Well if he’s gonna go over with me he needs to lose the cowboy hat while indoors. WTF?
Is that socially unacceptable where CB hats are common?
It's a manners thing (where manners are practiced) to remove one's hat when you enter a room. You'll see it without fail with military personnel and lots of old cowboys.
In the traditional Western ranching culture hat etiquette has always been around. As we have become more mobile it has become less so but it is still considered good manners in many places. When you enter someone's home, knock on a door, or speak to an older female (someone's mom/folks), taking your hat off is a sign of respect. This is where the term "Hat in Hand" actually means something.
Many people who own horses but may not necessarily be in the out-west ranching community may not be as in tune with it, but if you go to a place like Jordan Valley Oregon or a ranch in very rural Northern Nevada/Southern Idaho/Owyhee County ID to one of the ranches there, it is more normal, even if half the people are wearing ball caps these days.
Thanks for the replies. I don't generally wear a hat in a house but will in a store. Never at a table when eating. I see the "unchurched" wear hats in church now. That one makes me cringe.
In the traditional Western ranching culture hat etiquette has always been around. As we have become more mobile it has become less so but it is still considered good manners in many places. When you enter someone's home, knock on a door, or speak to an older female (someone's mom/folks), taking your hat off is a sign of respect. This is where the term "Hat in Hand" actually means something.
Many people who own horses but may not necessarily be in the out-west ranching community may not be as in tune with it, but if you go to a place like Jordan Valley Oregon or a ranch in very rural Northern Nevada/Southern Idaho/Owyhee County ID to one of the ranches there, it is more normal, even if half the people are wearing ball caps these days.
I grew up somewhat in the Western ranching culture, going back to my paternal grandparents homesteading in central Montana, when a homestead was a half-section instead of a quarter. They didn't know each other until they took up adjoining 320s alongside one of the few year-round (but small) streams in the area, but after getting married had an entire square mile, which they eventually proved up, unlike most homesteaders.
My first full-time job after high-school was as a ranch-hand, long before most cowboys started wearing ball-caps. And yes, it was indeed traditional good manners to take hats off indoors, or in the presence of women. Some guys even took them off (as well as work-gloves) when meeting some other guy for the first time, and shaking hands.
Remember that starting to change in the 1990s, especially when (as somebody noted around then) that "most working cowboys wear ball caps and running shoes anymore. The Californians who move here wear big hats and 'cowboy boots,' especially when they go to a trendy restaurant."
In fact, my grandmother (who homestead by herself in 1919) always wore a dress, even when she went hunting--and she was an avid hunter and the best shot in the family. She regularly used a .22 pump to wingshoot gamebirds--which may or may not be due to knowing Ed McGivern, who also lived in Lewistown. She eventually became superintendent of schools in the county, and had Ed give shooting demonstrations at the high school. It was definitely a different time....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Hat etiquette is practiced all around our community, that being The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina.
I prefer not to wear a hat, but I do need to keep the sun off somewhat. I do not where a hat indoors. (Three steps either way.) No one wears a hat at my dinner table. In the past, when the boys have had friends leave a hat on in the house I correct them (nicely.) Adults I don't bother with but few around us would wear a hat inside anyway.
Out in public.... yes, I've seen baseball caps in church a few times....amazing. I was always taught that uncovering at the table was a measure of respect for the food and the person who prepared it.
We have certain social conventions intended to show respect, good manners and good upbringing. I guess in a sense, these conventions are an unspoken assurance to the people you interact with that you are a decent, non-threatening person.
Just a surface indication that much of the fabric of our society is coming unravelled.
To be fair, it was a video made for public consumption. They weren't actually sitting down for a visit or a meal. Both of them were wearing hats and it might be thought of as set dressing.
My only issue with his hat was it shadowed his face. And were his shooting glasses hanging off his belt when he went live?
Whoa! That last paragraph is a book waiting. I have Mcgivern's book and am amazed at what he could do.
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Quote
In the traditional Western ranching culture hat etiquette has always been around. As we have become more mobile it has become less so but it is still considered good manners in many places. When you enter someone's home, knock on a door, or speak to an older female (someone's mom/folks), taking your hat off is a sign of respect. This is where the term "Hat in Hand" actually means something.
Many people who own horses but may not necessarily be in the out-west ranching community may not be as in tune with it, but if you go to a place like Jordan Valley Oregon or a ranch in very rural Northern Nevada/Southern Idaho/Owyhee County ID to one of the ranches there, it is more normal, even if half the people are wearing ball caps these days.
I grew up somewhat in the Western ranching culture, going back to my paternal grandparents homesteading in central Montana, when a homestead was a half-section instead of a quarter. They didn't know each other until they took up adjoining 320s alongside one of the few year-round (but small) streams in the area, but after getting married had an entire square mile, which they eventually proved up, unlike most homesteaders.
My first full-time job after high-school was as a ranch-hand, long before most cowboys started wearing ball-caps. And yes, it was indeed traditional good manners to take hats off indoors, or in the presence of women. Some guys even took them off (as well as work-gloves) when meeting some other guy for the first time, and shaking hands.
Remember that starting to change in the 1990s, especially when (as somebody noted around then) that "most working cowboys wear ball caps and running shoes anymore. The Californians who move here wear big hats and 'cowboy boots,' especially when they go to a trendy restaurant."
In fact, my grandmother (who homestead by herself in 1919) always wore a dress, even when she went hunting--and she was an avid hunter and the best shot in the family. She regularly used a .22 pump to wingshoot gamebirds--which may or may not be due to knowing Ed McGivern, who also lived in Lewistown. She eventually became superintendent of schools in the county, and had Ed give shooting demonstrations at the high school. It was definitely a different time....
I have McGivern's book as well--which is of course great.
But also have memories of my father (then in high school) telling me about McGivern's shooting demonstration on if I recall correctly, the football field of the high school--which was then on edge of Lewistown. Ed put marbles between the fingers of his hand, threw them all up in the air, then shattered every one with his revolver. Would have loved to have seen that!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
When I was in grade school in Circle Montana, we had an assembly in the gymnasium where a fellow and his wife and young sons put on a quick draw show, shooting balloons with blanks among other things. That was in the early 1970s. I've since wondered if I got to see Bob Munden in his early years.
And Mule Deer, the first article of yours I ever read was in the 1989 Gun Digest, I believe, on hunting in the west.
John, my great grandmother sounds like yours. Homesteaded a place near Glendive, wore dresses always - even when riding and roping. Side-saddle naturally. Lived in a sod house, later put up wood walls but still a dirt floor when my grandma was growing up.
Good shot per her son's - and they were very good themselves. I think it was Mike Venturino that had a picture in an article from that area and era of an unnamed woman I wondered if it was her. I'm the only one left who has seen her and I was only a year old at the time and what few pictures we had for a comparison disappeared after my grandmother's death.
Huh. Can't think of her maiden name off hand but she married a Shakk. Her husband's claim to fame was having the first motorcar in the area. And having written a book. At least that is the story regarding the car though grandma was a little off about the details of her father in law shooting another man. Now that I think of it, I don't recall my great uncles ever mentioning the car. I know about the book as I have seen a copy of it.
I'll have to ask my dad's cousin for more information as she is still alive and only 15 minutes from me. She did a genealogy on the Shakk side but I don't know how much from great grandma's side is known. She was a force to contend with as she kept her boys walking the straight and narrow - mostly. Those boys were real characters; coming of age in the 20s, working construction through the Depression, WWII in the Pacific and Europe, and a lifetime hunting and fishing. I received a bunch of equipment from one and a fear of joining the Marines from the other!
Let me know if you find any other names. I've got a book put together in the 1980s that is a collection of Dawson County family histories. But Shakk wasn't in the index.
Well said, J.B..... I have already been through that stage of older age and the "who the hell is this kid and what is he doing here?" syndrome. Over the years I now let new writers do their thing and more often than not I discover that they are worth reading and enjoying. Hell; I only have about 3 years on you and can recall when I first started seeing seeing articles by some guy named Barsness that I'd never heard of.
Yep, Jeremiah is the son of the owner/publisher of Wolfe. While I haven't seen Jeremiah for quite a while, do know that he's a real rifle loony, perhaps even more than his father. I found the column interesting, partly because of his obvious loonyism--more so than some older writers who previously wrote the column--who often repeated what they'd written before, sometimes more than once.
We need "young blood" in gun writing, and NONE of the older writers started out knowing nearly as much as they do now. The industry needs more younger writers, especially those willing to keep learning.
Glad you liked the articles from me and Brian, but I find the wide array of interests and experience in HANDLOADER writers provides an interesting mix. As an example, Randy Bimson spent years with SAAMI before starting to write his column, which as a result provides far more insight into the more technical aspects of handloading. There are also Terry Wieland's adventures with really old cartridges and rifles, which I always enjoy, even though my interests in older stuff don't coincide with Terry's very often, and Rick Jamison's fine piece on the new Oehler technology, which will interest OTHER readers.
The HANDLOADER magazine of today isn't the same one I started writing for 30 years ago, but it still provides something for a wide variety of readers. Which is why I started sending articles to the magazine in the first place: Had been reading it for years already, and always enjoyed the wide array of subjects and writers.
Hat etiquette is practiced all around our community, that being The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina.
I prefer not to wear a hat, but I do need to keep the sun off somewhat. I do not where a hat indoors. (Three steps either way.) No one wears a hat at my dinner table. In the past, when the boys have had friends leave a hat on in the house I correct them (nicely.) Adults I don't bother with but few around us would wear a hat inside anyway.
Out in public.... yes, I've seen baseball caps in church a few times....amazing. I was always taught that uncovering at the table was a measure of respect for the food and the person who prepared it.
We have certain social conventions intended to show respect, good manners and good upbringing. I guess in a sense, these conventions are an unspoken assurance to the people you interact with that you are a decent, non-threatening person.
Just a surface indication that much of the fabric of our society is coming unravelled.
You know, I made that hat crack just because it was there, if you know what I mean. I don’t think the man’s being rude, it just seems like the hat is a prop or an affectation, not what he wears ordinarily when he loads. That’s reenforced by him wearing a ball cap when he’s outside shooting in the other videos, where a wide brim might be really useful. At any rate, I wish him well in his new position, and based on the piece just read he’ll do just fine, even without the family connection. Nothing wrong with putting your child in a job if you can either, especially when he’s able.
I think that I am like a lot of people in that it takes me some time to warm to folks, whether in person or in writing. I have actually matured to the point where I recognize this and allow for it. I don't always wind up liking the person, but I have also become more tolerant of those with whom I don't click. (It might actually be more my fault than theirs.)
As to JB's mention of the Jamison article on the new Oehler, it is reminiscent of the very early issues of Handloader where many an article left me scratching my head in verification of how lacking I am in technical ability/understanding.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
Just bought Handloader off the rack to read Jeremias piece. +1 for him not using the "aplomb" word.
Bet he has access to great loading equipment and didn't start off with Lee stuff. Wish him well.
I only buy Handloader off the rack as I can quickly page through to see if there is content interesting for my purposes. Takes just a moment to evaluate as the magazine has abbreviated articles for the most part.
A couple months or so ago JB commented about magazine editors limiting length or word count due the industries data suggesting that modern readers have a limited attention span and tend to not like longer reads if I recall the discussion correctly.
I get that, but............ I did thank JB as his work is fairly deep, covering technical topics well and crafted to be attractive wordsmithing.
If the world were mine to construct as I wish I'd suggest JB coach new guy Jeremia to politely ignore article word count and abbreviation therefore providing a complete article.
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