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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
splattermatic,

Do want just want velocities, or accurate velocities? Over the three decades since Shooting Chronys appeared, I've seen them provide more inaccurate velocities than any other chronograph.


Well damn MD, before affordable personal chronographs were available I used to go out zero at 100 then see what the drops were at 200 and 300 then looked in a ballistics book for velocity closest to the drop at each distance, accurate? Hell no, but it was close enough to kill critters with.
As an aside to this for many many years the shooting crony that I still use at times gave more accurate velocities than my previous method so it served the purpose. Now isn’t that the real point?



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Originally Posted by splattermatic
Bought a shooting chrony beta.


I'm glad that you got what you wanted. Happy days!


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I'm not into serious, I have to know the exact, to the single digit velocity.
How does one do a ladder test ?
I'm sure a chronograph is not 100% necessary, but it's nice to see a node.
If it works great, if it doesn't always ,,,,, we'll I guess I'll just @ it....

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Originally Posted by papat
Plain and simple basic would be a pro chrono by competition electronics.


As usual, the first response is usually the best.

Totally agree. I got my first ProChrono in 1989 or 1990 IIRC. Finally replaced it four years ago. The replacement cost the same as the original.


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Any votes for the magnetospeed?


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The Magnetospeeds work very well, but cost more than either a Shooting Chrony or ProChrono.

They also usually require more shooting (meaning $$$ for ammo) because used in the designed way, by attaching to the muzzle, they affect both accuracy and point-of-impact--unless you buy or make a separate stand for them.

All of this chronograph discussion has been hashed over before on this forum, but seems to come up again every couple months.


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I took my Labradar to the range yesterday and shot 20-plus strings of .45 ACP through it …. nooooo ….. with it.

Mostly 8-round mags with a specific powder charge each working up loads.

It was very nice not to have to shoot 200 rounds offhand through a “window.” It allowed me to put up a bunch of bulls on one target and have a new aiming point for each mag.

I like the data output per mag. Provides a ton of “fireside reading” for later. smile

The Labradar ain’t perfect, but there is a lot to like about it.

Wants, in order of priority for ME:

1.
Let me return to a previous string and add to it, so when I am shooting rifles I can be shooting one while another (or more) are cooling, and I can go back and resume collecting data on a now-cooled rifle.

2. Capture shotgun data.

3. Capture ultra fast small caliber rifle data (it captures my .223 loads just fine).

4. Capture arrow speed.

I am sure there are others …


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Originally Posted by UncleAlps
Any votes for the magnetospeed?


I like them, but for me, the biggest advantage with the MS is shooting on a public range. You don’t have to inconvenience other shooters to get set up. Or tear down either. I use packing tape wrapped around the MS and the barrel to prevent it from moving.

To expedite set up with the Pro Chrono, I get the rifle aligned to the target and use a length of Jute attached to the front rest. I extend the Jute parallel to the barrel, and set up the PC. It cuts down on the back and forth you see others doing with their set up.


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Since apparently many have missed the many threads about chronographs on this forum, which have included my mini-essays on using a bunch, here they are again:

Have owned at least one chronograph since 1979. My first was in the early days of light-screens, so included both light-screens and "break screens," made of metal foil. They recorded the same velocities, with a 2-foot spacing, with a specific .22 Long Rifle factory load, and I used that chronograph (which is no longer made) for a dozen years. The velocities it provided also matched "reality" during numerous trajectory tests at 300+ yards.

I bought it due to just getting into gun writing, after years of writing about hunting, fishing, Western U.S. history, wildlife biology, and other stuff. Even back then it was obvious a chronograph was going to be necessary for any serious gun-writing.

That chronograph finally died in the early 1990s, and the company was out of business. But I still had the owner's contact info, and called him. He said he could repair it, but in the meantime more affordable chronographs had appeared. One was the Shooting Chrony, and believe it or not L.L. Bean sold them for $50. I bought one, checked it against the same .22 LR load, and found the velocities matched.

That was the first of three Shooting Chronys I owned, and all of them eventually proved unreliable, either due to aging or light conditions. I never could quite get them past varying light conditions, no matter what trick I tried. During that period (which lasted around a dozen years) I not only had my 3 Chronys result in some very strange readings, but also saw others at the local public range go bat-schidt.

About that time Ken Oehler started making the 35P again, so I got one. Didn't find it nearly as hard to set up as some people do, partly due to his excellent instructions which came with the chronograph.

After that I used the 35P as a test for newer chronographs, setting them up together to see what happened. Have since tested three ProChronos against it, the first one during a long afternoon where the sun went from high overhead to close to the horizon, with rifles in calibers from .17 to .30. It provided an average velocity very close to the 35P. Have since owned two more ProChronos, and they also tested very well. (The reason I don't own 3 now is I gave two away to young, semi-broke rifle loonies, including one who has three kids. Also gave one of his kids her first deer rifle.)

As somebody mentioned earlier, ProChronos don't provide the detailed info of the Oehler, but for the average handloader they provide a valid average velocity. One of my younger friends, a former Montana hunting guide and U.S. Army sniper who served more than one tour in the Middle East, has been using an early ProChrono for many years, and it still works fine--and he shoots a LOT.

Magnetospeeds also work fine. I've use two quite a bit (after testing them against the Oehler), but prefer to use them on a separate mount so I can test accuracy/POI and velocity at the same time. This is because I do this for a living, and my average range session involves 3-5 rifles. For somebody who doesn't shoot as much they work fine when mounted on the barrel, as designed.

Tried a Labradar, and loved it for the half-dozen sessions. It not only provided the same velocities as the Oehler, given the difference between sitting next to the muzzle and the Oehler 10-15 feet in front, but set up quicker.

Then one day it wouldn't "read" the velocity of 6mm 135-grain Hornady A-Tips. The Labradar company states they won't read bullets below .22 caliber, or velocities over 3900 fps--but the very small base of the A-Tip wouldn't provide a reading. Luckily, I had my ProChrono along, which worked fine. (I was also up against a deadline for a magazine article, and the "cheap" ProChrono saved considerable time.) If you don't shoot smaller bullets, or bullets at velocities over 3900 fps, The Labradar works great. But if and until the Labradar folks solve those diameter/velocity problems, it doesn't work for my purposes.

Will also comment that no, we don't "need" a chronograph to handload. But since buying my first one have learned that they save a lot of time and ammo, partly by reducing the "need" to add more powder until "pressure signs" appear, and partly by providing accurate velocity info that helps considerably in predicting downrange trajectory.









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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
...After that I used the 35P as a test for newer chronographs, setting them up together to see what happened. Have since tested three ProChronos against it, the first one during a long afternoon where the sun went from high overhead to close to the horizon, with rifles in calibers from .17 to .30. It provided an average velocity very close to the 35P. Have since owned two more ProChronos, and they also tested very well. (The reason I don't own 3 now is I gave two away to young, semi-broke rifle loonies, including one who has three kids. Also gave one of his kids her first deer rifle.)


Which is why the Pro Chrono is the best bang for your buck, if you will pardon the pun. It was made better with the introduction of the DLX with Bluetooth built into it. I use my phone or a tablet and have the older version with the Bluetooth module strapped to the side. Before I retired, I got the Pro Chrono and compared it to the Oehler we had at the school. There wasn't enough difference to justify taking the Oehler to the range every time, so I packed my Pro Chrono instead.

Originally Posted by Mule Deer
As somebody mentioned earlier, ProChronos don't provide the detailed info of the Oehler, but for the average handloader they provide a valid average velocity. One of my younger friends, a former Montana hunting guide and U.S. Army sniper who served more than one tour in the Middle East, has been using an early ProChrono for many years, and it still works fine--and he shoots a LOT.

Magnetospeeds also work fine. I've use two quite a bit (after testing them against the Oehler), but prefer to use them on a separate mount so I can test accuracy/POI and velocity at the same time. This is because I do this for a living, and my average range session involves 3-5 rifles. For somebody who doesn't shoot as much they work fine when mounted on the barrel, as designed.


That was me. Most people want individual shot velocities and averages in a string. When shooters are testing five or ten reloaded cartridges, almost everyone wants the avg of strings with different powders (and targets with holes grouped tightly together).

It is your choice to use the Magnetospeed mounted separately from the rifle. I suspect their R&D folks liked the idea of a muzzle mounted system however, so that shooters didn't have to interrupt the line if they had to access the chronograph. Set up is faster too. That makes perfect sense.

Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Will also comment that no, we don't "need" a chronograph to handload. But since buying my first one have learned that they save a lot of time and ammo, partly by reducing the "need" to add more powder until "pressure signs" appear, and partly by providing accurate velocity info that helps considerably in predicting downrange trajectory.


I believe this is the most useful part of having a chronograph. If you are matching the published load velocities for a specific bullet weight and cartridge, it's reasonable to assume that all is well. Higher than expected velocities, paired with increased felt recoil and funny looking primers are a great reason to double check your loads. Better safe than sorry.


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I’ve got a LabRadar and I’ve had it read 17 caliber bullets from my Hornet with zero issues. Haven’t tried anything over 3900 fps. Don’t usually shoot super fast cartridges. I have found the LabRadar is extremely particular about where it’s aimed. That’s the only time I’ve had issues with it picking up shots. Once I had it aligned at the target well it’s picked up 17 and 20 cal bullets with zero issues.

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My Labradar was aimed well enough to pick up other bullets with no issues when it refused to read the 6mm Hornadys A-Tips.

Their flat base (which is what the Labradar reads on any bullet) is about .15 inch in diameter. Never had it read .17s, and don't know of any boat-tailed .17 caliber bullets--or at least none I tested were BTs. Also had it fail to read anything close to 3900 fps. Neither my ProChronos or Oehler have failed to read any bullet. Which is why I sold my Labradar.

If yours works for your purposes, great! I would definitely buy another IF those problems are solved,


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Steve,

Thanks for your comments.

I am also sure the MS folks liked the simple muzzle-mounting as a selling point--especially since it can be done on any range, without having to spend time out in front of the bench.

That said, with the separate mounting of the Magnetospeed I use, it's really easy to use it for several rifles WITHOUT switching the chronograph to various rifles. Instead I just set it up, and make sure the muzzle is close above the V at the rear of the MS with each rifle. This is far quicker when testing several rifles. The only potential problem is whether the bench is long enough to accommodate the stand. So far it's worked fine on both the concrete tables at the local range where I'm a life member, and on the Stukey's portable bench I often use on public land when the other range is too crowded for my purposes.

John


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
...make sure the muzzle is close above the V at the rear of the MS with each rifle.

JB, how close does the sensor need to be below the bore? No more than an inch? Two inches?


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When hearing talk about chronograph numbers that are better than the mfgs stated margin of error, I just smile and nod. wink

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Uncle Alps,

Half an inch below the barrel itself, if I recall correctly.


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Had a Shooting Chrony, purchased in the '99 time frame as I recall. It's still ticking but in other hands. Light was a problem, solved by removing the sun shades on bright days with Ol' Sol overhead.

About 2-3 years ago I purchased a Pro Chrono with a little box that gives a readout by the shooter. Both have been cross checked, same day, same loads, results varied about 3-5 fps as I recall. I like the Pro Chrono. I have tried for over 20 years to shoot one of the dang things but have failed miserably. Tips appreciated.

DD


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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
I have tried for over 20 years to shoot one of the dang things but have failed miserably. Tips appreciated.

DD
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Originally Posted by RickBin
I took my Labradar to the range yesterday and shot 20-plus strings of .45 ACP through it …. nooooo ….. with it.

Mostly 8-round mags with a specific powder charge each working up loads.

It was very nice not to have to shoot 200 rounds offhand through a “window.” It allowed me to put up a bunch of bulls on one target and have a new aiming point for each mag.

I like the data output per mag. Provides a ton of “fireside reading” for later. smile

The Labradar ain’t perfect, but there is a lot to like about it.

Wants, in order of priority for ME:

1.
Let me return to a previous string and add to it, so when I am shooting rifles I can be shooting one while another (or more) are cooling, and I can go back and resume collecting data on a now-cooled rifle.

2. Capture shotgun data.

3. Capture ultra fast small caliber rifle data (it captures my .223 loads just fine).

4. Capture arrow speed.

I am sure there are others …

1. YES. I contacted the manufacturer a couple of years ago requesting this function.

3. Agreed. Though I’ve been able to capture .17 HMR data, but as mentioned, aligning of the LR with the axis of the bullet’s trajectory becomes critical with small bullets.

4. I’ve chronoed arrow speed several times, but using Doppler triggering mode is necessary.

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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Had a Shooting Chrony, purchased in the '99 time frame as I recall. It's still ticking but in other hands. Light was a problem, solved by removing the sun shades on bright days with Ol' Sol overhead.

About 2-3 years ago I purchased a Pro Chrono with a little box that gives a readout by the shooter. Both have been cross checked, same day, same loads, results varied about 3-5 fps as I recall. I like the Pro Chrono. I have tried for over 20 years to shoot one of the dang things but have failed miserably. Tips appreciated.

DD

Lots of people poo poo Shooting Chronys, but they were one of the first affordable chronographs and a step along the way. Certainly, technology has improved, and the fact that they are no longer in business might indicate that they didn't keep up with the times. You'll look back at your Chrony with fondness remembering the day you finally put a bullet in it.

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If you wish to shoot it, use a fluorescent green sticker and place it in the centre of the face of the Chrony. That's your aiming point. Ta da!


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Steve Redgwell
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