Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Identifying my JP Sauer and Sohn Commercial(?) Mauser and what to do with it…

1st time posting here, or anywhere for that matter. I recently picked up what looks to be a ca 1912 JP sauer and sohn Mauser commercial sporter in 8x57 (unsure on chambering)from a gun show(booth of a local gunsmith). (J(i) or S) bore is TBD, waiting for my smith (a different one than the seller) to slug/cast the barrel/chamber. So in the mean time I’m posting to try to get a better handle on what I’ve got, it’s value, and ideas on what to do with it. Figuring out how to post pictures on here, but for the moment I’ll list a description and the markings I’ve found.

Action appears to be a large ring Mauser(caveat: just started learning about mausers last week). Serial # on right side of the front ring on receiver and underside of barrel, 193xxx. Left side has 2,5gG.B.P. over St.m.G. Underside of receiver has serial #543xx. Matching(double stamped with last three and last two of both serial #s) on all receiver parts. A very nice double set trigger. Guessing 7lb and 1 -1/2lb. Lever floor plate release. Bolt has different number, extractor claw has another number. Stock appears to be a military stock (not original sporter stock) that’s been sporterized, steel butt plate matches bolt number. No tenon hole in forend, but barrel channel has been inletted for the tenon mortise. Barrel is half octagon round, fully ribbed, ramped front sight (no hood) and the front face is stamped “sxs”. Rib has crosshatch/knurling, with “JP SAUER AND SOHN, SUHL”. Barrel base has “GUSS STAHL KRUPP ESSEN”. Barrel and receiver have large crown next to crown over N. Barrel also stamped clearly “7.8 mm”. Also has JP sauer “wild man”.
Manlicher (?) butterknife style bolt handle. Two single claw scope mounts - one on rear bridge, one in dovetail on barrel with a caming lever. Curious of mfr and if rings exist for this mounting system. express sights, one standing with folding leaf.

Inferring from other posts, both serial numbers point to 1912, as best I can tell? Original stock and bolt were lost, combined with bolt and stock of a Gew98 or K98, maybe, but it’s a GI bring back because there’s no import mark for country of origin?

Any idea on value? I paid 600$ for it.

I have ~1k rounds of 8x57, which most if not all, is S(I’m assuming this). Most of it is yugo M75 sniper surplus. I bought this rifle to shoot through that ammo. If this rifle turns out to be .318”, i can’t shoot the modern surplus ammo out of it right? I told the seller I had S ammo, and he swore I would be able to shoot it in this rifle.

My problem is now I’m in love with sporter commercial mausers with ribbed half octagon barrels, DSTs, and lever floor plates. Most seem to go for 2k$+

Thanks in advance for the chance to get more information on this!

Edited: added links below to photo gallery - not sure if this is the right way to link the image gallery to this thread, but figured I’d try it.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...es/17351653/sappsquatch-jp-sauer-sporter

Sappsquatch;
Top of the morning from just north of the medicine line, welcome to the forum.

Regarding your Mauser, there's a sub forum here where there's some really sharp folks who know more about Mausers than I do hang out.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/forums/81/1/mausers-and-military-rifles

If you want to learn about them, I'd suggest this book as a foundation. Here's a used soft cover which won't break the bank and isn't Amazon.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31120184370&searchurl=sortby%3D17%26tn%3Dmauser%2Brifles&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-image3

If you can take some photos and post them, it's much easier for a few of us to give you a better guess at what we're talking about. There's a forum photo primer here.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...tructions-for-secure-images#Post12122182

Edit to add; Gunwriter John Barsness checks in here and if I'm not wrong has had a gunsmith work up a way to do something with some claw mounts. Unless I'm remembering it all wrong, which might well be because it's still early here.

Hope that all made sense and was useful.

We'll see if we can figure it all out, but all the best regardless.

Dwayne

Thanks for the quick reply and warm welcome. I’ve explored gun and hunting forums for many years, but never posted before, so I appreciate the help in getting squared away.

I created a gallery thread with the photos, and copied a link in the OP.

Would you recommend moving this thread to the Mauser sub forum? Am I able to do that or do I have to ask the Admin to do it?

The scope mounts are very ornate and look to be of the same period. The front base is marked “D186” on the top. I have a suspicion that they may have been put on the rifle when 1st built or by the retailer - I found an RIA auction listing with photos of a JP sauer that is 7 units earlier than mine, with what look to be the same mounts, same location - problem is, there’s only the side profile picture in the auction listing, and I don’t know if there’s a way to pull the thread on that specific listing.

The photos I’ve posted hopefully will help a lot.

Answering a question not yet asked, but I expect will be forthcoming - I do have reloading equipment but haven’t dove in yet. The 8x57 ammo I ‘inherited’ has a set of dies and maybe 100 pieces of boxer primed brass.

Point being, I’d prefer that it be the larger bore to safely shoot the surplus, and reload for hunting loads in smaller quantities. The chamber cast/ barrel slug will answer that question - but I suspect it will be a .318 bore based on the evidence. If this is the case then I’m less excited about having to hand load for the smaller bore while the stockpile in my closet sits idle.

Sappsquatch;
Morning again, you're most welcome and yes for sure the pictures help.

If it was me I'd just throw up your second thread on the subject down in the Mauser section. You can always say one of the crazy Canucks suggested it if anyone asks, right?

The proof marks looked to me like they were correct, but I didn't double check in the Mauser book, just looked quick on the ether webs.

Seriously though the book is a really fine place to start your Mauser education. Fine foundation or it was for me all those decades back.

It's interesting in that the stock does appear to be somewhat less ornate than one would expect based on the rest of the rifle, so who knows if some German gunsmith reworked a broken stocked sporter as a "cigarette rifle" or what exactly took place there.

For sure you're doing the right thing getting a chamber cast and finding out what the bore actually is before shooting it. One never knows who had their hands in what during the past century right?

A shooting buddy just started fooling with a couple new Husky rifles, one in 8x57 and the other a 9.3x62. While it's early days, we chronographed a few factory loads with the 8x57, I want to say either Norma or PPU and I can see why it's a well thought of and very capable round.

Again welcome and good luck with a fun project.

Dwayne

I’ve been looking at information to Identify the stock. It looks like the stock, butt plate, and bolt are all matching (exception on extractor claw), serial number 5124. To me it looks like an early Gewehr 98 stock, that’s been sporterized. The butt plate has a stylized M stamped above the serial #. There are two plugged holes on the underside, behind the rounded grip, that suggest the sling mount bracket holes. The cap in the right side of the stock with spanner holes, doesn’t have the bolt/firing pin takedown hole that is on the gewehr 98m’s and Kar98’s. No finger grooves on the forend.

I’m considering swinging by my smith so I can take the stock out and look at it. I remember some writing inside the barrel in letting, but don’t have a picture.

Any ideas on how to ID the mfr of the stock, bolt and buttplate? I’m assuming German for now, but like you said, they could have been separate rifles for a long time before being married. I assume if we know the mfr, the serial would give us a date for the stock and bolt.

The main thing I’ll have to decide is, if it’s the J bore- what do I do with it. Can the rifling be cut deeper to match the S bore specs? It would have to chase the existing rifling and open the land diameter a bit too, I suppose.

Alternatively, I could have the barrel rechambered to something bigger?

Sorry not to post on this before, but I'm the guy Dwayne mentioned as a gun writer--and am a Mauser enthusiast.

It's often hard to run down dates on all the parts of what is obviously a "parts gun." But have other suggestions:

1) I do know a couple of gunsmiths who can make mounts for your rifle, but it ain't cheap. The solution I've used for years now was first used by an older gunsmith (and good friend) on an unknown-make German over-under combo gun my wife bought at a gun show. It had claw bases but no scope. His solution for such problems was to machine steel Talley bases to fit the claw bases--and then steel Talley rings could be used to mount any scope we wanted.

Years later I bought a Sauer drilling in 16x16/6.5x57R, with a 4x Hensoldt scope, with the typical very heavy German "night" reticle. I wanted to mount a scope with a better reticle for American hunting. I showed the older gunsmith's solution system to local, excellent gunsmith John McLaughlin, and (he's a member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild), and he did the same thing for my drilling--which worked excellently with a 1-4x20 Leupold variable. I don't know how much John charges now, but his website is mclaughlinmetalworks.com. But like many gunsmiths these days he's kinda backed up....

2) Obviously handloading will be held up until your gunsmith determines the diameter of the bore. (This is actually the groove diameter, as the bore diameter for both the J and S bores is the same.) If its .318", it's also possible to size many lead-cored bullets down to .318. Can help on that too.

Nice old rifle! Would have been very tempted to buy it....

John Barsness

John;
Good afternoon, almost evening in your part of Montana, I hope you and Eileen are well and the day behaved for you both.

Thanks for confirming my memory on the claw mounts.

I was reasonably certain it was you who had mentioned it, but more and more I'm finding it's best if I don't get too adamant with what I think I remember...

Perhaps I need a reboot or some new hardware installed. I don't feel like more ram would work, but I do admit to putting in for the LEH for the 2 rams behind the house every year. It's a wee bit like your being drawn for the local moose John in that I'll have a better chance of being struck by lightning than being drawn for a California. Still it'll never happen if I don't put in, so one does right?

Thanks again for the info and once more for sharing your knowledge with us, I always appreciate it.

All the best to you both.

Dwayne

I have a similar J.P. Sauer and Sohn Sporter. It was a 30-06 with a poor bore so I had Cliff LaBounty rebore it to 35 Whelen. It has the same barrel and markings as yours, a pretty nice stock with buffalo horn butt plate grip cap. This is the only shot I have of it.

The bore on my rifle seems really good, but if it’s the smaller bore, I was considering rechambering for 338-06, as the bolt face would be the same and I think the the cartridge OAL would still fit. But then I’d be reloading for that. Although… I’ve got about 700 rds of 30-06, with nothing to shoot it out of. So now I’m looking for a 30-06 to go through the ammo, then I can reload for the 338-06.

Alternatively, Is it possible to open the rifling from .318 to .323? Could you achieve something like this with lead lapping, or some other process, then maybe reaming the bore to .311?

A thought about scopes, I’m thinking a lower power (4x?), reproduction scope would suit the rifle well. Any suggestions on something that doesn’t look to modern but is reasonably priced?

I've made claw mount rings From Weaver Grand Slam Extra High rings, they are steel also with lots of meat to work with.. These were a labor of love I wouldn't tackle the job for someone else. This is to show that the can be made, I did it with files, a milling machine would have speeded up the project.



Original scope mounted, quite unusable for a walking hunter.

I feel like there’s a good joke in there somewhere, about two black eyes and a broken nose, from firing each barrel once out of that drilling rifle with that scope mounted.

The new scope looks great though. Low and tight, and not too far back.

Thanks for the insights guys - I think I’m going to enjoy finding a solution for these scope mounts.

Bought a couple of 30-06’s with the older weaver K4 scopes. One is a wide field duplex and the other is a post reticle. I think the post reticle k4 will be going on my JP sauer and sohn.