Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats .280 Ackley Improved,,your thoughts please….

try telling that to the fellas that shoot the KING of 2 MILE competition

Why not use ballistically superior projectiles that fit into your platform at mag length?

I have a 280 AI on a 700 blue printed action - maybe I’ll wring it out this summer. I bought it after I read a write up by MD.
I have 280’s and 7mm RM’s, so I didn’t really need a 290AI but I was thinking it would make an excellent long range coyote rifle. The barrel is varmint weight and 26” long. I have it in a nice synthetic stock and a good scope on it. Too many projects though.

Ladies,

Your Fhuqktardation,is simply MAGFNIFICENT in it's grandeur...you "lucky" kchunts. Hint. Congratulations?!?

JBM is handy for you Window Licking Droolers,because it will denote specific projectiles,some of which populate as G1 drag functions,others as G7. I get it,that your version of "Reloading" is putting colored water in your SuperSoakers and that your Amazing STUPIDITY,is no "act". You'd do well to simply take notes and apply same. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

The 250 Skinner,as per JBM's populated particulars(G7). Hint.



In extrapolation to Lapooey's cited G1 drag function of same,which precludes the ability to change JBM's populated version,retaining the projectile's nomenclature. Please note the "differences" ladies. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!




I'd submit that a 264 Kreed with a 140 Berger,is operating at 80% of potential,assuming a tailwind. If one gets giddy at replicating Kreed potential,via shift to a long action and adding 15-20grs of propellant to the equation,that is just fhuqking FUNNY. Hint.

It's entertaininger than fhuqk,that there's always gonna be Drooling Brokedicks in the back of the class,eating crayons and licking windows. Fortunately for them,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even they can "afford" to "contribute",with their "what if" GooglFu and riveting Retardation. Some folks simply shoot and they "get" to read about it,which must be VERY "rewarding",for them of the ilk. Hint.

Pardon a 264 Kreed with a .697 G1 BC at 2700fps,for melting sooooooooo many Snowflakes. Pardon reality and wares that exist. Hint.

Bless your poor poor(literally) hearts,for trying though.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.....................

They shooting game at 2 MILES with a good hit probability?


BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

You Amazingly STUPID Fhuqks are on a roll...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Pardon wares that exist,as you Drootards flounder in your Fhuqktardation. Hint.



Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Not that you didn't have to steal a pic for "your" avatar. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...................

There is no question that high BC bullets drift less and drop less than those with a lower BC and, if you are shooting at long range, a big difference in BC can make a big difference in wind drift and drop. It can make a much greater difference than more velocity, for instance.
When I was shooting a lot of "F" class competition, I mostly shot a 6.5 with 142 Sierras or 139 Scenars and was satisfied with the performance of them. When I dropped a point, it was usually because I missed a change and it usually wasn't a case where a little better BC would have helped.
I shot a 6,5x55 because I felt that anything over 2700 fps to start was plenty. I also shoot 308's with 155 Scenars and, trust me, there is a noticeable difference between what a 155 30 cal at 2900 does compared to the 139 at 2750 and one is better off sticking with one or the other so as to not make too many mistakes in wind compensation.
When it comes to hunting, it's a little different deal. In the picture shown by Beretz, he hints that extra BC can help if there is a bull elk on the far hillside. In my mind, what can help even more is the ability to anticipate where that bull is going to be by the time you work your way over to intercept him. Different strokes. This difference in philosophy means I can feel just fine with 140 Noslers in the 6.5 because, chances are, I'll be taking the shot at less than 200 yards or, as usually happens, I won't be taking it at all;). A few inches of wind drift at long range is meaningless in this context.
All of this has little to do with the 280AI and more to do with what one is trying to accomplish. If the goal is to achieve the best long range performance you can, the 280AI will probably work fairly well to drive high BC bullets at decent velocities. I built a rifle like this in about 1980 and it worked quite well. It would drive 168 Sierras (which was the chosen bullet at the time) to about 2950fps. Other cartridges would accomplish much the same thing but the 280AI is popular today so it's not a bad choice.
If one just wants to build a great mountain rifle which will be good to carry and useful on big game, using bullets from 140 to 175 grains, the 280 AI (or the standard 280) is just fine. So is the 7mm Mag. GD

dumbdog,

Your inabilities and Drooling Dumbfhuqktitude are simply fhuqking HILARIOUS...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

I enjoy how very "REAL!" your Imagination and Pretend are,to you. That you've never even seen a .697 BC .264" projectile,only adds to the HILARITY. Hint.

Now you can say you've "seen" one,which makes this a very BIG Day for you. Pardon wares that exist,as you GoogleFu a FIRST fhuqking clue. Hint.



Fortunately for you,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even you can "afford" to "contribute". Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...................

Dip Stick,
Not that it really matters but the Hornady 143's on the bench must be close. The Noslers are only .658 but, like I said, it doesn't really matter. Any 136 to 144 grain 6.5 isn't going to suck too badly. If a .600 bullet shoots 1/2 moa and a .690 shoots 3/4, I'll use the .600 and deal with the wind. My dies produce a bullet much like the Hornady.
I'll confess to not competing as much as I used to; I have to drive too far. I still shoot a little though and have two ranges on my property.
I agree with you that bullets matter more than headstamps but just how they matter is the question. BC isn't always everything. You take care. GD

DumbDog,

I get it,besides being a CLUELESS Fhuqk you are also Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Bless your heart,for Lying,Crying and Whining.

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

You're on the wrong track, here. First, energy down-range is about at the bottom of the list of reasons why high BC helps. Second, missing your target is all about errors and error stack. BC is not a placebo for marksmanship, unless of course you define marksmanship as using the lowest shooting technology possible, but rather high BC aids marksmanship because it reduces uncertainties, and consequently reduces errors (where error here is the difference between your guessed/intended value and the true value).

A couple of years ago I built a computational model that helps visualize the errors involved in external ballistics, similar to Litz' WEZ software. It simulates a number of shots taken in identical conditions, but where there is some uncertainty in the value of various parameters. This helps illustrate the benefit to higher BC.

In the following 1000-shot simulations the target width is 17.7", and I've assumed a shooter/rifle capable of keeping all shots within 1 MOA from POA, full-value wind speed (including gusts) of 12+/-7 mph, distance of 400+/-1 m, velocity ES of 20 fps, RH of 50%, temp of 46 F, and absolute pressure of 26 HgIn. The only difference between the two is the bullet and the MV. You can see that BC can make a big difference, even at 400 meters, even with the lower-BC bullet having a MV advantage.

.277 150 PT at 2950 fps:



.264 147 ELD at 2700 fps:

It all depends on the bullets chosen. If comparing a high-BC bullet in the 6.5 and a low-BC bullet in the .280AI, the 6.5 will be a shorter, lighter rifle, burn less powder, have less recoil and muzzle blast, and be at least as likely to arrive at the POA (if not more-so).

For comparison:

.284" 160 NP at 2900 fps

And this is my point.

Academics.

In a 20-knot gust environment?

I'm not shooting at game at 400 yards.

Why?

Because with all your academic high-technology... you don't control the wind.

How does your High BC wonder-bullet respond when you took the shot, and it was +/- 20 when you pulled the trigger?


A marksman and ethical hunter would know better.

... and get closer.


BC - is a placebo for marksmanship.




GR

Tag

You failed to see the point, even when it was displayed in front of your eyes.

The simulated wind was 12 +/- 7 mph, not +/- 20 knots. And even in that wind, with the gusts, in this particular example the 6.5 kept all shots within about 12", or approximately the vital zone of a BG animal, while the .270 did not.

Great posts Jordan, and excellent work. You may be wasting your time with some of the audience, but your methods and data presentation are crystal clear.

For comparison. 7mm 180 ELD at 3000 fps:

Physics matters. Whether one likes it, or not. Nice graphs.

GaranDismal,

When your projectile selection is influenced 1/3 as much as another,a 10mph influx,is the same as a 30mph....you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Not that I don't enjoy you doing your BEST,with what incredibly little you "have" to "work" with. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!................

Indeed.

The contrast only gets more stark as the distance increases. 500 meters: