Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Little Bighorn question

Anybody know where a fellow could find an accurate timeline of the different events of the battle.
Particularly Benteen’s arrival on Reno Hill, Captain Weir’s advance to Weir point, and Custer’s Battalion’s fight to the death. (I know that can’t be nailed down)
The fight took place before time zones were established in the USA. But the officers of the 7th had their watches set to Chicago time.
Judging from that fact, I’m guessing sunrise would have been 6:30 or 7:00 AM by their clocks, sunset closer to 10:30 PM?
That sound right?
7mm

On site, between GARY OWEN and CROW AGENCY in MT.

Go to the Little Bighorn Message Board. There are folks there that despite having studied the records and visited the battlefield have serious differences of opinion on every aspect of the battle.

Personally I look at Capt. Benteen as the hero of the battle and I have wondered why Gen. Custer didn't send him on the mission that Reno took. I don't believe Benteen would have broken and retreated as did Reno.

Custer didn't much care for Benteen but had to know he was a capable officer.

It was pretty obvious to everybody, even some outside the regiment, that Benteen hated Custer.
The regimental officers were divided in their loyalty to their commander. One group made up of Custer’s family and friends, another group who felt little or no loyalty to him at all.
If I had been Custer, I would have transferred Benteen, for both our sakes.
Major Reno is another that I might have tried to replace. Between the bottle and His brooding personality, he had few friends as it was.
Seniority be damned, I think probably Miles Keogh was arguably the most capable and trustworthy of all the officers. At least that’s the impression I have gotten from my reading. The fact that 3 subordinate sergeants died defending him says a lot.
As to the original topic of this thread, I know there are several other Custerphiles among our members. There are several with much higher knowledge than mine, and I thought someone could point me in the right direction.
7mm

If I remember correctly, Shrapnel here on the fire has studied the battlefield and events for a long time. You might want to reach out to him.

I have become interested recently in the Custer story and now the whole Indian campaign. Shrapnel furthered that interest. I sent him a PM and he graciously gave me his time on the topic. There is a lot to wade through.

I have wondered the same as you on why he didn't move Benteen and Reno. My guess is he was confident on his own ability and also thought Benteen and Reno would do their duty as professionals regardless of their animosity. I would think Custer would have seen that type of issue throughout is tenure and think it beneath him to show concern.

It is all in all a story for the ages.

We've visited the site numerous times and every time, we learn something new. GD

Would not have made a difference. They were out numbered & out gunned. Sitting Bull had all the cards.

It is a certain thing that Benteen advised Custer that it would be best to keep the whole outfit together considering the size of the trail they were on and was rebuffed. I have been there several times and I believe had Custer followed Benteen's advice and attacked the village with all 12 companies including the ammunition mules, on the flat ground that Reno made to initial attack on there is no way the Indians could have overcome the superior Springfield rifles. If you notice there were 7 companies on worse ground that held off the Indians for the next 36 hours until General Terry's approach caused the Indians to head for the hills.

As to why Custer did not get rid of Benteen, I suspect General Phil Sheridan wanted Benteen in the 7th Cavalry as a good influence on Custer. I think it notable that Sheridan found no fault with Benteen, Reno, or Terry. And President Grant blamed the whole fiasco on Custer.

I have a friend who served in Vietnam as a helicopter crew man/chief.

He was on a mission in Cambodia where the south Vietnamese were over run, they then broke rank and went into a full out every man for him self retreat.

He believes the Custer battlefield and what he saw in Cambodia was very similar.

That is how Captain Benteen described the Last Stand Hill area. "There was no line on the battle field; you can take a handful of corn and scatter it over the floor and make just such lines."

I'd suggest visiting in person...walking or even driving the geography of the battle, realizing how spread out everything was, and talking to the local historian/ranger is really worth it.

Also don't forget to stop at the trading post right at the entrance. There's some neat stuff there and a retired Indian who is very nice and will talk your head off about Indian US relations...he referred to everything as Indian, he is one, so I feel no guilt concerning political correctness.

I have been to the site 3 times and am amazed every time

Ask shrapnel.

Sheridan kept Benteen in place for precisely that reason. (Benteen's drinking doesn't pop up until quite a bit later in his career.) Also keep in mind that in the "old army" -- which is effectively what the US reverted to after the Civil War -- the officer corps was much smaller and it wasn't as easy to just send away subordinates or reassign officers. Men had relationships all the way up the chain of command and sometimes even into the White House as a result of their war service. So altering a fellow officer's career for political reasons could be dicey and often backfired.

This.

June 25 sunrise 5:21 MDT, sunset 9:02 MDT. A good 30-45 minutes of usable daylight on either side of those times in the summer. Hotter than the gate hinges of hell from about 10am until 7pm or so that time of year too.

Terry had offered the gatling guns and Custer had declined. Custer so informed his officers on the evening of his first day’s march. “He had declined the offer of the Gatling guns,” Captain Edward S. Godfrey recalled, “for the reason that they might hamper our movements or march at a critical moment, because of the inferior horses and of the difficult nature of the country.

That is nearly the longest day of the year in terms of daylight. It is commonly thought that time was kept according to Chicago time, as they didn’t have time zones in those days. Custer left the Crow’s Nest early in the morning which is about 15 miles from the Little Bighorn River.

Custer sent Benteen in his oblique before Custer and Reno headed down the South fork of Reno Creek to where it ran into the middle fork of Reno creek. Custer sent 3 companies with Benteen and then took the other 8 companies toward the Little Bighorn, leaving one other company with the pack train.

Although some claim the cavalry mounts were tired, I doubt they were as weary as some think, and Custer was probably able to get to the middle fork of Reno creek in a couple hours.

Once Custer and Reno converged on the middle fork, they were on either side of the South fork and to get 8 companies to cross a morass, it would take some time. More time passes and at the site of the Lone Teepee, Fred Gerard, a scout for Custer, saw some Indians on a bluff above and others that took off in the direction of the Little Bighorn.

Custer then sends Reno down the middle fork of Reno Creek to the Little Bighorn with the orders to strike the village from the south and Custer would support him with the whole outfit. I believe Reno thought Custer would come down the Little Bighorn behind him but Custer went in the same direction on the East side of the Little Bighorn behind the ridge that kept him out of sight of the Indian village.

More time passes and Reno is met with heavy resistance and suffers many casualties. He says “every man for himself” and heads for the high ground leaving wounded and no order in retreat.

Custer has continued down the Little Bighorn and near the center of the village has Yates, Calhoun and Keough deploy to engage the Indians and he takes a course to strike the village in anticipation of the scattering of the women and children to allow containment of the non-combatants which would lead to a swift victory.

This is now in the afternoon and Custer’s fight continues until 4:30 or so with no support as expected from Benteen, who finally reached Reno on Reno hill in a mess that needed support and order. Captain Weir made an advance toward the firing of Custer’s companies, hoping to give aid to Custer, but even finally with Reno and Benteen in support, Weir could not make their way North, and had to retreat back to Reno/Benteen Hill.

It is supposed that Custer was completely annihilated by this time which should be around 5:00. The battle at Reno/Benteen site, continued on into the evening and throughout the night the remaining 7th cavalry heard chanting and victory celebrations by the Indians. Fighting started again in the morning until mid afternoon the day of June 26, before the Indians packed up and left.

So much conjecture and myth surround this whole battle. Most of what is believed is from baseless criticism that survives due to so many unknown circumstances.

Did Custer think he would prevail?
Absolutely.

Did Custer and 220 men under his immediate command die?
Absolutely.

Could the 7th cavalry have prevailed on June 25?
Certainly, but it didn’t happen that way.

If Custer had survived, the story would be dramatically different with his account, where without it, he has become the goat and history has not been kind to him. He died a hero’s death in 1876 to a shocked nation in celebration of the 100th anniversary of their independence. 146 years later, his image is tarnished and only the survivors get to tell their part.

As was brought out earlier, Custer didn’t take Gatling guns with him, and had he done so, he would have most certainly survived. Not due to the Gatling guns, but due to how much slower he could have progressed and he would have arrived a day or two later and come upon the battlefield that Gibbon and Terry would have been involved.





We will be camped at the 7th camp campground on Reno Creek from June 24-26 if anyone is interested in meeting there. I will be spending time with Battlefield Rangers and surveying the area again, I never tire of the history there. We just spent a few days there last week looking at possible areas that could have been used to cache some of the articles taken from the dead soldiers. You don’t get the full effect of what happened if you don’t see the backside of the battlefield and where Custer and Reno came down the south fork of Reno Creek.

The location of the Lone Teepee is a significant part of the pre-battle organization of forces and where it is located. I have a very rare copy of the book “The Search For The Lone Teepee” which is an interesting insight to that historical location.

Interesting LBH Colt-


https://www.coltforum.com/threads/possible-custer-colt-in-colo-museum-interesting-info.380106/