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Elkhunter AKA Ken, had a reamer and dies, made off of the brass and loaded rounds I gave him, he built a 450 Howell out of a Whitworth .375 Mag. I think, I will measure mine as i don't remember. Rio7

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RIO7,
That would be interesting.



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Visited The Gunsmith today. He might be getting ready to chamber a .500 Jeffery barrel to put on my CZ550 Magnum action.
1:20" twist. It should be a hoot for duplicating .50-140-3.5" BPCR ballistics with cast bullets and Blackhorn 209,
or paper-patched and duplexed BP,
or standard jacketed .500 Jeffery with the usual smokeless powders.

We also discussed a 1:10" twist .458 WM.
He is not hot to do another Ruger No. 1.
I blame myself for trying to get him to do a 20-gauge 3.5" on a Ruger No. 1 ... just a little bigger than a .577 NE rim ...
... extractor/ejector just would not work ...
He now gets really big-bored when he sees me with a Ruger No. 1,
even though he did several for me in smaller calibers, quite successfully.

He is more interested in barreling an FN Mauser or M70 Classic Stainless.
I figure maybe to have a switch barrel with 2 barrels of 1:10" twist,
a long and heavy 28" and lighter 20" barrel.
Use the long one for the 1000-yard shooting with 575-gr CEB, single-loaded.
Use the short one for subsonic suppressed, like the .45 ACP of rifledom.
Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead, at Gunsmith Pace.



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OK slept on the 1:10" twist barrel idea.

22" medium contour barrel (#5 sporter) on FN M98.

26" heavy contour barrel (#6 sporter) on M70 classic.

Hedging the lengths so as to be useful for special purpose and general purpose loads.

[Linked Image]

And nowadays the 3.340" COL and 60,000 psi SAAMI .458 WinMag makes a bloody big hole through anything needing a bloody big hole,
in the most practical manner.



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Riflecrank, thankfully you are back with a vengeance



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
OK slept on the 1:10" twist barrel idea.

22" medium contour barrel (#5 sporter) on FN M98.

26" heavy contour barrel (#6 sporter) on M70 classic.

Hedging the lengths so as to be useful for special purpose and general purpose loads.

[Linked Image]

And nowadays the 3.340" COL and 60,000 psi SAAMI .458 WinMag makes a bloody big hole through anything needing a bloody big hole,
in the most practical manner.

I have no idea what the actual contours of the M70 Super Express at 22" and the Mark X / Whitworth at the near 24" equate to, but I like them both for a general purpose rifle. The Mark X / Whitworth may eventually receive a trim to 22 or 21".

I think the barrel contours for the Winchester 375 H&H Safari Express and stainless classics also are more appropriate to 458's. Though not too shabby in .416.

Edit = I fully agree on the 1-10". No idea how that would do with hard-cast powder coated bullets ??

Last edited by ldmay375; 05/13/22.
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Hornady 480 gr DGS, 76 gr. AA2230 2232FPS out of Interarms MarkX



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if i could draw a tag for antelope or deer my top rifle too hunt with would be my Winchester classic safari 458 win mag with a350gr bullet and my reloads. I wish I would of bought a 458 win mag long a go when i was younger!

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Originally Posted by mooshoo
if i could draw a tag for antelope or deer my top rifle too hunt with would be my Winchester classic safari 458 win mag with a350gr bullet and my reloads. I wish I would of bought a 458 win mag long a go when i was younger!

No doubt about it, they are a lot easier to shoot when you are younger and your brain not as well developed. The more experience and years you get, the more you tend to challenge your own thinking.

Just joking of course........458 Caliber is a must for every gun safe.


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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Back to basic .458 WM loads with 350-gr Speer "tough enough" bullet as previously suggested,
power enough for anything in NA:

I did a review of this bullet when first released maybe 30 odd years ago. What was memorable for me, was the accuracy and I clearly recall getting groups a shade over half inch at 100 yards even from a Marlin .45/70, though I have to check my notes to see whether I loaded it in the heavier .458's.


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I shot a bear with that bullet from my first .458 Win Mag, at an MV of 2345 fps and a reduced load of AA2015. And that was from a bolt action 22" M77 Ruger. It's also a very good bullet from a single-shot Ruger #1 in .45-70 at around that same speed.

Bob
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Hornady 480 gr DGS, 76 gr. AA2230 2232FPS out of Interarms MarkX


Originally Posted by jwp475
Riflecrank, thankfully you are back with a vengeance

Sir John,
Buy a donkey for the flowers, and buy a donkey for your latest 480-gr DGS load too.
I broke my foot on 4-26-2022 and have been letting it heal in steel-toed work boots.
Had to drive my little pick-em-up truck to Florida and drive a U-Haul back with Wife's deceased Mom's treasures,
loaded the truck too, with a broke foot.
Limped 8 miles behind my lawnmower since then too, and gotta do it again in a few days.
I am on the mend.
When the foot is good again, I will bulldog the Iron WaterBoard Buffalo out to the creek for some tests of solid bullets,
including the Lehigh 380-gr copper FN, CEB 450-gr brass FN,
and lo and behold:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Originally Posted by ldmay375
I have no idea what the actual contours of the M70 Super Express at 22" and the Mark X / Whitworth at the near 24" equate to, but I like them both for a general purpose rifle. The Mark X / Whitworth may eventually receive a trim to 22 or 21".

I think the barrel contours for the Winchester 375 H&H Safari Express and stainless classics also are more appropriate to 458's. Though not too shabby in .416.

Edit = I fully agree on the 1-10". No idea how that would do with hard-cast powder coated bullets ??

Sir Larry,
I will be able to try some heavy cast bullets at low velocity in a 1:10" twist .458 soon. Fingers crossed.
But the 1:10" will be forgiven if no good with cast, due to its special purpose utility.
Certainly 1:14" is the best all-around twist for a .458 WM.

The M70 Super Express .458 WM is pretty close to a No. 5 Sporter contour, but so are the .375 and .416 M70 factory barrels.
Good on the .458, but a bit heavier with the smaller bores, aye.
The Whitworth is closer to a No. 4 Sporter at the muzzle on the .458 but is a bit beefier closer to the breech, nice contour for balance.
Again, same profile on the smaller bores makes them heavier.
CZ 550 Magnum is close to a No. 4 Sporter for .458, .416, and .375.
Winchester, Whitworth, CZ all have their departures somewhere between breech and muzzle,
differing in their tapering and swelling from the the more standard barrel maker contours.

Super Express compared to Whitworth, photos:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Originally Posted by mooshoo
if i could draw a tag for antelope or deer my top rifle too hunt with would be my Winchester classic safari 458 win mag with a350gr bullet and my reloads. I wish I would of bought a 458 win mag long a go when i was younger!

mooshoo,
Pick your Sir Name.
You deserve a seat at The Square Table.



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Sir Woods,
Glad to hear of the accuracy of the Speer .458/350-grainer.
It did good work on bear for Sir Bob.
Tough enough and accurate too !



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Sir Jerry did some depredation-prevention at his broccoli patch:

[Linked Image]

This is inspirational for perfecting a squib load with single roundball for the .458 WinMag.
Subsonic for pest and pot.



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Highly anticipated, the 400- to 405-gr Hammer FN solid will be so much better and an easy handloading task
to match velocity to the 404-gr Shock Hammer.
Can be used at 1800 fps to 2500 fps for Lever Action .45-70 to Bolt Action .458 WinMag.
Seated deep in the SAAMI .45-70 Gov't., PDR bands "all in."
Seated shallowly in the SAAMI .458 WinMag, PDR bands "all out."
Well, more out than in.
2 or 3 PDR bands near base of bullet will be in.
This allows greater room for a 101% net fill with AA-2230.
That's impossible with the peculiar band structure of the CEB FN bullets.
They recommend minimum of two bands inside the case,
and when those two bands are near a half inch apart, it is not ideal, except for COL-challenged cartridges.



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Highly anticipated, the 400- to 405-gr Hammer FN solid will be so much better and an easy handloading task
to match velocity to the 404-gr Shock Hammer.
Can be used at 1800 fps to 2500 fps for Lever Action .45-70 to Bolt Action .458 WinMag.
Seated deep in the SAAMI .45-70 Gov't., PDR bands "all in."
Seated shallowly in the SAAMI .458 WinMag, PDR bands "all out."
Well, more out than in.
2 or 3 PDR bands near base of bullet will be in.
This allows greater room for a 101% net fill with AA-2230.
That's impossible with the peculiar band structure of the CEB FN bullets.
They recommend minimum of two bands inside the case,
and when those two bands are near a half inch apart, it is not ideal, except for COL-challenged cartridges.


How much AA2230 can you get behind the 404 gr Shock Hammer at magazine length for a Interarms MarkX



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Sir John,
With the 404-gr Shock Hammer, loosely poured and "shaken not stirred" AA-2230 for a full case at 3.340" COL
is about 70 grains with W-W, Hornady, and R-P brass.
If you use Norma .458 WinMag brass that figure is about 4 grains more.
For 3.340" COL those respective figures are 70 and 74 grains.
For 3.380" COL: 72 grains and 76 grains.
For 3.480" COL: 76 grains and 80 grains.
For 3.580" COL: 80 grains and 84 grains.

Increase your net case capacity by about 4 grains by loading 0.100" longer
or by switching from W-W/Hornady/R-P brass to Norma brass.

Use a drop tube made from an aluminum arrow shaft with a funnel on each end
and you can add a grain or two more without compression.
Add a grain or two more on top of that for mild compression,
enough to prevent bullet setback on battering.
Good crimp on top of that prevents coitus interruptus of bullet and case.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Veritable orgy of bullets and brass pictured above.



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Had to go to Nashville, TN for airport run yesterday.
On the way home I stopped by the nearby Mt. Juliet shop, The Reloader's Bench, always fun in the past,
but pickings are getting pretty slim nowadays.
However I was delighted to liberate the last lonely bags of .458 WM and .45-2.6" brass.
I was sort of hoping to find a remnant of 500 Jeffery brass, no luck there,
but I sure got lucky with the .458 WM: Same headstamp as on the original 1956-1957 factory ammo !
62 pieces for 60 dollars in a dusty, lonely, plastic bag.
With the brass and ammo Sir Tony donated, I now have 77 pieces with same headstamp.
Cheers ! Still looking for his bottle.
I found a set of CH4D dies for the .458 WM also, for $50, new in dusty box.
And a great book:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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