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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Thinking about this some more: Imagine, theoretically, that with a perfect harmoniously balanced load with the perfect bullet, in a barrel that could (again theoretically mind you) put 3 or 5 into a tiny cluster at 100 yards - if that barrel wiggled just .001" while the bullet is traveling down the bore that equates to almost 3/8" deviation at that distance. (3600 inches in 100 yards x .001" = .360") Given that said barrel could just as easily wiggle in the opposite direction during the second shot as it did for the first shot, right there is almost 3/4" extreme spread in the grouping built into the gun, and that's just with a thousandth of an inch lateral play. Factor in that a hardware store quality rifle surely has more than a thousandth of play/wiggle/tolerance ...
If all of the things mentioned above actually did contribute to inherent inaccuracy of a Savage 219, as described, then this cast bullet target must have been shot by someone possessing marksmanship skills rivaling those of Davy Crockett:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

But, as I certainly cannot routinely put one rifle ball atop another dead center in a bullseye at 100 yards, standing, perhaps the Savage 219 is not much of a handicap after all. Theoretically, that is.

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As impressively average as that group is, and as neat as the rifle is, it wouldn't win any CBA or ASSRA matches, theoretically, but would certainly work to prove my theory.


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Your theory suggested that a Savage 219 should not be up to producing such an average group. Though obviously incapable of winning any CBA or ASSRA matches, such an average group certainly does forecast a successful end to a stalking hunt.

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Since, despite my decrepitude I’m still a hunter at heart (and in practice so far as I’m able), my focus with rifles is mostly about their use for that, and more accuracy (or precision) beyond that is wasted. Little groups make me smile like everyone else, but no more than the pleasure I get from the heft of a nice field gun while out and about.

My Henry .308, before the thugs at UPS futzed it up on the way back from the recall, made tidy little clusters with some hand-me-down loads built for something else. By the time it came back the second time with a new barrel I had acquired another .308, so let it go to a new home. Have big plans for the .357 in the pipe, which will come home when turkey season us over and the garden in. Won’t be any matches, but my club has a bunch of plates hanging at 100 yards that are gonna take a beating……..


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Originally Posted by Exchipy
Your theory suggested that a Savage 219 should not be up to producing such an average group. Though obviously incapable of winning any CBA or ASSRA matches, such an average group certainly does forecast a successful end to a stalking hunt.

No, I didn't. Obviously you didn't read what I said, which was the inherent source of potential inaccuracies in cheap break open single shots. Please don't put words in my mouth.


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I've had a fair number of break action rifles and shotguns, and they just are what they are. I never go into a deal on one expecting to come home with a tack driving magic laser.

Occasionally one will fall into the better than expected, or utterly hopeless categories, but for the most part, they generally fall into the 2-4MOA shooter ballpark, in my experience.

They used to be great little cheap woods beaters in the days of them floating around used at double or very low triple digit prices, but those times are long past now. Heck, I remember paying under a bill for a brand new 22LR Handi on sale at Walmart in the early 2000s. Those days are never coming back.

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Originally Posted by Exchipy
Your theory suggested that a Savage 219 should not be up to producing such an average group. Though obviously incapable of winning any CBA or ASSRA matches, such an average group certainly does forecast a successful end to a stalking hunt.

No, I didn't. Obviously you didn't read what I said, which was the inherent source of potential inaccuracies in cheap break open single shots. Please don't put words in my mouth.
Good reading comprehension is important for everyone.

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