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The 2006 book deals with the first 100 years of Winchester factory ammo boxes.
Oliver F. Winchester became president of Volcanic Repeating Arms Company in December 1856,
which was absorbed into the New Haven Arms Company on May 1, 1857,
and Benjamin Tyler Henry was appointed as plant superintendent.
The 44 Rim Fire and the Henry rifle kept the company alive until the bonanza of the Civil War.
Relations deteriorated between O. F. Winchester and B. T. Henry, and Henry left New Haven Arms in May 1864,
though he was paid through his 5-year superintendent contract period ending June 11, 1865.
But Henry remained a large stockholder and in cahoots with the secretary of the company, C. W. Nott,
while O.F. Winchester was away on business in Switzerland in summer 1865, a name change of the company was done.
By power of attorney in Winchester's absence, New Haven Arms Co. became Henry Repeating Rifle Co.
Less than a year later, through financial muscle flexing, Winchester changed the company name to
WINCHESTER REPEATING ARMS COMPANY, and Henry was out of the loop for good by 1866.
So, Winchester was thus involved with cartridge boxes since 1856, even if those earliest boxes were made of tin
and contained 200 of the ludicrous Volcanic hollow bullets with propellant inside the bullet.

Book review: Excellent book. Chapter 7 deals only with the Model 1885 "High Wall" and more than 70 chamberings.
Does not include some other chamberings on this rifle action by the British, but the 50 Eley is listed, including a chamber drawing.
Excerpt for book review is of the two pages that mention the .458 Winchester Magnum,
first called out as the "Winchester .458 Magnum" marked "Experimental"
and packaged in a 1954-style cardboard box of 20 rounds.
That must be what H. P. White Laboratory and General Hatcher were testing for NRA in late 1955,
for publication in 1956, verifying all claims, using old decrepit powders and bullets.
We have it so much better now,
in bullets and powders,
in the most perfected of rifle cartridges, which cannot be improved upon by mere humans.

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RC, you made out like a fox in a hen house with the farmer on vacation👍

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Photo snagged from the internet:

[Linked Image]

And a re-cap of the Sir Tony ammo, aged for 64 years before firing:

[Linked Image]



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Originally Posted by 44mc
RC, you made out like a fox in a hen house with the farmer on vacation👍

Sir Allen,
I like that line. True dat.

[Linked Image]



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FYI
Over on the Gunrunner Auction site, Lot #300 a Ruger #1 Tropical in the great 458 WM, currently @ $810 Bucks, and ends Tomorrow.
Also lot # 347 has 80 Rds. of Federal Premium Safari, and Winchester 458 WM Ammo.

I know if Kit Carson Had a need he'd be in on it!

I have no Horse in this Race, but I have dealt with this small Auction House, with no trouble.

Good Luck all!

HS58

Last edited by HunterShooter58; 05/22/22.

I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Trailcam from Sir Jerry: Fire breathing hybrid of bear and tiger !

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Might just be a baby, but might could grow to this size:

[Linked Image]

All the more reason to keep a .458 WM+ handy.

[Linked Image]

Keep your magazine full of solids.
Generally, only a single shot of the proper soft from a .458 WinMag or .458 WM+ is required for anything on this planet.
But the possibility of some alien creature recently landed in Oklahoma makes it wise to be prepared for a quick followup shot.
Keep an eye peeled for UFOs and beam me up Scotty.



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Pac-Nor 1:10" twist "Super Match" stainless on an FN Mauser.
SAAMI .458 WinMag chamber.
Sunny Hill drop box hanging below a Bell & Carlson Medalist stock.
Recknagel safety from NECG.
Timney trigger.
Sourdough front sight.
Cerakote finish.
Ol' Fugly the .458 Lott
and Woodie the Whitworth .458 WinRuger can wait.



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Man that's good stuff Sir Ron, especially the bit with Sir Tony's box of 1956 ammunition, i had never given it much thought, but competition, propaganda and pure parrot speak could be the reasons behind near 70 years of 458 WM hatred, it was/is just too good, funny how the light from the rising sun plays in the trail cam, that boney little Bearcat certainly isnt the fat one i have other pics of ; ]

Because of unforeseen events arising with another hunt offered, the great 458 WM+ and 404gr Hammers at 2500 fps will get all shooting duties this Safari, if very nice species of animals cant be found on the original Safari, i'll hunt an additional 5 days at another locale, the 404gr Hammers will do all to 350 yards save fleeing buffalo, he'll get 500gr TBSS's at 2350 fps, i know that will cause loss of steering resulting in a crashing buffalo in a cloud of dust.

That FN/Pac-Nor build is going to be sweet! cant wait to see it when you get it all screwed together.


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Sir Jerry,
That's great News extending the Safari as your able. Opportunity's knocking!
I agree Sir Ron keeps Us all informed along with all the additional added info, from the Square Table's Knights!


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Sir Tony,

Nov. 1955 published lab data on the factory 500-gr FMJ showed 2087 fps instrumental in a 25" barrel.
See bottom line of load data below (from NRA, Gen. Hatcher's RIFLEMAN article):

[Linked Image]

My 2080 fps in a 25" Shilen barrel was corrected to MV.
But I think the Shilen groove diameter might have been 0.4585" instead of the tighter original 0.4582".
And my temp was 50*F instead of 76*F.
Just about identical results considering those differences in test bed, after 64 years on the shelf for your 1957 vintage.
Buy a donkey for taking such good care of that factory ammo.

Inspirational material for Sir Jerry:

[Linked Image]



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Speer cases loaded with 75 grains AA2230 behind 404 grain Shock Hammer COAL is 3.354"
Need new battery before I can chronograph this load in my rifle

Replaced the battery and recorded the velocity, slower than the DGS. Went to 81 grains, heavily compressed at 3.386" velocity is now good

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Last edited by jwp475; 05/26/22.


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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Sir Tony,

Nov. 1955 published lab data on the factory 500-gr FMJ showed 2087 fps instrumental in a 25" barrel.
See bottom line of load data below (from NRA, Gen. Hatcher's RIFLEMAN article):

[Linked Image]

My 2080 fps in a 25" Shilen barrel was corrected to MV.
But I think the Shilen groove diameter might have been 0.4585" instead of the tighter original 0.4582".
And my temp was 50*F instead of 76*F.
Just about identical results considering those differences in test bed, after 64 years on the shelf for your 1957 vintage.
Buy a donkey for taking such good care of that factory ammo.

Inspirational material for Sir Jerry:

[Linked Image]

Sir Ron,
That's great informational Load Data on the 458 WM from 1955 proven tried and true.
26 degrees difference in temps. and not much difference in results. That in itself is interesting Data.
Adding onto the Barn, making more room for Donkeys! LOL!

Last edited by HunterShooter58; 05/28/22.

I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

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Sir Tony,

That is hilarious. I am starting on a barn in my backyard soon as I finish The Queen's sunroom.

Our hero, Sir Jerry, requested I mark the FN of a Hornady DGS 480-grainer for a "classified mission" in Africa.
I did so, as well as the base of a DGX-Bonded 480-grainer, using my Chinese-made, AA-battery-powered "Scratch-It Pro" engraving pen:

[Linked Image]

Above you see the two bullets resting atop Sir Jerry's H&H Royal 500/450 NE.
We will have to wait for his safari to find out what this is all about.
He will be using his .458 WM+ and the 404gr Shock Hammer for all manner of game,
backed up by 500-gr TBSS in case the need for a southward aimed Portuguese Heart Shot arises on southbound bovine.

I presume the nostalgic double rifle will be used ceremoniously to celebrate the .450 NE ballistics that changed everything.
H&H got tired of having to use John Rigby's .450 Rigby Special cartridge in their rifles for adoring sportsmen, after the 1898 frenzy.
They even had to re-throat some of their later .450 BPE Farquharson rifles that could handle the new Cordite and new brass, when sportsman clamored for it.
They called it "coning up the breech."
This allowed the stronger, heavier-barreled single-shot rifles to transition from .450 BPE to .450 NE ammunition.
Shades of the .458 Winchester Magnum throat to come.

So H&H came up with something "bigger and better" the 500/450 "H&H Special/Smokeless" delivering same ballistics at lesser pressure.
Now they had a great excuse not to further John Rigby's domination.
Then came the British ban of .450 bores in rebellious areas of India and Africa, circa 1905, and the Nitro Express Renaming Race was on.
Many more duplications of .450 NE ballistics in double rifles followed.
Shades of the .458 Winchester Magnum domination, denial, and resurrection to come.

Sir Jerry's mission is beyond Top Secret.
Cosmic Squirrel level clearance is required for details.
We will just have to wait for it ...



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Speer cases loaded with 75 grains AA2230 behind 404 grain Shock Hammer COAL is 3.354"
Need new battery before I can chronograph this load in my rifle

Replaced the battery and recorded the velocity, slower than the DGS. Went to 81 grains, heavily compressed at 3.386" velocity is now good

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Buy a donkey for that 3.354" load data, Sir John.
The 404gr Shock Hammer at 2391 fps instrumental with 75 grains of AA-2230: About smack on 2400 fps MV from a 24" barrel.
Anything over 2300 fps is gravy for the meat and mashed potatoes.
Hope you have space in the barn for another donkey.
We welcome all-COL load data for the .458 WM with that bullet from ~3.28" to ~3.58".



Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
Sir Jerry,
That's great News extending the Safari as your able. Opportunity's knocking!
I agree Sir Ron keeps Us all informed along with all the additional added info, from the Square Table's Knights!


Sir Tony, you bet, this deal blew up out of nowhere, i had to jump on it, Sir Ron does an exemplary job on history lessons AND inspirational photos and content, Thanks for the lesson on the British 450's to Sir Ron, the 465's were the result of that india/sudan/kenya/uganda army ban garbage, yet where are they today? i think crying at the great 458 cals return LOL, funny is the Great 458 WM+ with 500gr solids at 2350 while the old double has to regulate at 2148 with 480's, i hope it has enough power for the task at hand ; ] cool


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Sir Ron,
I like that your taking care of your queen, not that you need my approval, but it's very important, as you know! I enjoyed the Winchester Refresher coarse earlier on this page,
as I used to run into Giles and Shuey at the OGCA Shows, as both are fine gentlemen, and a tribute to their fine work. That "TOP SECRET WORK", that Sir Jerry is working on will test Secret Squirrel at his best! Lol!
Keep the great Info. coming as we're all learning a lot, from this great reference! Even going back and re reading the past post are so informative!
I smell a Book in the Works!

Sir Jerry,
We can't wait for the Stories! Pics, and the likes! It's like waiting for another Ernest Hemingway story!

"Sir Jerry Hemingway"

Kinda has a ring to it, Don't it! I know buying another "DONKEY"! lol!!!


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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I think that is SIR GUNNER 500 Jerry BAD A$$ killer of things imop😁😁😁

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LOL, all good Sir Tony and 44, i'm just getting old and thought i best get this rifle to Africa while we can still legally hunt there and export animals back to the states, the back story on my old Holland from previous owner is it has killed ten elephants, so the rifle has definitely btdt, it's one of those rifles one buys and has a very special place of reverence in the gun safe, i have to place those two bullets Sir Ron autographed into the animal at the correct angles so that both can be recovered and sent back to him with a movie on thumb drive of the event, this is going to be a really cool double safari.


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Make us proud Sir Jerry!


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You know i'll do my very best Sir Tony. cool


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