24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,177
J
JeffG Offline OP
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,177
I'm not sure if this was already caught here by the Collectors , but..

These bedding posts are being created by another esteemed Campfire member, who has some considerable depth of experience in stock bedding and Accurate Shooting!

Originally Posted by Al_Nyhus
Acraglas and Acraglas Gel both have their places.

For example, on a Savage 99 recently, I used a combination of ProBed and Acraglas Gel in different areas.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Originally Posted by Al_Nyhus
Originally Posted by Sakoluvr
I have used Acraglas but I am always looking to up my technique. Can you guys tell me the negative atributes of Acraglass? I have always thought Brownells had good products.

Acraglas and Acraglas Gel both have their places.

For example, on a Savage 99 recently, I used a combination of ProBed and Acraglas Gel in different areas.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by JeffG; 06/27/22.

"...One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All"

JeffG
BP-B2

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 42,237
C
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
C
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 42,237
Somebody is trying to turn 99s into a benchrest rifle?


The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”.
All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered.
Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
Watch All The Savage 99 Models : https://youtu.be/pv2kGz7uac0
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 700
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 700
Jeff,

I communicated with this guy on this process. It is what I am going to go with on my two 450 Bushmaster 99's as the recoil is more than I think the weird Savage 99 stock setup is designed to handle. I see this as a permanent solution to stock cracks.

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,921
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,921
Someone please explain what the process is. This is over my head.


Savage...never say "never".
Rick...

Join the NRA...together we stand, divided we fall!


Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,355
G
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
G
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,355
Correct me if I'm wrong, Jeff, but the way I see it a hole is bored back into the wood and the device is snugly fitted and bedded in with epoxy. Provides a solid bearing for the lower tang to butt against, preventing the lower tang from pounding itself into the wood. The real trick is in guaranteeing perfect conformity to the radius on the lower tang, both vertically and horizontally.

The smart stockmaker will still take care to properly bed the upper tang and provide clearance to circumvent the wedge effect of that part on the wood too.

An interesting concept, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassles. Simply bedding the back of the lower tang with sufficient epoxy to provide firm complete coverage/bearing surface for the tang is all you really need. The one thing to avoid is a high spot in that area that creates a pinch point that concentrates recoil energy and more importantly, IMO, excessive screw tightening energy, which can/will initiate a wood split. A complete 100% perfectly formed bed for the back end of the lower tang obviates that. The whole idea with bedding any kind of gun is to create a perfect fit in the stock to absolutely allay any movement whatsoever. Theoretically a perfect inletting job is sufficient, but pretty much impossible to attain.

Will a .450 Bushmaster generate more recoil energy than say a .308 or .358 or .284? Heavier bullet sure, but slower velocity, right? Betcha the forces acting on the wood aren't materially different. Newton's law of motion: for every action there is an equal but opposite re-action. I still say the biggest generator of tang cracks is overly zealous tightening of the stock bolt.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
IC-A B3

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,177
J
JeffG Offline OP
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,177
I completely agree with Gary's more detailed assessment of this idea;

1st - accurately drilling the butt stock for this over-size post will be the biggest challenge, and by far the best opportunity of wrecking the stock beyond use, DONT DO THIS on your only available stock,
2nd - careful inletting of all the contact surfaces (..which is consistently GREAT on all the factory stocks I've seen, across 100 years of production!) is the key to the long-term health of the butt stock wood, and our consistent shooting precision
3rd- I have found it beyond my patience to detail any stock inletting further than about 75% of the theoretical "perfect", (..and my "perfect" is probably only about 50% of Gary's "acceptable"!), so..,
4th - epoxy bedding the lower tang heal, both vertically and horizontally takes care of my remaining 20%, (..95% is pretty darn good for my 99 ability!).


I put cellophane tape on the metal as my release agent, and just snug up the stock bolt to seat the wet epoxy, then remove the tape for final fit.

[Linked Image] [Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


[Linked Image]

Last edited by JeffG; 06/28/22.

"...One Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All"

JeffG
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,355
G
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
G
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,355
Another area of concern is rotational and vertical torquing of the butt stock on a two-piece stock system. What we're discussing solves the biggest concern - lineal tightness/firmness of the system - but ignores the other directions a stock can move in. Admittedly of far less concern, but a concern nonetheless and kind of why I included the top tang's inletting in my above diatribe. To that end, including that little space above the heel of the lower tang (as Jeff did in the above pic) in the "tight fit" protocols counts for a lot in that regard.

Any movement in a butt stock of a two piece stock system is detrimental to accuracy, no matter how minute. In that millisecond during which the explosion takes place in the chamber and the bullet starts moving through the barrel and the whole works is squirming/flexing/whipping about (and your heart's beating, to add yet another factor) a lot of weird stuff happens to send the bullet off course. Just .001" of deflection at the firing point (ground zero) caused by any number of factors in the gun (and you) will throw the bullet impact at 100 yards off by almost .4". Think about that, and then marvel at how we manage to make small groups/scores regardless.**

The Savage wrist, two tangs on the receiver, and the need to keep the whole thing svelte must have been a real hair puller for the guy(s) who developed it. For the era of its inception it was a marvelous end result, world's ahead of the then standard practice of running screws vertically through the tangs to clamp the butt stock in place.

** Addendum: it boils down to shot-to-shot consistency in the system which includes the gun and it's ammunition, the shooter and his ability to achieve exactness in aim/hold/squeeze, and the grip on the gun (or its positioning on the sand bags). It's all about vibrations, and the shot-to-shot consistency of them.

Last edited by gnoahhh; 06/29/22.

"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 51,545
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 51,545
I had a 99 stock split sitting in the safe.

So much for all the theories.


_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack

LOL
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,787
T
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
T
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,787
said it before and will say it again, wood selection is key, study the grain on ones that have split, and compare others, 1/4 would eliminate a large percentage., my .02, AND over tightening the bolt like Gary said, learned that many years ago with my first sxs, @ 14 I thought I knew it all, gunsmith showed the right way.

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,355
G
Campfire Kahuna
Offline
Campfire Kahuna
G
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,355
Originally Posted by Fireball2
I had a 99 stock split sitting in the safe.

So much for all the theories.

Then somebody overtightened the stock bolt and the wood sat there under compression until it finally gave.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
IC-B B4

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 700
F
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
F
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 700
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Originally Posted by Fireball2
I had a 99 stock split sitting in the safe.

So much for all the theories.

Then somebody overtightened the stock bolt and the wood sat there under compression until it finally gave.

And if the rifle would have had the pillar bedding as pictured above, it would not have happened at all.

From the resident 24-hour campfire gunsmith that does this mod: "Replacing the factory bolt (where a washer bears against a 'shelf' in the butt stock) with a substantial aluminum pillar and cap screw...and bedding the rear of the action against the pillar...is a very worthwhile modification to these guns. The solid pillar/bedding at the back eliminates the beating that the upper tang gives the stock, which leads to the cracking that's so common on these guns. On this one, I gave it .015 of clearance around the periphery of the tang.

With some additional work on the fore end, pillar bedding turned this 250-3000 'stringer' into a 'shooter' with nice round groups and eliminated the 1st round flyer that went close to 2" out."

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,840
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,840
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Originally Posted by Fireball2
I had a 99 stock split sitting in the safe.

So much for all the theories.

Then somebody over tightened the stock bolt and the wood sat there under compression until it finally gave.

Which is yet another reason for the aluminum pillar.

Additionally, the 'shelf' that the original stock bolt washer sits on and bears against gives very little support.

Good shootin' -Al


Forbidden Zoner

Moderated by  Rick99, RickBin, SYSOP 

Link Copied to Clipboard
CTV-TRX
Who's Online Now
122 members (abbydog, 1OntarioJim, 35, adeel1981, 405joe, 12 invisible), 900 guests, and 787 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3-22

UDG-IP









Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2022 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.045s Queries: 14 (0.002s) Memory: 0.8845 MB (Peak: 1.0135 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2022-08-14 10:19:15 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS