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How long will it take for 6.8 to replace previous rifle cartridges and become the "primary" round? (And what % of previous rifle chamberings will never get replaced?)

Thanks y'all.

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Pure speculation

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Yup. Asking for educated guesses.

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Is the 6.8 still even being considered as a replacement for the 5.56? I thought that ship had sailed?


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The 6.8 is about the same size as the 308 but has 80,000 lbs pressure vs 308 or 7.62x51mm. It can penetrate body armor to 600 yards. This is why they chose this cartridge. It was the only one that could penetrate body armor at that distance. This will take time and will go to the army first. National guard units will still use the 556 for several years to come, like 5-10. Don't know if the Marines or other units will adapt it, but probably will over time. The 6.8 will make all current body armor obsolete.

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277 Fury? 6.8x51 ....

It'll happen fairly fast once SIG gears-up ammo production and is able to meet demand and fill combat stockpile requirments. What's that, 20 billion rounds? Isn't 20 billion the 5.56x45 standard?

What's going to be really interesting to see is what they do with current 5.56x45 stockpiles. They'll keep the 7.62x51 stockpiles, which I'll explain below.

The platforms themselves are already in production so roll out will go to elite units first to put them through their paces on a mass scale. They'll work the bugs out until the the A1 is ready to go into full production. A2s will be years down the road not until after the platforms and rounds are baptised in at least two different combat environments, preferably three ... desert, mountain, jungle. MOUT is already a given ... but this platform, and round, are not really optimized for MOUT. It's a bit of a conundrum.

As I understand it the integrated suppressor systems are going-to-be one of the toughest things to manufacture and supply on a large scale in the beginning. The Chinese own the titanium market.

7.62x51 will never be replaced. It will remain stockpiled and there will be 100s of 1000s of replacement barrels made for the new platform .... eventually .... as backups .... because it is NATO standard.

I was around for the M9 switchover from the 1911s ... 45 ACP to 9mm. I was on the ACE Board in Italy under SETAF in Vicenza that shot some of the first 92s in '83 and again in '84. They had already been presented at Aberdeen stateside by then but our pistol team was close by in Italy at the time so we were chosen to spend the week at Berettas facility shooting. Triggers, mag releases (position), amd safeties were the big changes we suggested from the original 92s before the FS ... plus there were sight issues to some degree and the engineers had some structural requirements that raised some questions about the slides.

After all that was ironed-out (and it didn't take long) we were being issued M9s by mid '85 and there was a full compliment of ammo, to include the combat stockpile, on hand for all the RDF obligated divisions throughout every combat Corp in the U.S. military.

There is already a plan in place. You can bet that two years from now the new platforms and ammo will be in action just in time for this next war we're about to be thrust into to happen. They'll call it battlefield trials and there will be very little civilian ammo made available at first ... it'll take years before noticeable amounts of "surplus" ammo becomes available.

I've made threads about this, about how this new ammo will negatively affect the 2A marketplace for over a decade as contracts are handed out for production of the 277 Fury and all the major manufacturers rush to fill those contracts.

Not being able to reload it, at least for now, is what will relally hurt.

People do not understand how much our ammo marketplace is dependent upon milsurp brass .... andnhow badly it has already hurt us that so much is already being demilled by liberal post commanders.

This new ammo is a game changer on several levels ... some good, some bad.


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I don't think they will ever get rid of the 5.56 due to MOUT requirements.


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
I don't think they will ever get rid of the 5.56 due to MOUT requirements.

They'll have to, but you read my mind ... it's the question everyone is posing.


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Thanks, Rooster.

I read similar reports about the body armor penetration... but then wondered how many infantry engagements really involve 400 to 600 yard shooting? (I'm assuming snipers are going to keep using whatever they were already using on their preferred platforms... the former Ranger I know was big on 300 winmag, but his instructor was still a 308 guy.)

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Body armor at 600 meters? Seems like a made up requirement to force the weapon system upon us. Which in reality is like stepping back to the M14 in a shorter louder platform (without the suppressor). I would like to witness some full auto fire to see how controllable the new weapon is. Personally I think this is a fool thing to do, going to a high pressure non NATO round, dumping the intermediate rounds benefits for what exactly? 600 meter body armor penetration?

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Originally Posted by rickt300
Body armor at 600 meters? Seems like a made up requirement to force the weapon system upon us. Which in reality is like stepping back to the M14 in a shorter louder platform (without the suppressor). I would like to witness some full auto fire to see how controllable the new weapon is. Personally I think this is a fool thing to do, going to a high pressure non NATO round, dumping the intermediate rounds benefits for what exactly? 600 meter body armor penetration?

Full auto in the first few seconds here





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I don't think it's ever going to be widely adopted myself. I think it's going to turn out like the XM25 project.

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Originally Posted by Teal
Originally Posted by rickt300
Body armor at 600 meters? Seems like a made up requirement to force the weapon system upon us. Which in reality is like stepping back to the M14 in a shorter louder platform (without the suppressor). I would like to witness some full auto fire to see how controllable the new weapon is. Personally I think this is a fool thing to do, going to a high pressure non NATO round, dumping the intermediate rounds benefits for what exactly? 600 meter body armor penetration?

Full auto in the first few seconds here





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Thanks for posting.I did not hear any mention of all up weight.Did I miss this?


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Don't know about all up - with IR and all that but I believe Sig says 8lbs or so.


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Originally Posted by dodgefan
I don't think it's ever going to be widely adopted myself. I think it's going to turn out like the XM25 project.

I could think of a few scenarios wherein it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to have a counterpart to the NATO stockpile, re: could still share 308 with allies if necessary, but if we're the only 6.8, that's dedicated. (And Lord knows that lately we ship things around willy-nilly and leave stuff behind...)

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A little over 11 pounds with full mag and suppressor.

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Originally Posted by SCRooster
Originally Posted by Tyrone
I don't think they will ever get rid of the 5.56 due to MOUT requirements.

They'll have to, but you read my mind ... it's the question everyone is posing.
Something else,

Think of all the SDZs on all the bases that will have to be reworked.

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What’s wrong with AR platform rifles in 5.56?

Serious question from an old man.

Am I simple behind times?


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Originally Posted by kaywoodie
What’s wrong with AR platform rifles in 5.56?

Serious question from an old man.

Am I simple behind times?
I don't see why 600+ yards would matter much, but could see how advances in armor at closer ranges might necessitate evolution in ammunition.

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Originally Posted by clockwork_7mm
Originally Posted by kaywoodie
What’s wrong with AR platform rifles in 5.56?

Serious question from an old man.

Am I simple behind times?
I don't see why 600+ yards would matter much, but could see how advances in armor at closer ranges might necessitate evolution in ammunition.

Ok fair enough.


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