Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Force Fetch question

Buddy told me more dogs been ruined with e-collars. So no thanks..

Is your buddy saying he has ruined more dogs with an ecollar than not? Or, is he stating he knows a larger number of people who do not know the proper use of an ecollar than those that do? An ecollar is merely a tool which has no ability in and of itself to make or break a dog.

Instead, it is up to the user to acquire the knowledge to properly use the tool to its best advantage. An ecollar is not the best tool for someone to learn by trial and error, especially for the dog. Blaming the ecollar for the shortcomings of the user is not something I would expect from a knowledgable trainer.

When I started with ecollars, "fry" was the term used as there was only one setting and it was "Fry". Later, "lit up" began to be substituted as it was deemed gentler and more in tune with the thought process behind the use of ecollars at that time. It seemed to occur about the same time lights were put on the receivers though one wouldn't see the light come on when in the field. Later still it was "correction", "stimulus", "tap", or any number of less objectionable terms as the use of ecollars became more refined and as the method or characteristic of the shock changed.

Thanks for the replies guys. Its apparent that some guys get it and some guys assume. Even with the terms “light em’ up” and “fry” used, those with knowledge and experience know that you’re not sending the dog to the electric chair. Others think you’re being cruel and unusual and need your butt kicked for the horrible way you treat your best friend. It’s the same with “force fetch”. I know it sounds like you’re forcing the dog to do something it doesn’t want to do in the first place, but it just isn’t so. The use of a toe hitch, ear pinch or e-collar is just a way to apply stimulus. As I said before, I will always force fetch a dog from here on out. It’s made his obedience level all around better because of it.

I know each dog is different and some can take enormous pressure while others cower at a harsh glance. I knew very early on that I would be e-collar training my Draht so right from the get go I had him wear the collar every time we were out. It wasn’t even turned on at first and then when it was used in training, I saw what level he responded to and actually used it on myself. To this day, bringing the collar and remote out is just like bringing out the shotgun or loading the crate. The dog has associated all this with his best times and relishes it. He doesn’t try to get away from it but instead is eager to have it on. To each his own I guess.

As far as FF….if the Dig doesn’t respond to your acceptable level of “stimulus”, where do you go next”?

And let’s be honest….stimulus is a sugar coat for pain. Sounds better to the uninformed. Both those for and against the blood sports.

And the newer collars are using a different type (for lack of a better word) of shock that produces a different degree of shock. Something about the wavelength(?) which results in a less intense shock. I might be wrong but I understand it as the difference between the zap you get touching an electric fence powered by a 6v lantern battery and placing your tongue across the anodes of a 9v transistor battery.

At least I think this is a newer development, I've just been hearing of it lately. It could be what Dogtra has been doing for years as they have a much greater degree of adjustment than Tritronics. It might explain why the trainer I know best refers to some dogs as Dogtra dogs and others as TT dogs.

You could be right about the stimulus on the Dogtra. That’s what I have and the range is from 1 to o think around 130 or so. My dog responds at around 27-30. Barely anything at all.
As for what’s next if the dog doesn’t respond to the stimulus, I’ve never had one not so I guess I’d have to think about it.

I’m not completely against FF, but I’ve seen it get ugly.

He’s seen people (not trainers)improperly use them. They start hitting the shock button for stupid chit and the dog has no idea what they did wrong. If we were to do it with our youngest lab it would be with a trainer. No way in hell I do it, not saying I’m a idiot who would shock the dog for no reason, but I’m not comfortable doing it.

You don't need a license to be a dog trainer or horse trainer, all most trainers do it tell every one they are a trainer and get some cards printed, very few are qualified for the job, but they can talk a good game, funny how that works. Rio7

But our youngster demonstrates everything Battue said. Loves to fetch, listens to you, when you throw the ball or bumper he’s looking for it in the air. In the house he will find a ball and flip it in your lap. He needs works, but has a lot of potential being a good duck dog.

I started using the e collar about thirty years ago with my last three Labs. All of them had and have the same positive reaction to it that Mbogo2106 described re his dog. It's like the e collar means good times ahead. IMO the e collar training also overlapped into a positive overall effect on their behavior/obedience even when they weren't wearing it.

He sounds like an idiot.Shock is only used for life threatening situations. I use lower shock setting to break dogs at young age chasing, deer, rattle snakes. and other critters they are not to supposed with leave it command. Continuos shocking will quickly kill a dog's desire to hunt with you and ruin it.


. Vibrate or beep works great for training reinforcement. and II use a food reward in conjunction with ecollar on vibrate early in dog's training. After a month of sessions rarely have to use. I still will always have an e collar on while hunting for back up

Putting on e collar means fun times. Ive been fortunate to never have had to force fetch any of my dogs. Some at a year or so will have a stubborn streak and not complete fetch, get distracted and back on the long lead they go til over it. it end pretty quickly. Training should be enjoyable for both

I never use a setting if I haven't tested it on myself first. The original one power level collars were a wreck waiting to happen.

Force fetching a dog is a building block for training a gun or test dog. It should not cause pain to a dog in the process. For me, it’s purpose is to add pressure to a dog and teach him how to handle and turn the pressure off. It is very important that a dog is able to handle pressure and knows how to handle it and not shut down. When I say pressure, I’m not referring to pain. I’m referring to a dog wanting to please and understanding how to communicate.

Fetch means fetch.
This guy snuck in and attacked a goose decoy !
A load of #2 steel ended his appetite for goose breasts..
Trap watched the whole thing go down.
After getting to the coyote, he smelled it all over, but figured on a hold, and brought it back to me.
Here he's at the house, just as proud as could be, carrying around a 43 pound coyote.

how man y bird dogs has your buddy trained?

get a collar with a vibrate mode. Most have that function

I've been using that feature for 30 years maybe. I use it as a silent Whoa command. The use you are suggesting is just as easily handled with stimulus with no greater amount of pain.

I also use the tone feature, a short blip is for the dog to check back with me and a steady tone is the recall. These "silent" commands are very nice when birds are spooky, the dogs are at longer range, and/or when it is windy. I've had people think my dogs are mind readers as the dogs appear to know my intentions without me saying a word.

Ecollars are a tremendous boon to dog training but, like any other tool - even a leash- it can be abused by those who have no clue on how to properly use one or if intentionally misused. I've trained dogs with a number of modern training tools and have done it without. I'll take the modern tools any day of the week.

Maybe true for an average Joe bird hunter who is willing to put up with mediocre performance. Run field trials, Master Hunter level hunt tests, NAVHDA Utility level tests and see how far you'll get without force fetch training.