24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
Have any of you guys raised a (saleable) pup to the "Started" level? Seems like it's around 10 mo to 1 year +/_ . What was that journey like? Were there "bonding" issues that had to be addressed? (Un-bonding from you then re-bonding with a new owner?)

Anybody bought a <10 week old pup, then sent it off to get "Started?"

Same questions for "Finished" field trained dogs... 18 mo - 2 years I guess? Before / After experiences? Bonding issues?

I know lots of guys send their dogs off to Finish, what is that experience like? How does the dog handle it as far as adjusting to the trainer kennel vs. home and doggie bed? Etc.

Thinking about pushing into that world, and possibly field trialing some of my pups, just wanted to hear some experiences...


- - Steve
Rainshadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
www.rain-shadow.com

Mountain Lion Calling products, instruction, & stories!

Labrador Retrievers - https://rainshadowlabradors.com
BP-B2

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,517
Mine went to school at 7 months old.
I visit about once a week.
He's already forgot about me. It was hard the 1st time he turned from to go to the trainer on his own.
I'm hoping once he comes home in October for hunting season, he'll adjust back ? Should, as I'll be his center of attention.
Now at 9 months old, with the trainer, and over 90 pounds.
[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,112
W
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,112
Any bonding issues are the fault of the owner. Dogs bond with whomever spends the time with the dog, they will bond with more than one individual or even more than one person at a time. Just like people, dogs can have a number of "best friends" through their lives. This idea of a dog bonding with one individual to the exclusion of all others is mostly a literary myth. Look at those dogs used for military/police work or those as service dogs. These dogs may spend the first couple of years in training before meeting their final owners and I don't think anyone can honestly say the dogs do not form a bond with the owners. There is the rare dog/owner pairing that doesn't work out but the dog generally finds a place with a different owner whether as a service dog or regular pet.

I've had dogs that have spent anywhere from 7 months to 3.5 years with another person before they became permanent fixtures around my house. None, even the 3.5 year old had any issues bonding with me. They have all retained a bond with previous owners/handlers for a period of time afterwards. It is said wolves will remember previous pack members up to 5 years after separation so I would expect domestic dogs to be little different.

The same can be said of those dogs I had for varying periods of time before the dogs found/returned home. Those dogs bonded with the previous/new owners just fine though remembered me afterwards too. I had to take a stepson's K9 the first time he went on vacation as his employer had not thought of what to do in this situation. The dog and I got along prior to this but after the week, that dog would do anything I asked of it. I think I miss that dog as much as my stepson.

So, don't worry about any bonding issues with a new dog or a current dog that spends time with someone else. There may be some time needed to make the transition but it won't be long if you spend time with the dog. The general rule is to keep the dog on a leash at first and start from the beginning with obedience. Work up from there in small steps in controlled areas until it minds appropriately then take it to a less controlled space as the dog understands and obeys. Depending on how often you work with the dog, the quality of the work, and the intelligence or desire to please in the dog, it can take a very short time to develop a bond.

Don't worry about any bonding issue, the problem is in your head. If there is any problems they are most likely to be due to the new owner and some training education of the owner would be necessary.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,730
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,730
HuntIng Springers and Cockers….Have sent 3 away for a month to a friend who trains to have them exposed to Birds. Everyone remembered me and went over the top in excitement when I went to pick them up. Opened the truck, they jumped in and it was like “Where have you been? Let’s go!!!!”

Last edited by battue; 06/30/22.

laissez les bons temps rouler
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 17
O
New Member
Offline
New Member
O
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 17
I have been on both sides. Got a started dog from a breeder. Dog was great but was still bonded to breeder which caused difficulties. Also as I noticed quirks that could be traced back to the first 6 months. Now I have a puppy that will being going to training at 6 months, he is 5 months. I think the bonding, almost full time job of socialization and "Kindergarten gun dog" will produce a better dog for me.

IC B2

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
Beautiful Pup, Splatter! Hope he finishes out the best ever!

I hear what you're saying, wood, most people have experienced an adopted/rehomed situation, and had some degree of bonding. What I'm concerned about it the transition of position, the loyalty and respect for commands given. Any dog can acclimate to any home environment, but does the loyalty diminish? (I think it obviously does compared to an owner raised puppy.) We've all heard those "shelter dog" stories that "didn't work out." (I agree that's largely the ownership, but can that be completely overcome?)

Battu, that's a great result. And I think it's a really good idea! I have done that with discipline problem dogs that have been brought to me, and they bonded back really quickly like that. (But then, they only obeyed me sharply in the future. Yes, problem was the owner who didn't take authority, but it made me question the idea.) A month isn't the first ten months, or two years... That's my question... If I put that dog up for sale then, am I selling someone "MY" dog? How do I avoid that?

OldLeo, I'm curious how that will differ from the first one. What 'quirks' are you speaking of? (My idea is to start training as soon as their eyes open. I think the first 10 weeks of feral behavior is a really significant set-back to the dog's development. They obey at 4 weeks. I've proven it.)


- - Steve
Rainshadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
www.rain-shadow.com

Mountain Lion Calling products, instruction, & stories!

Labrador Retrievers - https://rainshadowlabradors.com
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 17
O
New Member
Offline
New Member
O
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 17
Quirks were poor water confidence. Obviously not properly introduced. Habit of laying down versus a sit on a whistle when under pressure. By pressure I mean difficult blind drills. Not an ecollar dog. was scared of buckets. I am with you on introducing them to everything you can before the fear period. Never happened with this dog.


I have followed a program with the new pup. At one point we volunteered for a student day at a local university. He met 64 different college kids in 3 hours. This dog has had a proper water intro and has great confidence in water with decoys, retrieves, just swimming for fun.

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
Originally Posted by OldLeo
Quirks were poor water confidence. Obviously not properly introduced. Habit of laying down versus a sit on a whistle when under pressure. By pressure I mean difficult blind drills. Not an ecollar dog. was scared of buckets. I am with you on introducing them to everything you can before the fear period. Never happened with this dog.


I have followed a program with the new pup. At one point we volunteered for a student day at a local university. He met 64 different college kids in 3 hours. This dog has had a proper water intro and has great confidence in water with decoys, retrieves, just swimming for fun.


Nice, it sounds like he's having a great puppyhood with you. Should be really ready to go get professional work. As was mentioned, time with you is likely going to pay back as nicely as the training and conditioning he's getting in the process IMHO.


- - Steve
Rainshadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
www.rain-shadow.com

Mountain Lion Calling products, instruction, & stories!

Labrador Retrievers - https://rainshadowlabradors.com
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,730
B
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
B
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 20,730
Originally Posted by rainshadow1
A month isn't the first ten months, or two years... That's my question... If I put that dog up for sale then, am I selling someone "MY" dog? How do I avoid that?

Happens all the time with trial Dogs that don't make it, or get sold to another handler.....or bought by a hunter who doesn't want to start with a Pup. Wither the Dog is happy and enthusiastic will be mostly determined by those who take them in. Seen it work out for the good and bad. Some want a Dog and do their best to make them both happy. Some don't, and only look at what the Dog can give them. I've seen 4-5 year old Dogs move to another home and be happier and better treated than where they came from. And it can go the opposite also. You as the seller have the responsibility to make it a fair trade for the Dog.

Get into the FT game with multiple Dogs and you will also be getting into the Dog trading/selling game. You will cross paths with many great Dog people....and some who shouldn't be allowed to own a Dog.

Last edited by battue; 06/30/22.

laissez les bons temps rouler
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,112
W
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
W
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,112
It's as Battue stated above, a matter of the owner making the effort to integrate the dog into your life. If you leave it up to the dog, you are going to be disappointed and it will be no fault of the dog's. As I pointed out earlier, police and military K9s spend their first year or more with someone other than their handler. In 8 weeks the dog and new handler are a team that will work together and the dog will willingly do things much more hazardous and risky than the typical hunting dog will be asked to do.

The only Pointer I've had so far was a 3.5 year old field trial washout. It took me about a month of work to get him to the point I felt confident he would obey me in any circumstance. I don't think the dog would have ever reached the point he would not have obeyed the original handler but I doubt he would have put him over me after a couple of years.

If the first handler did their job correctly, it would make him much like a parent and at what point in your life do you start ignoring your parents? It may reach a point you do not instantly obey every command over say, your spouse but you will listen.

Worry over "bonding" is a non-issue. Worry over it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. Working and playing together will cement any bond that occurs. If a bond does not happen, there is something very wrong with either the dog or the owner or both.

IC B3

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 799
battu, that's a great perspective. Thank you. I've seen that in my distant past (much to my chagrin, it was the show ring with english bulldogs... I did not like that world.) I hope the FT world is a little more down to home than that was, but I can imagine the politics and snobbery in any situation like that.

woodmaster, I get your thoughts about bonding now. You're right. I am concerned about how the dog does after it leaves me, but I've seen happy kennel dogs who only train and hunt, so I can't be as concerned about the home life as with a pup.

I've got 7 kids still in the house, so it might not come to be right away... then again, I might train a trainer "in house" so you never know!


- - Steve
Rainshadow Game Calls & Custom Knives
www.rain-shadow.com

Mountain Lion Calling products, instruction, & stories!

Labrador Retrievers - https://rainshadowlabradors.com
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 17
O
New Member
Offline
New Member
O
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 17
Thanks Rainshadow.

I think I also started with great breeding. Picked the litter and had the breeder/trainer help pick the pup.

Imperial Retrievers from Illinois. Petty x Mattye breeding. Trained with breeder and have watched both dam/sire. Judged some of the offspring in HRC. I think I stacked the odds in my favor.


Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
688 members (1beaver_shooter, 10gaugemag, 007FJ, 160user, 10Glocks, 06hunter59, 70 invisible), 2,776 guests, and 1,311 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,632
Posts18,398,846
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.137s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8534 MB (Peak: 0.9519 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 16:33:27 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS