24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,691
Calhoun Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,691
(duplicate posting from Savage Collector Forum)

Not mine, we'll just leave the person involved as nameless.... probably best, since I don't really know their name. grin

Don't expect to see this happen on a 22LR/410 combo gun. Ouch! No injuries, fortunately..

Thoughts on cause?

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
BP-B2

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,153
M
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
M
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,153
Bad reload? Hot .45-70 chambered in .410 chamber? Hard for me to imagine that this originated in the .22 chamber....unless somebody packed the barrel with dynamite.


Was Mike Armstrong. Got logged off; couldn't log back on. RE-registered my old call sign, Mesa.
FNG. Again.
Mike Armstrong
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,691
Calhoun Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,691
Most of the 22 brass is still in the chamber, the 410 barrel doesn't really have any damage. Seems to be all 22LR related.


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 428
L
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
L
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 428
Wasn't there a recall on 22lr ammo? Winchester perhaps. It was some years ago, but there was a chance some were double charged in a certain lots. Not everyone follows that stuff, so it's possible.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,691
Calhoun Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,691
Never heard of that. My thoughts were all running towards barrel blockage, maybe a squib?


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
IC B2

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,314
E
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
E
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 13,314
22 mag in a 22 lr chamber?

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042
K
krp Offline
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
K
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17,042
I'd pull the brass and see if it's 22lr.

Kent

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027
steel cleaning rod in and receiver slammed shut?


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,521
Looks like the pressure took the easy way out via the extractor cut. Ruptured case, bore obstruction? It had to go someplace, even only a .22.


What fresh Hell is this?
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,029
Originally Posted by earlybrd
22 mag in a 22 lr chamber?


Unless the factory cut an over-size .22 LR chamber, a .22 MAG cartridge won't chamber in a SAAMI specs .22 LR chamber as the .22 MAG has a slighly larger diameter. Same/same for .22 WRF not being able to be inserted into a properly cut .22 LR chamber.

IC B3

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,450
Originally Posted by Mesa
Bad reload? [ ] Hard for me to imagine that this originated in the .22 chamber....unless somebody packed the barrel with dynamite.

Here’s another guess, maybe as good as any:
The fella was loading up some home-brew rimfire ammo, using primed 22LR cases he purchased from FedArm. He ran outa Bullseye and couldn’t find more. So, instead, he used just a pinch of C-4 from his “Nam souvenir” Claymore.



Every day’s an adventure.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,180
M
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
M
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 10,180
22lr can have near twice the PSI of 410s.................

Is there another rifle that has that LITTLE metal around a 22lr chamber????

Last edited by Muffin; 04/25/22.

"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867

( . Y . )
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,450
Originally Posted by Muffin
22lr can have near twice the PSI of 410s.................

Is there another rifle that has that LITTLE metal around a 22lr chamber????

While certainly not rifles, consider the thickness of the .22LR chamber walls of the steel cylinder on a tiny NAA mini revolver and the .22LR chamber walls of the aluminum cylinder on a Smith & Wesson 43C revolver.

The .22LR cartridge would necessarily have a far smaller cartridge case interior surface area against which pressure can act, compared to a .410 shell. Looking at the PSI numbers alone does not take this difference into account.

The thickness of .22LR rifle barrels is dictated by considerations other than just chamber pressure containment.




Every day’s an adventure.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,691
Calhoun Offline OP
Campfire 'Bwana
OP Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,691
Originally Posted by Exchipy
Originally Posted by Mesa
Bad reload? [ ] Hard for me to imagine that this originated in the .22 chamber....unless somebody packed the barrel with dynamite.

Here’s another guess, maybe as good as any:
The fella was loading up some home-brew rimfire ammo, using primed 22LR cases he purchased from FedArm. He ran outa Bullseye and couldn’t find more. So, instead, he used just a pinch of C-4 from his “Nam souvenir” Claymore.

He was using up some 22LR ammunition made in the 80's, apparently. Nothing unusual in that, really. I'm sure I've picked up and shot 22LR that old and older at gun shows. Not sure if that would increase the chance of a squib round on a previous shot.. ??


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,565
D
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,565
The photos are not ideal for the purpose of diagnosis, but the fracture surface looks like that of a brittle overload failure. That is typified by a fracture surface which looks crystalline, and little evidence of plastic deformation in the fracture. That would lead me to suspect there might be an issue with the barrel, such as incorrect heat treatment, as a potential factor here.

A brittle barrel can survive quite well as long as loads are within its limits, but does not cope well with overload. One should expect that a barrel will bulge rather than crack on an overload - that is a lot safer, as the work done in bulging dissipates but contains the overload, where a brittle failure simply lets go with little work of fracture. Brittleness also does not cope well with stress concentrations such as sharp corners. It could have been as little as a ruptured rim, coupled with brittleness and the stress raiser at the apparent point of crack initiation, and there's your rifle buggered .

If it was me I'd be having a good hard look at hardness and microstructure of the breech end of the barrel. There again, given that it is an older rifle, out of production, and no-one was hurt, it is probably not going to be worth spending the money on any deeper analysis.

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,450
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,450
Originally Posted by dan_oz
The photos are not ideal for the purpose of diagnosis, but the fracture surface looks like that of a brittle overload failure. That is typified by a fracture surface which looks crystalline, and little evidence of plastic deformation in the fracture. That would lead me to suspect there might be an issue with the barrel, such as incorrect heat treatment, as a potential factor here.

A brittle barrel can survive quite well as long as loads are within its limits, but does not cope well with overload. One should expect that a barrel will bulge rather than crack on an overload - that is a lot safer, as the work done in bulging dissipates but contains the overload, where a brittle failure simply lets go with little work of fracture. Brittleness also does not cope well with stress concentrations such as sharp corners. It could have been as little as a ruptured rim, coupled with brittleness and the stress raiser at the apparent point of crack initiation, and there's your rifle buggered .

If it was me I'd be having a good hard look at hardness and microstructure of the breech end of the barrel. There again, given that it is an older rifle, out of production, and no-one was hurt, it is probably not going to be worth spending the money on any deeper analysis.

Now, we’re getting down to business.


Every day’s an adventure.
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 14,027
in my misspent youth we made zip guns from radio antennae. it took multiple firings to bulge them, even unsupported on the breech end.
there is more to this failure than is being explained.


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
S
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
S
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,579
Originally Posted by 260Remguy
Originally Posted by earlybrd
22 mag in a 22 lr chamber?


Unless the factory cut an over-size .22 LR chamber, a .22 MAG cartridge won't chamber in a SAAMI specs .22 LR chamber as the .22 MAG has a slighly larger diameter. Same/same for .22 WRF not being able to be inserted into a properly cut .22 LR chamber.




one will chamber in the old 24 Savage I have, that I inherited from my grand father's passing in 1968...22 LR on top and 410 on the bottom...

my granddad's favorite two "meals" was squirrel or rabbit... and being a typical WV hillbilly... cheap SOB..

is a very early Model 24....the 22 barrel is long since shot out when I got it...shot out enough, a 22 Mag round will drop right in there...

I used the 410 barrel and took a truck load of squirrels with it when I lived in Minnesota...


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez

Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 1
G
New Member
Offline
New Member
G
Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 1
First off hello to the group.

I had a similar problem with a 24S-E, almost. Let my son shoot a hand full of 22’s at a 55 gal burn barrel. Put the shells on the ground and while picking up one it must of had a pebble on the rim. When he slammed it shut the round went off. I ran over to look at it and it looked like the barrel had I crack in it. Put it in a case and was in storage for about 10 years. Brought it out one day and took a good look at it and what I saw as a crack in the barrel was actually the rim of the 22 shell peeled back. Great little combo gun in 22-20 ga.

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 570
O
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
O
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 570
Originally Posted by luvrifles
Wasn't there a recall on 22lr ammo? Winchester perhaps. It was some years ago, but there was a chance some were double charged in a certain lots. Not everyone follows that stuff, so it's possible.
Yes, there was !! I had some of that ammo. I did not test for affect !!!!!


"not too grumpy"
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
688 members (12344mag, 160user, 12308300, 17CalFan, 16Racing, 1234, 68 invisible), 2,677 guests, and 1,251 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,620
Posts18,398,530
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.122s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8990 MB (Peak: 1.0541 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 14:46:08 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS