Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Educate me on corrosiveness differences of BP substitutes

It’s been a while since hunted w my muzzleloaders. In the past I just used Pyrodex.
Are there less corrosive black powder substitutes available now and if so what do you recommend and what are the implications for using them in terms of cleaning advantages?

Blackhorn 209, now licensed to Hodgdon I believe, is the best non-corrosive muzzleloader propellant out there at the moment. At least it is IMO. However, it is currently very difficult to locate. Apparently, Blackhorn 209 was sub-contracted out to a small firm that isn't or can't produce any more at the moment. At least this is what my understanding is based in internet available discussions.

It's also rather expensive @ about $50 for a 10oz bottle. Five pound jugs were made at a reduced price per pound but I've literally never seen one. Lots of shooters are reverting back to 777 (which is corrosive) due to cost and non-availability of Blackhorn 209.

Blackhorn 209 is wonderful stuff where it works, but needs hot 209 ignition and projectiles that provide good bore resistance. Go to their site for details on acceptable combinations.

Triple Seven is good stuff too that works with all projectiles and ignitions. It does require pretty much the same cleaning method as BP, but there’s a lot less residue. It and its other family members like White Hots share a common minor issue of forming a “crud ring” in the barrel just forward of the chamber. At the range you should be prepared to keep it down with wet patching or dry brushing to prevent air gaps, aka pipe bombs, in your barrel. Excellent velocities on a par with 209.

Don’t like Pyrodex as I found it hard to light, and it also needs water-based cleaning. Some like it well, and these days you gotta shoot what you can find.

There are others out there as well, but I’ve not used them. If you happen on them, just do the research on proper ignition types and equipment restrictions.

AFIK, no propellants in pellet form are suitable for sidelock guns. Those need loose powder.

If you provide the info on your gun, we can be more specific.

This stuff works pretty good, from Graf's. Inlines or traditional I have gotten good results and as far as I can tell it is non corrosive but I thoroughly clean anyway.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/83678

Never tried the holy grail stuff too expensive.

Saw that, but not in stock. I have a 5-pound jug of 209, but no inline at present. I do have a Mag Spark for my Renegade, so if I can get that working with sabots or a conical I’ll burn it up. If not, my sons both have inlines. Have enough real powder and 777 for the immediate future.

Just followed the link to the SW data (which I already had downloaded) and found the numbers for their substitutes. Good velocities. Will have to find some. If this stuff works for me it might simplify life.

They claim “virtually non-corrosive”. CYA?

I started out using Pyrodex (nasty stuff) in the 90s and then switch to 777 when it came out around 2002. I've predominantly used 777 since then. I then decided to try BH209 last year. I know most won't agree with me but I haven't found any redeeming qualities about BH209. It can and will corrode more than a smokeless powder and doesn't clean up as easy. I have also found 777 to clean up quicker and easier with hot water and a little Dawn soap.

Give me loose 777....Easier to ignite than BH209 and accuracy can be found by tuning. The crud ring is a real issue and I address this with a spit patch between shots. Lastly, to address the corrosion issue, I went with a CVA nitrided/stainless muzzleloader with lifetime barrel replacement warranty if corroded. I ain't skeered now.....

I found 777 and Pyrodex degrades . I went back to BP for my sidelock.Can't figure out why I ever changed.I do use 209 in my TC in line Impact but the last 10 Oz jug I bought was $40. If I have to pay $50 for 10 ounces I am back to BP on my inlines.

I have enough for this coming season and the next. Don't think I will be hunting past 80 years old. If so, it's BP I guess

My issue with 777 is I had some go bad in a sealed jug stored with my other powder, in a relatively short time. As you said, it cleans up easily and performs. Have some to try out again once the turkey killing (attempted) is over.

Never understood the fascination with subs for BP. Lord Black never rots, it’s easy to clean and gets the job done.

And the smell is enchanting.

For sure. 777 and Pyrodex was an answer to a problem that didn't exist.

I use 777 in my inline.
I use FFFg in my sidelocks.
Tried FFFg in my inline. Didn't think I was EVER gonna get that stuff scrubbed out of the barrel!
Tried 777 in my sidelock. Worked great, but Rem #11 caps would NOT ignite it reliably.
I tried Pyrodex when it first came out.
Didn't shoot right.

I scrub my inline out just like I scrub my sidelock----after every range session and every hunt.
If I'm midnight getting a kill in the 'fridge, I'm still cleaning the frontstuffer before I go to bed.

One reason is that BP is often unavailable locally in many places. Here, I know of no gunshops that carry it, only a farmer located near the NSSA grounds in Gore, VA. It can be ordered of course, but possession may be illegal depending on your locality and housing, plus HAZMAT fees make it pretty pricey for casual users. OTOH, 777 and the crappy Pyrodex are generally for sale at Whatamart, Cabelas etc, and gunstores.

What everyone mentions though, is ease of cleanup with the substitutes. I’ve found that to be vastly overrated, but the myths persist.

One more reason some prefer substitutes is performance. You have to burn a LOT of BP to get near the speeds delivered by 777 and BH209, if it’s even possible. Whether those speeds are really needed is another question.

I use all of them (except Pyrodex).

Last time I bought actual black powder, I had to actually order from GOEX, fill out and return a form, couldn't buy less than five pounds and the HazMat was outta sight!
Still got three pounds!
Stuff is expensive and tough to locate!

I read someplace that the VA farmer has 25 tons in his bunker. Those skirmishers burn a lot of powder. I went there and picked up some Old Eynsford and a brick of musket caps a few years ago. He’s about 30 minutes from here.

Yeah, I've noticed they both degrade too. But, in my experience 777 lasts longer. I started out in 1988 using Pyrodex RS, because everybody I talked to said, don't use black powder. I found out later black 2f is way better than Pyrodex. Seemed to be not any more corrosive either.

I agree.

I have used them all and you have to clean your rifle with all of them.

Yep.

I personally do not care what anyone shoots or the type of firearm they hunt with, as long as they keep things legal. But my confusion has always been taking something as incredibly simple a muzzleloading ( we was doing it as kids without the aid of the interweb) and confounding and complicating it into what it has become.

But, to each his own. Happy hunting! 😁

So, where do you stand on the Power Bait vs Worm controversy?😛

I’ve had three inlines so far, and they just didn’t do it for me, so now I’m down to three caplocks, counting my underhammer pistol. Powder selection is based on whatever works and is available. Since I have a small stash of very nice English fints, I suppose another rocklock might accidently happen as well.

I used BP in one (side lock) and pellets in the other (new model 700).
I bought the 700 for a New Mexico elk hunt that never happened.
A friend sold me a bunch of BP a few years ago. If someone lived close, I could share some as I have more than I need. I’m not shipping any and I don’t need nor desire to sell, but I’d help someone out.

LOL! Hell Pappy. I usually just go with a spinner bait for trout. But I do like worms. 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Used power baits before as I suppose that’s what the fish in the lake were raised on! 🤣

I have a good supply of everything flint, cap, and powder-wise. Bottom line is I hardly ever shoot enough to matter anymore. Usually shoot to put something in the freezer. Got a whole gaggle of flinters. Just hardly ever shot em anymore.

Our IWLA stocks rainbows in the little lake a couple of times a year. For whatever reason, the last bunch were pretty lively and fought well, and did some nice jumping to boot, but seem totally disinterested in the spinners, spoons, and jigs I used to do pretty well with. They hit the 3” Power Bait worms really well, dangled from a bobber or floating up from a small slip sinker, so that’s what they get. Hot weather will kill them all eventually, so given the cost to the club we try and get ‘em all.

Last Fall the club missed out on the run of the mill 12-14” fish and ended up with some very expensive larger ones. One I weighed was over 2lbs. One of those filleted was enough for both of us for dinner.

I agree

Power bait and stocked tommies. ( trout) is pretty much a lead pipe lock.

It must be very similar to trout feed.

Black powder is classified as an explosive. So storage requirements are a lot more regulated. The subs are classified as an accelerant just like any other smokeless powder. The storage requirements are vastly different.

I get all of my real black from Crater Fireworks. He is nearby and I don't have to pay hazmat.

Pyrodex is the most corrosive out of all the powders. All I use now even in the inlines is real black. The cleanup is way faster than anything I have used

We hit the club lake Thursday. They were hot to volunteer for the air fryer. After throwing a bass worm for about 15 minutes, I switched to the PB 3” and had a nice one (17”) on in just a couple of minutes. That one was full of roe.

I tagged out (4) first, and told the wife to throw to a certain spot near one of the bubblers to get her last one. Wasn’t even a minute until she had one on. Told her it was a good example of why she should always listen to her husband😛

Every year the club hosts a fishing derby for kids in the community and stocks just prior to it so there are plenty of fish. This year the event was cancelled due to heavy rain, so there are a lot of fish to be had. IIRC, the club pays about $4 per fish, so it’s a significant investment, and not without some controversy about the expense, since the lake also has nice crappie, bass, catfish, and sunnies that are “self-stocking” at this point. I prefer crappie myself, but have yet to take one this season for some reason.

I think you mean “propellant”.

Those requirements are just too expensive to meet for small shops, and the demand for the real stuff too small.