Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Handgun Choice for Flyfishing in Bear Country

In NM I would probably pack a .40 s&w.

480 Alaskan- in Alaska.

Most anywhere else, a 45 auto with 230-255 grain flat nose cast.

I know zip about the bears in New Mexico but I fly Fish in East Tennessee, Western North Carolina and Pennsylvania where there are plenty of small, medium and large black bears. I carry either a Flattop Blackhawk or a Charter Arms stainless target Bulldog in .44 Special . I load the Blackhawk to Elmer Keith level with 2400 and the Charter Arms carries Skeeter Skelton's Unique load with the Keith bullet cast fairly hard. Never needed it but it's there if I do. I love my 1911's but I trust my revolvers just a bit more in this particular situation.

My 2 cents:

Since he has little experience with handguns, and choosing the right handgun for someone else is difficult, maybe try this- if you have access to different revolvers or semi autos, or if you can get him to a range to rent different handguns, have him try some out. Stick to .357 mag or above for revolvers and 9mm or above for semi autos. See what feels best to him and what he shoots better. Try full power loads not target level loads.

If he ever needs a handgun for bear defense, it must be drawn and shot quickly and accurately, with a round designed for penetration. Defense situations for bear present different angles and target areas than hunting bears.

How he carries his handgun impacts how quickly he can get it into action. Have him try different methods to ensure the draw will not interfere with his fishing equipment.

Good luck!
Manny

It really depends on the person. It is an individual thing. Things I know about me and “conventional wisdom” big bore handguns: (1) I hate carrying 3 pound handguns; (2) I suck at shooting big magnum revolvers because I don’t shoot them very much and don’t like recoil; and (3) I am slow shooting magnum revolvers. I have shot enough gel, water jugs, meat, bones, wood and other stuff to feel quite confident that 9mm 115 grain Xtreme Penetrators, Buffalo Bore 147 grain +P hard cast, and Mackay_Sagebrush hard cast ammo (same bullet and velocity as the Buffalo Bore, but much less expensive) fired out of my guns will easily cause a traumatic brain injury, penetrate the chest cavity and way beyond, and/or break the front legs of any bear, moose, mountain lion or wolf in my area that is charging me. (I do prefer the Xtreme Penetrators in 3.5 inch barrels and under because of velocity.) I can shoot them much more rapidly than a revolver. I carry only a handgun and those types of ammo when bowhunting. For New Mexico, I wouldn’t feel the need to look beyond a 9mm of any kind and any of those choices of ammo. Now, I don’t have grizzlies in my usual haunts (same for New Mexico), although I have carried my 9mms relatively close to pavement in grizzly country. If I were bowhunting in grizzly country, I would carry my Glock 30 .45ACP with Buffalo Bore 255 grain +P hard cast or the equivalent Mackay_Sagebrush load for a little added insurance. I think that deflave’s suggestion is a decent all-around good pick.

P.S. I have never had to take on a charging bear, so it’s all theory tempered by my knowledge of my shooting capabilities. jwp475, who is a big bore handgun enthusiast, on the other hand, has. So, take his words seriously.

P.P.S. I think that David Walter has pointed out an excellent value.

This thread has been informative with a healthy level of discourse. It’s good to challenge traditional thinking, especially my own. The biggest realization is what you think you should carry in terms of “enough gun” compared to what you would be capable of effectively using in a life-threatening, heart pounding circumstance.

I own a Bisley Blackhawk convertible that can be “loaded for bear” with .45LC +P Underwood hardcast but, could it be drawn quickly, fired multiple times, putting lead in vitals against a charging predator? I have my doubts. I also own a 625MG which handles normal .45LC hardcast and has a reasonable DA trigger pull. I feel my chances would be a little better.

I think the best chances of a “successful defense” for me based on my training and competitive shooting would be afforded by a G17/20/21 or a 1911 TRP or DW Kodiak.

Thank you. The sight on your Les Baer, who is the maker? Does Les Baer make his own sights for his guns? For a carry gun esepecially in the field I always thought fixed sights would be more durable. Nice holster BTW.

Up here in the northern land Glock 20’s rule the roost. My bear load 200gr xtp with 11.8gr of accurate #9.

A LOT of good advice here from people that have “done it”……I haven’t ever faced a charging bear intent on having me for lunch (they would be sorely disappointed) but have carried for years a S&W 696 in .44 Special loaded with 265 grain hardcast bullets at about 900 fps. I wouldn’t have felt better carrying anything else (FWIW). Did have to defuse a 4-500 pound black bear and hunting dog confrontation at my house one time and that is the gun I had available - it worked that time with a shot into a stump beside the bear but he never did run away just turned and slowly walked off (he likely didn’t back down often given his size)…….I was very glad to have had this firearm available!

Good luck making a decision but take heed to the advice given and get you make sure your friend is VERY comfortable with the firearm!

PennDog

Since no one else has mentioned it,
Research Phil Shoemakers 9mm bear kill.

For years he ran against the flow.

Everyone pushed for a handcannon firing the hottest possible loads,
with the intent of crushing a bear. Phil, using the wisdom from years
of hunting big bears, knew that any handgun couldnt produce enough
horsepower to overcome a less than perfect hit.

His opinion was
a 9mm/357 produced enough snot to do the same job as a 44 magnum,
if placed in a nerve center. While having light enough recoil to allow
for quick follow up shots(more chances for that perfect hit).

He eventually was in the position to prove it, with a 9mm and hardcast
loads.


He posted the story here under 458Win a number of years ago.

Here are a couple of old threads on the Phil Shoemaker bear incident, some with comments from Shoemaker himself. Posted to clarify who did what/said what.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11369474/1

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...rotection-9mm-40-s-w-45-acp#Post11241792

Thought it was a 147 Bonded bullet???

Wreckster84: Two years back now, come July, myself and two friends hiked high into the Pioneer Range of the Rocky Mountains to fish for a secret lakes large population of Grayling.
We had along a Glock Model Model 23 in 40 S&W with high capacity magazine.
And thankfully we did have that pistol along as just as we got to the lake a large boar Black Bear came sniffing around the lakes shoreline - right towars us!
We retreated a bit and made our presence known and the Bear defiantly kept walking along the shoreline sniffing the beach - I assume for fish leftovers.
Anyway the Glock Model 23 is relatively small and has a lot of firepower - also impervious to anything a long days fishing/hiking can dish out.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Only saw 13 Bears yesterday,but I do enjoy the recounting of VarmintGal's "That One Time At Band Camp" chilling "Adventures". In fairness however,I've never been Fishing. Hint.

You gals are a "rugged" lot. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

A friend who lives in Alaska has a Ruger Alaskan in .454 Casull. He went to a course put on by the fish and game on stopping a bear with a gun. The bear target moves at you at a running bear speed but not level as so many competitions do. It is bobbing and moving as much like a bear as they can make it. He missed every shot. Recoil and trying to hit a moving target like that was too much for him. Probably for most. He said the only people to make hits were those with shotguns with buckshot. He said it was eye opening. Another friend witnessed a black bear killed with a 9mm (1 shot.) I usually carry a Browning Hi Power in 40 S&W, Ruger GP 100 in 44 Special loaded with 240g cast bullets at 950 fps or a S&W 44 Mag at the same velocity. I have yet to have a problem with bears (but ya never know), but have been glad to have them at times with some humans. Griz are getting more numerous and we have several people mauled every year it seems now and some killed so having something is a good idea if it is not a safe queen when not fishing. Bear spray is easier to hit something with.

I've never been to Alaska,nor know anyone who lives there and your friend missing paper is fascinating. Hint.

You gals are a "rugged" lot. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

As I said above, I've learned a lot from this thread along with reading about Phil Shoemaker's encounter while fishing. Especially entertaining is the ensuing "expert" commentary but, I think I can greatly simplify the whole thing into a engineering equation, after all I are one.

In hunting circumstances, once the target is acquired, Success is a function of Marksmanship & Terminal Ballistics. Reams of pixels (and money) are spent on TB but in reality, M matters more. How much? Great question! Evaluating all of the empirical evidence available would make for interesting study but I'll assume this is close:

S = 80%M + 20%TB

Yes, there is a correlation between M & TB related to an animal's physiology. Hitting a whitetail in the "wrong" place with a .458 Win Mag has a higher likelihood of kill than with a .243Win. Just for grins, I grew up with southern whitetail hunters (family) who swore by the need to carry nothing less than a .30-06 into the woods. Never owned one, but I have friends in Sweden that routinely take moose with my personal favorite, the original 6.5 (x55 Swede).

In defensive situations, whether against homo sapiens or other apex predators, the equation is more complex. Two more factors (at least) enter the equation: Presence of Mind (PM) and Speed (S). I've condensed Speed from several other factors such as: accessibility, time to point (not aim!), cycle time, etc. As for PM, the only thing I know that develops this is training and experience.

Now the equation has 4 factors: M, TB, PM, & S. Using the TB & M relationship from hunting and combining with the defensive factors yields this:

S = 40%M + 10%TB + 30%PM + 20%S

The conclusion I draw from this is 90% of success in a sudden defensive encounter relates to the person and 10% to the projectile. Before all the experts reply and to back this up, read the material by Ed Lovette (Army SF, CIA paramilitary, & LEO) which concludes that a snub-nosed .38+P with 158g SWC is the ideal self defense combination for unexpected close quarter encounters. We're not talking offensive battle but simple self defense in an everyday setting.

Kinda like walking to a fishing stream in Phil's case which was no doubt successful because of the 90%. Interesting how many comments focused on the 10% factor.

BTW, I love 'em and own 'em but, long barreled revolver cannons with 12lb DA triggers in deep leather holsters don't offer speed, period.

Sawed off shotgun on a sling….


And an old joke I was told once -
Otherwise If you take a pistol make sure you file the front sight off your pistol so it doesn’t hurt when you pull it out of your butt because that’s where the bears going to shove it.

small twig: Go back under your rock - you are NOT impressing anyone hereon except possibly your profane, immature and idiotic self!
Sad little man, you must be.
But then again - who cares.
hint.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I'm pretty happy with the XDM10, 200gr cast bullets with as wide of a meplat as I can find, and longshot, but yeah... basically that.

That being said, flave answered this pretty succinctly and with specific recommendations. You could make a case for a lot of changes, like a G19/17/22 instead of a 23, and a GFI Kenai/razco kydex instead of the kit bag (or in addition to the kit bag). But I don't think you'd be righter, just different.