Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Which Caliber AR-15 for Deer and Black Bear?

Choices are 350 legend, 458 Socom, 450 Bushmaster. Maybe 6.5 Grendal. Cost for ammo and reloading components are to be considered. I think the standard 223/5.56 bold can handle the 350 legend. Others require new bolt as well as barrel or complete upper. I have seen 350 Legend in stores recently and I've heard it is equivelant to a 30-30.

350 Legend is in the stores from what I've seen. As well as 300 blackout, but that one was not on the list. One of my buddies has a 350 Legend and he really likes it..

.223 and .556 work great for deer and big feral hogs here at the Ranch. With the proper bullet, of course. I prefer the 62 gr TSX bullet in mine in .556. As do the 300 BO, the 6.8 and 7.62X39, in my personal experience.
Next AR I build will be a 6.5 Grendel. Several friends of mine are killing deer and hogs with them with no problems reported. Got another friend that really likes his 450 Bushmaster upper for hogs.
Never killed a black bear, but I seriously doubt they are much harder to kill than a big ole feral hog boar.

Shot distance would be the deciding factor for me between the .350 and 6.5. Both are pretty cool little rounds for what they're designed for.

Yep. Distance is a factor.

A 6.8 with bonded bullet would likely work. 7.62x39 154gr SPs have likely killed a lot of bears… don’t know, but that’d probably be my pick over the legend….unless there’s some 180gr or heavier factory liad that runs over 2k fps like the 357 max or 35 rem will. 300HAMR would also work. The 350 ‘Almost’ would likely work, but there’s other choices that’d work at least as well. I’d have no issue shooting anything under 500# with a good 277 or bigger bullet….but that’s my cutoff where I’ve seen a difference on med game vs 6.5 and smaller bullets. Not that smaller won’t work…..just hasn’t seemed to work as good, unless I can only take CNS shots for culling or such. I’m sure others have far more and different anecdotal input.

There is also the 375 SOCOM. Tosses a 200gr bullet out at 2400fps. Unfortunately, the only suitable lead core jacketed bullet readily available is the Sierra Flat Point, which sheds velocity pretty quick.
There are some nice monolithic spitzers made by Maker Bullets from 175gr to 220gr, but they can't be driven as fast.

Tony

A 223 will do all you need with a 62 grain TTSX or 62 grain Bear Claw. I’ve liked dozens of pigs with them.

I’ve killed a lot of stuff with 62+ grain 224s. Still wouldn’t be my FIRST choice for deer/black bear or especially in the thick woods. Everything else mentioned is a better fit.

We been using 350 legend with 150’s in Ohio. Has worked very well on larger sizes deer. A sample of about 10 but no lost deer. A couple didn’t exit but left decent blood trails and all dropped within 45-50 yards. We aren’t unhappy at all.

I’d prefer 6arc but not legal up there

All fine choices if ammo availability is not considered. Of those I would go with 6.5 Grendel shooting 120gr Fusion / Gold Dot simply due to range with runner up being the 350 Legend.
Some on this forum have mentioned the 224 predator or arc are solid wildcat offerings and I see that position has a lot of merit; however,
one problem I see with those 224's (other than being a wildcat) is that they don't sell 90 grain fusion / gold dots as components (they have to be acquired from Valkyrie pull-downs).
The reason I like the fusions / gold dots is toughness / expansion and hunting-good BC.
Other than that those 224's look attractive in terms of performance (SD, velocity, energy etc).

just a standard 5.56x45 with a hand loaded 64grain Winchester power point kills deer and hogs pretty dead.

True. My experience has been the blood trails aren’t anything to write home about though, generally speaking. I still use the 223 for deer and pigs.

In an AR I’d go 350 if the purpose was deer and similar sized game. I like the Grendel a lot but prefer it in a bolt action.

I'm not a 22/6mm fan. No need to argue it, it's been done.

Given those choices, the 45s win over the 350.

Call the 350 a 35Rem. And it's "obsolete, under powered, range limited".
But since it's new, everyone wants one. It's as good as a 35, which is
what it is. Great old round for deer at "normal open sight range.

The Grendel intrigues me, even with my prejudices.

Or, I'd buy a good solid bullet and shoot one of the 5.56 ARs sitting around here.




Gotta ask why though?

Just want to hunt an AR? Don't own any other deer rifle?

We can't use them here, no semis for deer,only recently
have they approved semi 22s for small game.

If they were legal, I'd use one. At least for a deer or two.
Can't imagine preferring one to the Tikka Swede.

Just out of curiosity.......In what world is the .35 Remington 'under powered' for deer and bear?
I've killed both, easily, with a 7600 carbine and multiple deer with the legend.
I can say the same for the .450 postmaster and haven't noticed any difference.
The Legend will get the nod for blackbear this year, just because.

George

That's the world of " hunting " magazines,
the same world that says 30/30s make a 90degree
turn down into the dirt at the 100 yard mark.
I've heard all that and read it in national
magazines since I was a teenager.
I read an article a couple of years ago that
a 45/70 was a hundred yard gun no matter
what you did to it.

Oh well. . . .

Yep. Those old 64 gr WW Power Points worked well. As did the 60 gr Nosler Partition

Nowadays, I prefer the 62 gr TSX as my go to bullet in .556 for Deer and Hogs.

I picked up 200 of those TSX bullets recently. I still have 400 of the Winchester 64 grain PP to use up first. Hope to get around to trying the TSX out on a deer before Thanatos comes knocking.

.223/5.56 are death on deer and hogs out to about 250 yards. Never shot a bear with this caliber but doubt they are much more bullet proof.

That's it.
Along with a lot of hunters who read them. Or talk to those who do.
I'm right in what was once lever gun territory, along with pump gun central.
Both are fading.

I'm very intrigued by this cartridge and really hope it goes somewhere. It looks like it closes the gap between the intermediate AR rounds and the "thumper" rounds pretty well.

I remember hearing that, in magazines and in conversation with guys who typically had bigger rifles. That was before I learned more about shooting and how to come to my own conclusions.

I've shot deer at ranges closer to 200 yards, and one at 236 yards, with a simple ol' M94 Winchester with peep sights. Load is a 170 Hornady flat point started out at 2125 fps, nothing special.

To address the original question, I have two ARs I can use for deer and bear. a .458 SOCOM and 6.8 SPC. Virginia, in it's infinite wisdom, does not allow a .224" for big game.

450 Bushmaster, the old 245gr boat tail hp Barnes solid copper or newer 250gr Tipped MZ at 2300 fps, no black bear or buck deer ever lived i wouldn't punch out to 250 yards, my old Bushmaster wears a Minox ZA5 1.2-6 in QD rings.

How well do heart/lung shot hogs bleed with the Barnes bullet in .224??

They bleed out right up until they are dead. 😜😂😂
Sorry, I couldn’t resist. 😬

But seriously, I’ve never lost a pig I’ve shot with one. They rarely make it beyond 20 yards when hit in the heart, and maybe 40 yards with a lung shot.
The hogs tough skin / hide seems to seal off after small caliber wounds like from a .223 caliber projectile, in my experience.
Still, the 62 gr TSX bullet kills and anchors hogs very well in my experience.
Usually don’t get a pass through on bigger hogs with a .556 round unless I’m using the 62 grain Federal Green Tip military load. Which does not put hogs down near as quickly as the 62 gr TSX bullet.
And I’ve shot a ton of hogs with both bullets here at the Ranch over the years.
A heavy barreled Remington R-15 lives in my Ranch truck 24/7 just for hogs and coyotes.

The only rare times I’ve literally seen big hogs “bleed out quickly” Is when shooting them with my WW 94 Trapper 44 magnum, using my 250 gr LBT WFN hard cast bullet handloads at about 1600 FPS out of its 16” barrel.
I’ve seen a few hogs spurt blood in a stream like a gusher when my heart shot hit the aorta with that load. Those hogs were shot out of my bow blind at about 25 yards with that Winchester rifle.

Even when shooting hogs with my deer calibers, like my 264 Win Mag, or 7-08, I rarely see huge blood trails on hogs I’ve had to trail for up to 50 yards.
Unlike deer I’ve shot with those two rifles, which usually leave a blood trail a blind man could follow.
Hope this was helpful.

Yep.......and I built my .450 as a result of your build.
I did slap. 1.5-6x Meopta with a German 4 reticle on it. Seen about perfect for what I want it for.

You bet my friend Dogman George, that hog you hit was that little Barnes copper HP load, bet you didn't get that bullet back. LOL

I've built probably 20 or so AR's in different big bore calibers going back to the 1990's and out of all of them, the 375 SOCOM is really my favorite. I think the bullet situation is really holding it back from going main stream.
For most of my hunting, which is under 150 yards, I use a Howa Mini chambered in 375 SOCOM.

Tony

6.8 SPC for me, perfect out to 300 yds, have many bullets,brass and powder. Kills quickly with little recoil from a 16" tube.
Perfect short deer gun for me, 31" collapsed, accurate with very quick follow ups if needed.

I just don’t have a need for bigger than 6.8 or something like 300 HAMR or 7.62x39 in an AR15. If I did, the 357 AR Max would be a ‘want’, over the 350 ‘Almost’. I guess if I had bears or such and hunted them with an AR, one of the 473 case head cartridges might fill some niche. I just don’t see it, but good on ya if it’s your thing. I have no problem jumping to 308-based guns/cartridges, when they’re really what’s warranted.

How about an R-25 in 7-08.

Can't beat the 6.8mm!

i still haven't seen the reason to switch from a 77gr tmk either loaded hot or from Black hills

how i see it they are 450 yard guns. 6arc, 6.5 grendel, 6.8 spc aren't vastly improving on what can be done with a 77..

the 22 grendel and lvr with 75's is a hell of a platform in theory

but if im plus side of 450 i'm probably outpacing my hit ratio with a gasser anyways.

if i need more i grab a manual operated device and sling great bullets and have a lot simpler recoil impulse.

inside of 450 i put the TMK through the pump house and hooves go skywards real fast.

I'm a fan of he 6.8, and have setups in AR and bolt platforms. That said, while I'm sure that the 6.8spc would kill a bear, I prefer a larger hole.
That's nothing but personal preference........I grab my 45-70 vs an '06 despite knowing full well that the latter is more than adequate.

George

45-70 or '06 in an AR??

No Sir..........just a comparison for the 'bigger hole' comment.
The black bear upper of choice is the .450 Bushmaster, but it's a rare day that I don't carry my Marlin.

A 223 would probably work, but to be on the safe side, I'd probably use a 556, which is over twice as big.

If you like .35 calibers, check out the .358 Yeti from MDWS.

Hell...........450 Bushmaster shot a 460 lb dressed weight bear with a Cutting Edge Bullet 240 gr. bullet fell over dead.....went and developed the Cutting Edge Bullet 160 gr been using them for years for deer most just fall over dead with one put in the chest cavity.....

My son has a Yeti, almost a 358 Win in an AR15.

For deer, the regular .223/5.56 cartridge is fine and it also is fine for smaller pigs or head shots on larger ones. For body shots on big pigs, and especially for bear of any size, I would want something with a larger bullet, preferably at least 6.5 mm.

Be sure you shoot little pigs with your 556. Rio7

Whack them and stack them huh Rio? ha ha.. What bullet you running?

These little old pigs were all killed with junky old 40 and 55gr bullets, not monos either. Give me 77TMKs and I’ll rule the world. Everyone else can have my share of legends and bushmasters and whatever other cool name cartridges, I’ll keep slaying stuff with the 223.

BSA 1917, What bullet you running??

Usually 52-55 gr, sp or what ever?

I have some good 77 GR. but i'm saving them for something special. Rio7

Yes little pigs

TWR,
It appears we share the same taste in buttstocks.
I took mine out, but, what are those skinny, twist out tubes for ?

Storage?

Skittles?


I keep a small bottle of oil (machine gunners lube) in one and cr123 batteries in the other.

B5 makes the same stock but without the tubes called the bravo stock I think.

I figured, but I don't need batteries, and I keep a bottle in my grip.
Just wondered what you used yours for.

Pigs are pretty easy to kill. Nice looking rifle.

can't see why a guy would need more then 77gr tmk

I can't pick most pigs up by myself, they are to heavy, that's one of the reasons for the winch on the back of my Jeep. Rio7

We used them to carry extra batteries for the EOTechs and Aimpoints.

From what my buddy is doing with his, I'd say it's a .35 Rem in an AR15. That isn't a horrible thing by any means.

2600 with a 180 Speer Hot Core is quite potent!

His load for hunting is shooting them at 2540 for best accuracy.

Id agree with all of the above. Personally I chose the 6MM ARC in my state last year. Had to have a barrel spun up for a CZ 527 & re-barrel. Though with the Ops choices Id likely go with the 6.5 grendel. I have hunted for the previous 5 years prior to last year with 6.5 Grendel. Ammo can be had at very reasonable prices for the 6.5 Grendel. Availability has clouded the choices in recent years since current administration & Covid.


So my answer would be inside of 100 yards all can be good options.

Jump out to 200 yards I may prefer the 6.5 Grendel.

Believe it or not If we jump the distance out to 300 & perhaps 400 yards, Ill prefer a longer barreled bolt action 6mm ARC. My last years deer was a large bodied mature 4.5 year old buck taken at just over 250 yards. One shot with the 6mm ARC through the high shoulder passed right through & turned out his lights like in an instant following touching the trigger. Shot placement was key here.