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I think your above post is a pretty good one. Some honest questions in there, as well as some valid points being made.
Originally Posted by Willto
If you spend hundreds of years tying non Christians to a pole and setting them on fire then you are going to motivate a lot of people to be a Christian, at least in the lands under your control.
During the first 300 years of Christianity, the only people who were being tied to poles and set on fire were Christians themselves. Yet Christianity probably made its greatest strides during its first nearly 300 years, when following Jesus was more difficult than at any other time in history.

The original Jesus movement was clearly appealing, and in time it became contagious, and it swept the entire Roman Empire like an airborne disease. And against all odds, a tiny sect who worshipped a crucified rabbi, with no territory and no military and no authority and no political power and no cultural standing, whose message was built around the simple idea of loving others as God has loved you, not only survived, but thrived…when it should’ve easily been killed off by the powerful Jewish Temple and the mighty Roman Empire…like its leader had been.

Yet at the end of its first nearly 300 years, the Christianity described above had pretty much already replaced the pantheon of Roman, barbarian, and most Egyptian gods and was soon to become the state religion of the very Roman Empire that had tried to stamp it out.


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Willto,

You appear to lack basic Christian history. In your small treaties you want an Infinite Being to think and act like you think He should. If you understood Christianity, you would know God wants us to not have a blind faith but investigate. Like Dr. Kindell told me, "There would be a lot more serious Christians if we had a lot more serious skeptics." He was one! He challenges others to seriously do their own investigation and not accept what others have said. Often I have asked our .com friends to watch the movie, "Expelled! No intelligence allowed." What I generally get are posters telling me what others, who probably didn't watch it, say about it.

Too many lazy skeptics in this world.


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Quote
you want an Infinite Being to think and act like you think He should.

It's wrong to expect common sense from a god who supposedly created us in his own image? If any god wants all the people of Earth to behave in a certain way then it makes no sense to go about it this way. It's not that I am closed minded to the possibility of a god. But I refuse to believe that he would be a dumbass. Which is what Christianity would have me believe he is.

If I wanted everyone at my company to know about a new set of guidelines for behavior then we would hold a meeting where they are all told directly. And each new employee would be personally instructed as well. I wouldn't leave vague and ambiguous pieces of information here and there for people to find and interpret 47 different ways. There are what, like 200 different denominations of Christianity in the US alone. Why reveal yourself to a few goat herders 2000 years ago and then never directly speak to anyone here again? Well, unless you count the 900 foot tall Jesus Oral Roberts claimed he saw in Tulsa. But that may have been medication related.

Also the system of post life eternal justice supposedly set up by the Christian god has got to be the most fracked up nonsense possible. Men had to have dug this out of their ass. No way an omnipotent god came up with this crap.

Consider that both of these outcomes are absolutely possible according to Christians and somehow makes sense to them.

Case one: Some guy is born in India to Hindu parents. In fact his whole extended family is Hindu. In fact his whole home town is Hindu. In fact the whole region of the country he is in is Hindu. So surprise surprise he grows up to be Hindu. But he's a nice hard working honest fellow who harms no one. He meets a woman; falls in love. He treats her well and never harms her or cheats on her. They have kids and he's a very attentive and responsible father to them. Finally after a LONG life of honest hard work and harming no one he dies. And being Hindu (not Christian), HE IS FLUNG INTO A PIT OF FIRE WHERE HE BURNS SCREAMING AND CRYING FOR ALL ETERNITY WITHOUT HOPE OF REPRIEVE OR IT EVER ENDING!!! Just what that lowlife SOB deserved huh?

Case two: A man is born in Texas to Southern Baptist parents. He's a bad seed from the word go. Always in trouble with the law. Cruel and dishonest as they come. At some point he begins raping and killing children. Finally after killing 20 or more he is caught, convicted and sentenced to death. But he is from a Christian family. And on the day he is to be put to death he decides as they are leading him down the hall to the execution chamber to turn his life over to Jesus Christ. You know all 10 minutes he has left. And if he is sincere, and who wouldn't be 10 minutes from death, he goes to heaven and basks in the glow and everlasting ecstasy of god. A just reward for a life well lived.

Then there is the ridiculous one size fits all nature of the Christian afterlife.

Hitler directly sends 6 million Jews to their death in camps and starts a world war that causes the death of another 60 million people in Europe and Russia. Afterlife punishment? Eternal hell fire. Ok I'm good with that.

Some guy who ate meat on a Friday? Afterlife Punishment? Same as Hitler Eternal hell fire.

LOL! Yeah that's fair. Surely only a god could have created a plan that perfect.

If the Christian god is real then he would have to be an unjust monster. Which flies pretty hard in the face of the loving god image Christians try to use in their recruitment pamphlets.

Last edited by Willto; 07/01/22.
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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Looks like the theists have run out of steam. Antlers is in misdirection mode, CCCC is producing bafflegab and Raspy is patting them all on the backside and saying "good job".
Over and above the other of your failures, you are delusional if you believe what you posted.


Just remember that any premise beginning with "God made..." or "God created..." is invalid despite any evasive side arguments.

You should remember that any premise based upon the presumption of no God or beginning with “I don’t know why/what/how [blank] happened but God didn’t…..” is invalid despite your deflection and obvious confusion.

Just because you wrongly believe what you posted doesn’t mean it’s true. 😉
There is hope when someone will say "I don't know or I don't understand". If a Stephen Hawking tells you with a certainty that this universe began when all this matter collapsed into a particle smaller than an atom and created an explosion that turned loose all the matter and has sent it at incredible velocity out into space which in turn produced our finely tuned rhythmic rotating and orbiting universe and that is all there is to it. Well, there isn't any hope of bringing that person back to thinking there is a supernatural first cause.

Believing that there is a supernatural cause is an assumption, an illusion of knowledge where no knowledge exists.

''I don't know how the universe came to be'' is the honest position.

Faith doesn't provide the answers, it just gives believers the illusion of answers.

If there is a God, whatever that may be, God appears to have no interest in dealing with us openly.

Instead we have self appointed representatives assuming to speak on behalf of whatever God they are spruiking.

Most scientist do know how the universe came to be...despite some materialists proposing “time before the Big Bang”, there is no evidence for it all.

I didn't mean the big bang. The universe may be a part of a larger system, cyclic, a one off fluke, quantum instability/fluctuations, or whatever...it hasn't been established, it is not known. Nor has it been established or ruled out that time had a beginning.

It is not known. That is the point of my remark


Originally Posted by Raspy
[
Despite Physicists such as Victor Stenger postulating “Pre-Big Bang time”, or what Stephen Hawking calls, “Imaginary Time” there is no proof for it, whereas, there is much proof for there being a beginning. This is why it is rejected by most Cosmologists because the evidence points to a "singularity" of the beginning of space, time, energy and matter. Far from time being meaningless in the moments of the Big Bang, the timing of the expansion rate from the moment of the Big Bang was critical.

It is not known, nothing has been established in that regard, and no reason to invoke faith, that because we don't know, God did it.

The correct position is: we don't know.

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Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Looks like the theists have run out of steam. Antlers is in misdirection mode, CCCC is producing bafflegab and Raspy is patting them all on the backside and saying "good job".
Over and above the other of your failures, you are delusional if you believe what you posted.


Just remember that any premise beginning with "God made..." or "God created..." is invalid despite any evasive side arguments.

You should remember that any premise based upon the presumption of no God or beginning with “I don’t know why/what/how [blank] happened but God didn’t…..” is invalid despite your deflection and obvious confusion.

Just because you wrongly believe what you posted doesn’t mean it’s true. 😉
There is hope when someone will say "I don't know or I don't understand". If a Stephen Hawking tells you with a certainty that this universe began when all this matter collapsed into a particle smaller than an atom and created an explosion that turned loose all the matter and has sent it at incredible velocity out into space which in turn produced our finely tuned rhythmic rotating and orbiting universe and that is all there is to it. Well, there isn't any hope of bringing that person back to thinking there is a supernatural first cause.

Believing that there is a supernatural cause is an assumption, an illusion of knowledge where no knowledge exists.

''I don't know how the universe came to be'' is the honest position.

Faith doesn't provide the answers, it just gives believers the illusion of answers.

If there is a God, whatever that may be, God appears to have no interest in dealing with us openly.

Instead we have self appointed representatives assuming to speak on behalf of whatever God they are spruiking.

And....

Believing that there is a materialist/naturalistic cause is an assumption, an illusion of knowledge where no knowledge exists.

'I don't know how the universe came to be'' is the honest position.

Faith in materialism/naturalism doesn't provide the answers, it just gives believers the illusion of answers.

The assertion that God has no interest in dealing with us openly is a statement purporting to know the mind/will/purpose of God. On what basis?


Science is the study of the material world, how it works, its attributes and principles. No assumptions should be made.

Especially not - ''we don't know x, y, or z...well, God must have done it.''

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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Looks like the theists have run out of steam. Antlers is in misdirection mode, CCCC is producing bafflegab and Raspy is patting them all on the backside and saying "good job".
Over and above the other of your failures, you are delusional if you believe what you posted.


Just remember that any premise beginning with "God made..." or "God created..." is invalid despite any evasive side arguments.

You should remember that any premise based upon the presumption of no God or beginning with “I don’t know why/what/how [blank] happened but God didn’t…..” is invalid despite your deflection and obvious confusion.

Just because you wrongly believe what you posted doesn’t mean it’s true. 😉
There is hope when someone will say "I don't know or I don't understand". If a Stephen Hawking tells you with a certainty that this universe began when all this matter collapsed into a particle smaller than an atom and created an explosion that turned loose all the matter and has sent it at incredible velocity out into space which in turn produced our finely tuned rhythmic rotating and orbiting universe and that is all there is to it. Well, there isn't any hope of bringing that person back to thinking there is a supernatural first cause.

Believing that there is a supernatural cause is an assumption, an illusion of knowledge where no knowledge exists.

''I don't know how the universe came to be'' is the honest position.

Faith doesn't provide the answers, it just gives believers the illusion of answers.

If there is a God, whatever that may be, God appears to have no interest in dealing with us openly.

Instead we have self appointed representatives assuming to speak on behalf of whatever God they are spruiking.

Most scientist do know how the universe came to be...despite some materialists proposing “time before the Big Bang”, there is no evidence for it all.

I didn't mean the big bang. The universe may be a part of a larger system, cyclic, a one off fluke, quantum instability/fluctuations, or whatever...it hasn't been established, it is not known. Nor has it been established or ruled out that time had a beginning.

It is not known. That is the point of my remark


Originally Posted by Raspy
[
Despite Physicists such as Victor Stenger postulating “Pre-Big Bang time”, or what Stephen Hawking calls, “Imaginary Time” there is no proof for it, whereas, there is much proof for there being a beginning. This is why it is rejected by most Cosmologists because the evidence points to a "singularity" of the beginning of space, time, energy and matter. Far from time being meaningless in the moments of the Big Bang, the timing of the expansion rate from the moment of the Big Bang was critical.

It is not known, nothing has been established in that regard, and no reason to invoke faith, that because we don't know, God did it.

The correct position is: we don't know.

You are correct, we do not absolutely know.......but, from my perspective, my (I think interesting) research shows that the universe was caused by the God of the Bible is a reasonable one since the universe supports this conclusion. For example, the cause of the universe must logically be greater than the effect of the Universe — since no effect can be greater than its cause. We know that at the Big Bang, all space, time, energy and matter, came into existence. Therefore, the First Cause of this must be logically greater than this effects. Therefore, the Cause is not subject to space ~ it must be omnipresent; the Cause is not subject to time ~ it must be eternal; the Cause is not subject to any limits of energy/power ~ it must be omnipotent (all-powerful); and, the Cause cannot be material ~ it must be immaterial. Added to this, the universe is exquisitely fine-tuned and displays the hallmarks of purposeful, thoughtful design, which points to the First Cause being both personable (only personal agents are capable of thought) and omniscient. These are the unique and exclusive attributes of the God of the Bible.


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"It's," so simple good folks, John 3:16, "God so loved the world that He gave His Own Begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, shall not parish, but have eternal life."

All the rest just makes, "It", Better.


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Originally Posted by wabigoon
"It's," so simple good folks, John 3:16, "God so loved the world that He gave His Own Begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, shall not parish, but have eternal life."

All the rest just makes, "It", Better.

i am with you....


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Originally Posted by wabigoon
John 3:16
The Gospel in a nutshell.

Apostle John, who watched Jesus die and days later had breakfast with him on the beach, told us about it. Luke, who thoroughly investigated the events, meticulously wrote em’ down, and interviewed eyewitnesses, told us about it. Apostle Paul…a Pharisee who hated Christians, who was going to arrest and persecute Christians, who was going to singlehandedly stop the Jesus movement, became a Jesus-follower and risked his life traveling all around the Mediterranean rim…documented it to make sure that we’d know about it.

And Jesus’ original followers were martyred not because of what they believed, they gave their lives because of what they saw. And the early Christian ekklesia defied the mighty Roman Empire and the powerful Jewish Temple because they were convinced of what they’d seen, and of what other eyewitnesses had seen.

To me, the historical context of the early Jesus movement and those that comprised it is/are credible and compelling.


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I have that decal on the rear of the pickup.


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
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Want to try, The Lord's Prayer? Our Father who art in Heaven--,

Someone want to pick it up?


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The way scientists operate is they form a hypothesis and then do research to prove it. However, every piece of evidence that disproves their hypothesis is disregarded and disgarded and they then continue the search for anything that *does* corroborate their theory.

Here is what separates Judeo-Christianity from all other "religions" (I hate "religion", but what else do you call it?): My God does not require any assistance from me to "prove" His existence. He takes care of that all by Himself and has since "The Beginning", quite literally. My Bible is scientifically proven on every front. King Solomon stated that, "...the wind blows to the south and then around to the north; around and around goes the wind and on its circuits, it returns" Ecc 1:6. The Bible clearly stated that the world was round somewhere around 3,000 years ago... then the "scientists" came along.

Let's examine the scientific facts: The big band (yes, I believe in the big bang, I just know the Banger! hahahaha) happened in a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, or exactly what I would expect to happen if God *spoke* it into existence

The 2nd law of thermodynamics says that everything decays over time, yet evolutionists claim everything improves and gets better

The law of conservation of mass says that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. The evolutionist agrees with this... except for the creation of *everything in the universe*... from nothing

Astrologists have long known that the moon moves a few inches further away from the earth every year. Reverse-engineer that 13.8 billion years and the moon would not only have been inside the earth's gravitational pull, but it would've been about 12" off the surface and never would've escaped

But here's the real "proof": probably the premier scientific research facility on earth, The Smithsonian Institution set out decades ago to "prove" the fallacy of the Bible... years later, they stated it was one of the most accurate books ever written. When compared to The Book of Mormon, The Quran, whatever Hindu book is used, etc. they called disproving them basically child's play. They found Jericho, they found Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's Ark was found and gold-covered chariot wheels were located at the bottom of the Red Sea!

Most of the scientific forefathers *were* Christians and with every discovery they made, they became even more certain of the role of the Hand of God. They were doing God's work to uncover all of His glorious creation. Look at all of the elitist, leftist institutions of higher education and almost every one had their beginnings in the deepest of Christian research. Then the intelligencia decided years ago that their "hypothesis" was that The Bible was complete fiction and thereby began not only the throwing out of every giant, blaring fact, but the absolute *burying* of them and of any scientist that dared attempt the publishing of them, along with them.
In the 1950's archeologists discovered human femurs that were over 5 feet long (Nephilim in the Bible). Dinosaur bones were found with soft tissue still attached. They found the writings of Marco Polo circa 1,200 where he described living animals that perfectly matched our rendition of a tyrannosaurus rex. The Bible described "Leviathan" and "Behemoth" which the same "intelligencia" then jettisoned as folklore while touting their latest bone discovery from "65,000,000 years ago"

As for the Bible being "translated for 2,000 years and completely unreliable", God once again proved His promise that His word would never fade away. You see, a Bedouhan shepard was looking for a lost animal, but was very hesitant to go in the cave where he suspected that it ran. Dangerous predators were known to live in them, so he first threw a stone inside the entrance. When he heard the sound of pottery breaking, he investigated and found the first cache of the Dead Sea Scrolls. First-century copies of the same books of the Bible that we can purchase at the local Walmart. They were translated, compared and contrasted to the Bibles that we can purchase at the local Walmart and found over a 99.5% accuracy and absolutely zero doctrinal variance (some words were used that had the same meaning: cat vs. feline type of words).

I could cite much more, but I fear our Aussie comrades (among many others in this thread) are just not ready for the Teacher (Jesus, not me! hahahaha) to appear.

Last edited by CAPITALIST; 07/01/22. Reason: I saw the size of the font!

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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Tarquin
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CCCC
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Looks like the theists have run out of steam. Antlers is in misdirection mode, CCCC is producing bafflegab and Raspy is patting them all on the backside and saying "good job".
Over and above the other of your failures, you are delusional if you believe what you posted.


Just remember that any premise beginning with "God made..." or "God created..." is invalid despite any evasive side arguments.

You should remember that any premise based upon the presumption of no God or beginning with “I don’t know why/what/how [blank] happened but God didn’t…..” is invalid despite your deflection and obvious confusion.

Just because you wrongly believe what you posted doesn’t mean it’s true. 😉
There is hope when someone will say "I don't know or I don't understand". If a Stephen Hawking tells you with a certainty that this universe began when all this matter collapsed into a particle smaller than an atom and created an explosion that turned loose all the matter and has sent it at incredible velocity out into space which in turn produced our finely tuned rhythmic rotating and orbiting universe and that is all there is to it. Well, there isn't any hope of bringing that person back to thinking there is a supernatural first cause.

Believing that there is a supernatural cause is an assumption, an illusion of knowledge where no knowledge exists.

''I don't know how the universe came to be'' is the honest position.

Faith doesn't provide the answers, it just gives believers the illusion of answers.

If there is a God, whatever that may be, God appears to have no interest in dealing with us openly.

Instead we have self appointed representatives assuming to speak on behalf of whatever God they are spruiking.

And....

Believing that there is a materialist/naturalistic cause is an assumption, an illusion of knowledge where no knowledge exists.

'I don't know how the universe came to be'' is the honest position.

Faith in materialism/naturalism doesn't provide the answers, it just gives believers the illusion of answers.

The assertion that God has no interest in dealing with us openly is a statement purporting to know the mind/will/purpose of God. On what basis?


Science is the study of the material world, how it works, its attributes and principles. No assumptions should be made.

Especially not - ''we don't know x, y, or z...well, God must have done it.''

The statement that "[s]cience is the study of the material world is itself a non-empirical, non-scientific philosophical/metaphysical claim. It even has a name: "methodological naturalism" and it is not coterminous with or the same as "science", properly understood.


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Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by AcesNeights
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CCCC
[quote=mauserand9mm]Looks like the theists have run out of steam. Antlers is in misdirection mode, CCCC is producing bafflegab and Raspy is patting them all on the backside and saying "good job".
Over and above the other of your failures, you are delusional if you believe what you posted.


Just remember that any premise beginning with "God made..." or "God created..." is invalid despite any evasive side arguments.

You should remember that any premise based upon the presumption of no God or beginning with “I don’t know why/what/how [blank] happened but God didn’t…..” is invalid despite your deflection and obvious confusion.

Just because you wrongly believe what you posted doesn’t mean it’s true. 😉
There is hope when someone will say "I don't know or I don't understand". If a Stephen Hawking tells you with a certainty that this universe began when all this matter collapsed into a particle smaller than an atom and created an explosion that turned loose all the matter and has sent it at incredible velocity out into space which in turn produced our finely tuned rhythmic rotating and orbiting universe and that is all there is to it. Well, there isn't any hope of bringing that person back to thinking there is a supernatural first cause.

Believing that there is a supernatural cause is an assumption, an illusion of knowledge where no knowledge exists.

''I don't know how the universe came to be'' is the honest position.

Faith doesn't provide the answers, it just gives believers the illusion of answers.

If there is a God, whatever that may be, God appears to have no interest in dealing with us openly.

Instead we have self appointed representatives assuming to speak on behalf of whatever God they are spruiking.

Most scientist do know how the universe came to be...despite some materialists proposing “time before the Big Bang”, there is no evidence for it all.

I didn't mean the big bang. The universe may be a part of a larger system, cyclic, a one off fluke, quantum instability/fluctuations, or whatever...it hasn't been established, it is not known. Nor has it been established or ruled out that time had a beginning.

It is not known. That is the point of my remark


Originally Posted by Raspy
[
Despite Physicists such as Victor Stenger postulating “Pre-Big Bang time”, or what Stephen Hawking calls, “Imaginary Time” there is no proof for it, whereas, there is much proof for there being a beginning. This is why it is rejected by most Cosmologists because the evidence points to a "singularity" of the beginning of space, time, energy and matter. Far from time being meaningless in the moments of the Big Bang, the timing of the expansion rate from the moment of the Big Bang was critical.

It is not known, nothing has been established in that regard, and no reason to invoke faith, that because we don't know, God did it.

The correct position is: we don't know.

You are correct, we do not absolutely know.......but, from my perspective, my (I think interesting) research shows that the universe was caused by the God of the Bible is a reasonable one since the universe supports this conclusion. For example, the cause of the universe must logically be greater than the effect of the Universe — since no effect can be greater than its cause. We know that at the Big Bang, all space, time, energy and matter, came into existence. Therefore, the First Cause of this must be logically greater than this effects. Therefore, the Cause is not subject to space ~ it must be omnipresent; the Cause is not subject to time ~ it must be eternal; the Cause is not subject to any limits of energy/power ~ it must be omnipotent (all-powerful); and, the Cause cannot be material ~ it must be immaterial. Added to this, the universe is exquisitely fine-tuned and displays the hallmarks of purposeful, thoughtful design, which points to the First Cause being both personable (only personal agents are capable of thought) and omniscient. These are the unique and exclusive attributes of the God of the Bible.[/quote]

Edit out the fallacies and errors of Raspy's post and you'd have a blank post. You'd think that a god would be embarrassed by the antics of the apologists.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by CAPITALIST
The way scientists operate is they form a hypothesis and then do research to prove it. However, every piece of evidence that disproves their hypothesis is disregarded and disgarded and they then continue the search for anything that *does* corroborate their theory.

Here is what separates Judeo-Christianity from all other "religions" (I hate "religion", but what else do you call it?): My God does not require any assistance from me to "prove" His existence. He takes care of that all by Himself and has since "The Beginning", quite literally. My Bible is scientifically proven on every front. King Solomon stated that, "...the wind blows to the south and then around to the north; around and around goes the wind and on its circuits, it returns" Ecc 1:6. The Bible clearly stated that the world was round somewhere around 3,000 years ago... then the "scientists" came along.

Let's examine the scientific facts: The big band (yes, I believe in the big bang, I just know the Banger! hahahaha) happened in a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, or exactly what I would expect to happen if God *spoke* it into existence

The 2nd law of thermodynamics says that everything decays over time, yet evolutionists claim everything improves and gets better

The law of conservation of mass says that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. The evolutionist agrees with this... except for the creation of *everything in the universe*... from nothing

Astrologists have long known that the moon moves a few inches further away from the earth every year. Reverse-engineer that 13.8 billion years and the moon would not only have been inside the earth's gravitational pull, but it would've been about 12" off the surface and never would've escaped

But here's the real "proof": probably the premier scientific research facility on earth, The Smithsonian Institution set out decades ago to "prove" the fallacy of the Bible... years later, they stated it was one of the most accurate books ever written. When compared to The Book of Mormon, The Quran, whatever Hindu book is used, etc. they called disproving them basically child's play. They found Jericho, they found Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's Ark was found and gold-covered chariot wheels were located at the bottom of the Red Sea!

Most of the scientific forefathers *were* Christians and with every discovery they made, they became even more certain of the role of the Hand of God. They were doing God's work to uncover all of His glorious creation. Look at all of the elitist, leftist institutions of higher education and almost every one had their beginnings in the deepest of Christian research. Then the intelligencia decided years ago that their "hypothesis" was that The Bible was complete fiction and thereby began not only the throwing out of every giant, blaring fact, but the absolute *burying* of them and of any scientist that dared attempt the publishing of them, along with them.
In the 1950's archeologists discovered human femurs that were over 5 feet long (Nephilim in the Bible). Dinosaur bones were found with soft tissue still attached. They found the writings of Marco Polo circa 1,200 where he described living animals that perfectly matched our rendition of a tyrannosaurus rex. The Bible described "Leviathan" and "Behemoth" which the same "intelligencia" then jettisoned as folklore while touting their latest bone discovery from "65,000,000 years ago"

As for the Bible being "translated for 2,000 years and completely unreliable", God once again proved His promise that His word would never fade away. You see, a Bedouhan shepard was looking for a lost animal, but was very hesitant to go in the cave where he suspected that it ran. Dangerous predators were known to live in them, so he first threw a stone inside the entrance. When he heard the sound of pottery breaking, he investigated and found the first cache of the Dead Sea Scrolls. First-century copies of the same books of the Bible that we can purchase at the local Walmart. They were translated, compared and contrasted to the Bibles that we can purchase at the local Walmart and found over a 99.5% accuracy and absolutely zero doctrinal variance (some words were used that had the same meaning: cat vs. feline type of words).

I could cite much more, but I fear our Aussie comrades (among many others in this thread) are just not ready for the Teacher (Jesus, not me! hahahaha) to appear.

Refer my above response to Raspy. Man has been around far, far longer than the bible - man invented gods.

Trying to leverage science to favour faith fails every single time. You have to prove your god first, everything else is "bafflegab",


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by CAPITALIST
The way scientists operate is they form a hypothesis and then do research to prove it. However, every piece of evidence that disproves their hypothesis is disregarded and disgarded and they then continue the search for anything that *does* corroborate their theory.

Here is what separates Judeo-Christianity from all other "religions" (I hate "religion", but what else do you call it?): My God does not require any assistance from me to "prove" His existence. He takes care of that all by Himself and has since "The Beginning", quite literally. My Bible is scientifically proven on every front. King Solomon stated that, "...the wind blows to the south and then around to the north; around and around goes the wind and on its circuits, it returns" Ecc 1:6. The Bible clearly stated that the world was round somewhere around 3,000 years ago... then the "scientists" came along.

Let's examine the scientific facts: The big band (yes, I believe in the big bang, I just know the Banger! hahahaha) happened in a trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second, or exactly what I would expect to happen if God *spoke* it into existence

The 2nd law of thermodynamics says that everything decays over time, yet evolutionists claim everything improves and gets better

The law of conservation of mass says that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed. The evolutionist agrees with this... except for the creation of *everything in the universe*... from nothing

Astrologists have long known that the moon moves a few inches further away from the earth every year. Reverse-engineer that 13.8 billion years and the moon would not only have been inside the earth's gravitational pull, but it would've been about 12" off the surface and never would've escaped

But here's the real "proof": probably the premier scientific research facility on earth, The Smithsonian Institution set out decades ago to "prove" the fallacy of the Bible... years later, they stated it was one of the most accurate books ever written. When compared to The Book of Mormon, The Quran, whatever Hindu book is used, etc. they called disproving them basically child's play. They found Jericho, they found Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's Ark was found and gold-covered chariot wheels were located at the bottom of the Red Sea!

Most of the scientific forefathers *were* Christians and with every discovery they made, they became even more certain of the role of the Hand of God. They were doing God's work to uncover all of His glorious creation. Look at all of the elitist, leftist institutions of higher education and almost every one had their beginnings in the deepest of Christian research. Then the intelligencia decided years ago that their "hypothesis" was that The Bible was complete fiction and thereby began not only the throwing out of every giant, blaring fact, but the absolute *burying* of them and of any scientist that dared attempt the publishing of them, along with them.
In the 1950's archeologists discovered human femurs that were over 5 feet long (Nephilim in the Bible). Dinosaur bones were found with soft tissue still attached. They found the writings of Marco Polo circa 1,200 where he described living animals that perfectly matched our rendition of a tyrannosaurus rex. The Bible described "Leviathan" and "Behemoth" which the same "intelligencia" then jettisoned as folklore while touting their latest bone discovery from "65,000,000 years ago"

As for the Bible being "translated for 2,000 years and completely unreliable", God once again proved His promise that His word would never fade away. You see, a Bedouhan shepard was looking for a lost animal, but was very hesitant to go in the cave where he suspected that it ran. Dangerous predators were known to live in them, so he first threw a stone inside the entrance. When he heard the sound of pottery breaking, he investigated and found the first cache of the Dead Sea Scrolls. First-century copies of the same books of the Bible that we can purchase at the local Walmart. They were translated, compared and contrasted to the Bibles that we can purchase at the local Walmart and found over a 99.5% accuracy and absolutely zero doctrinal variance (some words were used that had the same meaning: cat vs. feline type of words).

I could cite much more, but I fear our Aussie comrades (among many others in this thread) are just not ready for the Teacher (Jesus, not me! hahahaha) to appear.

Refer my above response to Raspy. Man has been around far, far longer than the bible - man invented gods.

Trying to leverage science to favour faith fails every single time. You have to prove your god first, everything else is "bafflegab",

Did man invent God or did he discover the truth of God's existence? Trying to leverage "science" to favor materialism and naturalism (by assuming a priori the truth of methodological naturalism and the non-existence of God) fails every time. You have to prove that the universe is entirely and exclusively material first, everything else is "bafflegab".


Tarquin
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Originally Posted by wabigoon
Want to try, The Lord's Prayer? Our Father who art in Heaven--,

Someone want to pick it up?

hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory,
forever and ever.

Amen.


The truth is like a Lion. You don’t have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself.
St Augustine
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Posts: 48,246
Thanks heaps!

I'll bare my soul a bit, I became a born-again Christian about December 31 67.

Every evening I read my Bible every night, I learned a lot.


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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Posts: 72,215
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Posts: 72,215
Originally Posted by Raspy
Originally Posted by wabigoon
Want to try, The Lord's Prayer? Our Father who art in Heaven--,

Someone want to pick it up?

hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us,
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory,
forever and ever.

Amen.

So, can we be forgiven our sins?

If we can be forgiven our sins, can we be forgiven for the sin of not forgiving that POS Zero?

Inquiring minds......


Ecc 10:2
The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but that of a fool to the left.

A Nation which leaves God behind is soon left behind.

"The Lord never asked anyone to be a tax collector, lowyer, or Redskins fan".

I Dindo Nuffin
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Posts: 48,246
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Posts: 48,246
Ever wish you thought quicker? laugh


These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o
"May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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