Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game New hunters.

Is the recent push by many groups and individuals to bring in new Western hunters a good thing, or will it backfire in the long run?

IMO it has definitely fanned the resident, non resident flames. With such a finite resource, how much is to much?

SLM, guess it depends on your definition of “good”. Technology is hurting us as much of more than the movie stars IMO. “Hunters” shootin game with rifles over 1000 yards, muskets accurate over 500, folks shooting bows over 100 yards, onyx, rangefinders, Bluetooth scope/rangefinders,are making folks way more successful than 15-20 years ago. Always bitched about Washington, but, I can hunt Blacktail, Muleys and whitetail every year with any weapon, Roosevelt and Rocky mtn branched bulls every year with any weapon, 2 bears and 2 cougar every year, then I can drive a hour south to Oregon and do pretty much the same thing, 6 hours east to Idaho, do pretty much the same thing again, 8 hours to Montana and hunt pretty much yearly in Montana. States like Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah and Colorado are gonna be the ones that are gonna see tougher and tougher draws from here on out. Kinda feel sorry for folks that have to “draw” a tag to hunt good buck units and branched bulls annually in their home state. Just gonna get worse I’m afraid

Here's something I didn't anticipate with all the new rifle shooters.

All the sand bags at the public range have been blasted apart because the new shooters packing their "Modern Sporting Rifle" rest the barrel and muzzle brake directly on the sand bags.

If the range management can't get that sorted out then folks will end up having to start bringing their own bags to place on the wood front rests.

Idaho's getting harder in recent years for non-residents. They have quotas on deer and elk. They go on sale Dec 1 and they're usually sold out in days. Non-res can still apply for draw hunts if they miss out on the quotas but the odds of drawing aren't very good.

Sure are, if your on the ball you can get tags initially and returned tags. Wasn’t too many years ago, (5-6) I could drive over around thanksgiving, buy my tag and go hunt. Those days are long gone…

I've seen the effects the increase in the number of hunters here in Montana since I started hunting here in 1975.

I drew my first Goat tag back then in a unit with a 25% chance of drawing. Last year the Montana unit with the best chance of drawing a Goat tag had just a lilttle better than 4% success.

In the late '70s and '80s there were many Antelope units that did not sell all of their tags. Last year, all Montana antelope units were sold out and the units with the highest chance of drawing a tag were the units with the least public land which makes hunting access more difficult.

In the '70s and into the '80s, a Bighorn sheep hunter could apply in a limited sheep tag unit, and if unsuccessful there, just buy an Unlimited unit tag. Back then most of the sheep units just north of Yellowstone NP were unlimited units. The season for many of those units went from early September througn the end of November, and the kill quota was not filled in some of those units. A hunter could also buy an unlimited ram tag every year, and there was no 7 year wait to apply if you killed a ram. I hunted several of those unlimited units for many years and never saw another hunter, or at most only one or two. Now, an umlimited ram tag is only available as your first choice in the drawing, the harvest quota has been dropped to 2 rams per unit, seasons have been shortened in some units, other units have changed to limited draws, and the last time that I hunted in an unlimited unit, the high mountain basin that had sheep in it the day before, on opening morning, was crowded with hunters, tents, guides with hunters on horseback, and no rams.

Moose numbers in my part of Montana are way down from what they were in the '70s and '80s, I believe, not from hunting, but from the introduced wolves in Yellowstone. Many of the previously open moose units in our area are now closed, and the number of tags in the open units have been greatly reduced.

Throught Montana, I think, that the size of the Mule deer and the Elk antlers has significantly decreased from what they were 40 years ago. Disease has affected many of the mule deer herds, but just plain over hunting has reduced the number of large, mature bucks and bulls.

I agree Jud......I have said for a long time now we are our own worst enemies....bob

Agree 100% on the technology, ease of information etc. having an big impact. NM game commission has a proposed rule change to eliminate scopes on ML’s. I’m kind of on the fence about it. There’s a couple units I think it will help bring some big bulls back and that’s a good thing. It just seems a little off when a couple weeks before you have guys with bows with sliders that are dumping animals 100 yds+ like you say and in most units, you have guys dumping them at 6/700+ center fire shortly after. Sometimes it just feels like we’re loving it to death.

Most of the new “breed” of hunters don’t know what it’s like to go spend the time and $$ to find game by actually going out and doing it, they’re dropping pins etc. technology is making it too easy and too successful, double edge sword, influx in “hunters”, more successful hunters= less critters, less opportunities, less tags, which is a big problem, especially in states that have limited, predominantly draw for most/all species.

Before whiners start bitching, I’ve never used a gps or had a onyx membership. There was a time when you actually used to load your gear and go scout/find areas by yourself, which intimidated folks. I remember guys asking me, where snd how do you figure out where to hunt?? Ummmm get off your ass and go do it. My first non resident trip was 35 years ago when I was 12, dad and I used to load up with a 1970 chev and a pile of junk camp trailer and drive to ne Oregon and hunt, great times. Now you have pretty much everything at the click of a mouse. We’re gonna see a more dramatic change than we already have in the next 10 years, and probably a lot sooner.

Also noteworthy, a guy in his 30’s here at work was sittin around watching born and raised on YouTube. They showed a pic of a tagged bull. The little titty sucker zoomed in on the tag and found out what tag they purchased and was huntin the same group of units they were the following year.. watch your landmarks in your pics and videos too. 👊🏻

Jud; you make a good point about the two sides of technology.

I used to find honey holes by dropping a couple of hundred dollars on maps and airphotos followed up by hours of pre season scouting. Now a $5 app gives everyone with a cell phone the information in better detail instantly.

Lots of the old honey holes are now crawling with hunters.

Lots of the new hunters seem to be cross overs from other outdoor pursuits. They move way too fast with too little concern for concealment and being skylined.

Theres still a 1 cougar bag limit in washington, not 2. And please provide evidence of +500 and +100 yard muzzie / archery hunters. Most hunters cant shoot a scoped rifle competently at 200, let alone an open sight muzzy at over 500. And a bow over 100? Get real 99% couldnt succeed at that at a foam target, let alone a moving animal. Pure sensationalism here.

Jud,

You're nailing it. I know it causes some all sorts of handwringing, but the technology is evolving way faster than the critters.

Heck, remember when you had to find a source for topo maps and they weren't cheap, than you had to study them all winter long, scout the area on foot, talk with people familiar to the area, burn lots of gas and time to learn an area. A guy used to have to worry about getting lost in these parts. That ain't even happening anymore with OnX.

We used to spring bear hunt an area in the that the only real way to access it was snowshoeing in and taking them off when not on snow. Now tracked ATV's are covering the area in droves.

My nephew was showing me his drone the other day. My mind went to how scouting game is going to change even if laws are in place about hunting and having a drone in the air. Critters are at a big time disadvantage and hunting is just plain easier now, if you can find a place to hunt and that might be the real deal breaker in the near future?

Sorry, I’m able to buy 2 longtail tags. Before ya flip your lip, see what “hunters” are doing in states that allow scopes on muzzleloaders. Maybe GregW for example will chime in about a muzzleloader with a scope will do?? I’m sure there are more. Have shared camps with guys that shoot bucks 100 yards plus regularly with archery equipment. There has been no mention of “open sighted muskets killin at 500 yards plus… 👍

Please try not to be a total douche.

Interesting. Care to expound on the "hunter" comment insinuation?

all 50 states need to enact & enforce regs that require hunters to bring out of the field 100% of the edible parts of animal hunted, to their permanent residence for consumption ......

Far too many moneybag phux come to Alaska on a high dollar guided trip, shoot a 60-70" racked moose, leave the entire carcass with the guide and fly home with nothing but the rack, guides "donate" (there's an ambiguous term) the moose meat to the four corners market ie brown & black bears, wolves & coyotes etc ....
Far too costly & time consuming to pack out the quarters so they claim it was donated to "local natives" yup, the 4 legged ones .....

guess the furry critters gotta eat too !

Don’t be so insecure Greg, not everything is about “you”. 👍

Lmao. You brought my name up my man and I didn't understand the comment.

Your comments on this thread however, are very interesting.

I brought your name up simply because you have a high dollar muzzleloader, and you shoot long range with it. How far can you accurately hit a deer with it? Elariah or wtf thinks it’s not possible. Glad I’m interesting. 👍