaded 9/16x24 on a .300 WM and both have CB breaks that host a 7" TB Ultra. No problems with anything coming lose, but of course, red Loctite is the answer, not a bunch of torque. AND the balance point of each rifle moves about 1.5" forward is all. My guess is most guys blind folded wouldn't be able to tell one way or the other is the suppressor was on or off the rifle if pulling the rifle up to shoot off hand.

So don't be fooled into thinking a guy HAS to have a thick barrel just to be threaded.

POI shift is not an issue because the guns are never fired un-suppressed.

This is the 5 " on a 16 inch AR with the mike at "Shooters Ear"

The peak is small print and just below OSHA 140 Db @ 139 DB but it's Z Weighted. (Sound Nerd Talk)



On our little suppressors the smaller the hole the better it works.

On a .308 bolt gun with a 22 inch barrel it's going to be very close to 140DB at shooters ear.

On a 264 Mag with 26 inch barrel it's going to be 144 DBs which I find OK for a few shots and a spotter will be well under 140 DB.

7mm Rem Mag @ 24 inches is similar around 145 DB.

6.5MM CM bolt gun @ 24 inches is below 140 DB at shooter ear.

Design goals were the smallest and lightest that offer just enough suppression to work for hunting.

Animal don't know where the shot came from, spotters are totally protected, and the shooter is comfortable for a few shots.

Thank you for the explanation. For my uses that would likely be sufficient. I don't find plugs/muffs cumbersome when at the range, but do not like them for hunting.

What about for a rimfire?

I’m pretty new to hunting with a suppressor but I’m sold on them. I don’t have ringing ears after shooting up a sounder of pigs and they make multiples on coyotes common. The different sound signature confuses the heck out of pigs and often has them running towards the shooter.

I doubt I’ll thread my sporter barreled rifles I tote in the mountains for elk and mule deer as I don’t find the trade off in weight and bulk worth it. If and when I build something else I very well may make sure it is compatible. But generally these rifles are used for a short season and one or two shots. Whereas my varmint rifles I use to shoot pigs and coyotes all year see hundreds of rounds and are where my can lives.

I believe that some of the new Browning X-Bolt rifles have their barrels flared at the muzzle for the purpose of a larger mating surface for a brake/suppressor. Falls in line with what Skane heard from the guys at Bartlein.

JB,

Thread specific (fixed) or is there potential modularity in direct thread (like, say, the Omega 300)?

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