I heard a client was killed by a buffalo and the PH injured in SA either Limpopo or Northwest Province. Occurred within the last few days. They were trailing a wounded bull.
“Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away”. Antoine de Saint-Exupery. Posted by Brad.
I heard a client was killed by a buffalo and the PH injured in SA either Limpopo or Northwest Province. Occurred within the last few days. They were trailing a wounded bull.
Occasionally one will take an inordinate amount of killing.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
Is any shot really fatal on those runaway freight trains! I have a recorded segment of "Tracks Across Africa" where a client put's a "fatal" shot into a bull broadside at 25 yds, then the second shot blows the heart to pieces a couple of seconds later. Then the bull runs out of sight except for it's feet. Then it decides to charge! He shoots it the face at 3 feet, head on with the 3 rd shot, all of these with his 416 & 450 gr bullets. Then it knocks him over & the PH shoots it with his double rifle as it throws another guy 6-8 feet in the air. Then the PH gives it another one as it goes on by, then it goes down about 25 yds farther away, it's an incredible sequence in a very short time.
I once shot a mule deer at close range several times. It would not go down. It was in heavy bush and I believed it was wounded by my friend. I wanted to end the chase then and there, so I shot till it dropped. Branches were flying all over, but the deer was hit each time, just not necessarily where I was aiming.
Game sometimes cling to life where by all indicators they should be dead.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
The first one I killed dropped and died in it’s tracks. It was feeding undisturbed facing us head on about 35 yards away with his head up trying to wind us. PH whispered to shoot him at the base of the neck when he dropped his head to feed. I waited a few minutes then killed him. This the first hour of a hunt in the Selous and we were back in camp 30 minutes later. I had 2 on license and he had a friend that just stood around staring at his dead buddy. PH said shoot him too if you want but I declined. Didn’t want to end my hunt 45 minutes in. Gave me a false impression of how easy buffalo hunting was. The next 4 took a lot more work and one determined charge, although badly wounded, took a bullet up the snout to finish.
Is any shot really fatal on those runaway freight trains! I have a recorded segment of "Tracks Across Africa" where a client put's a "fatal" shot into a bull broadside at 25 yds, then the second shot blows the heart to pieces a couple of seconds later. Then the bull runs out of sight except for it's feet. Then it decides to charge! He shoots it the face at 3 feet, head on with the 3 rd shot, all of these with his 416 & 450 gr bullets. Then it knocks him over & the PH shoots it with his double rifle as it throws another guy 6-8 feet in the air. Then the PH gives it another one as it goes on by, then it goes down about 25 yds farther away, it's an incredible sequence in a very short time.
Dick
I saw that segment. Seemed like everyone did everything right and they still got jammed up. If I remember the hunter had a serious shoulder surgery after.
Shot a NW Red Buffalo in Cameroon, right thru the lungs with a solid. Went into the long grass to die, but not fast enough. As we went in to sort him out, he had enough fight in him for a weak charge. Hired our tracker in the thigh before he went out- with a bang so to speak.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Not sure if you are an old African hand or not, but in Africa, and this permeates all involved in bush life, there is a sense of fatalism, and a casual acceptance of danger and bad outcomes. Bush Africans have this “it’s bad ju ju, but won’t happen to me” attitude.
All who spend time in the bush see life and death the way nature does - a part of the cycle of life.
Of course, our hearts go out to the family and loved ones affected. The posting of photos is a reminder and a display of the raw power of the Buffalo and acknowledgement they are not domestic bovine, but truly dangerous game.
We honor the animals taken, and we honor our brothers that have fallen to the dangers of hunting them. It’s no sh\t real crawling through head high grass following a track after something that can cap your your ass in seconds. Nobody in this thread I see is dissing the fallen hunter, but rather reminding each other of the dangers and the thrill of confronting dangerous game.
It’s difficult to describe in a couple of paragraphs. Maybe some of the other African vets can help me out.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Not sure if you are an old African hand or not, but in Africa, and this permeates all involved in bush life, there is a sense of fatalism, and a casual acceptance of danger and bad outcomes. Bush Africans have this “it’s bad ju ju, but won’t happen to me” attitude.
All who spend time in the bush see life and death the way nature does - a part of the cycle of life.
Of course, our hearts go out to the family and loved ones affected. The posting of photos is a reminder and a display of the raw power of the Buffalo and acknowledgement they are not domestic bovine, but truly dangerous game.
We honor the animals taken, and we honor our brothers that have fallen to the dangers of hunting them. It’s no sh\t real crawling through head high grass following a track after something that can cap your your ass in seconds. Nobody in this thread I see is dissing the fallen hunter, but rather reminding each other of the dangers and the thrill of confronting dangerous game.
It’s difficult to describe in a couple of paragraphs. Maybe some of the other African vets can help me out.
I'm no 'old African hand', but having spent time in 8 African countries so far, have probably seen as much of Africa as many here, and more than a few. I've witnessed raw animal power. I watched a rhinoceros take on a young bull elephant at a waterhole and saw him hook and ram and badly injure him. That was on the Serengeti. I've watched a pride of Tsavo lions take down and eat a still kicking zebra, starting with his stomach. I've hunted alongside San bushmen in the Kalahari in Botswana. I've seen the big five up close, in the wild. I loved taking in all of it. All of which of has nothing to do with posting buffalo hero shots after a man got killed on a buffalo hunt. I think doing so is in poor taste at the very best. A man is killed on a hunt and some respond by posting up hero shots and congratulating each other on their pics of buffalo they took in years past? Just doesn't seem at all appropriate.
I enjoy seeing pics and reading of folks hunting all manner of game, dangerous and otherwise, and learning about things. That's why I read here. Funny, but when there are posts about brown/grizzly bear maulings and killings, no one posts up, "hey, looky here at this bear I killed!', with others chiming in with comments like, "nice bear, dude!', 'I took mine with a .416!' and 'when are we heading back to the peninsula to chase another?' Why is that? Probably because doing such is uncouth and boorish in my opinion. Obviously, YMMV.
Not sure if you are an old African hand or not, but in Africa, and this permeates all involved in bush life, there is a sense of fatalism, and a casual acceptance of danger and bad outcomes. Bush Africans have this “it’s bad ju ju, but won’t happen to me” attitude.
All who spend time in the bush see life and death the way nature does - a part of the cycle of life.
Of course, our hearts go out to the family and loved ones affected. The posting of photos is a reminder and a display of the raw power of the Buffalo and acknowledgement they are not domestic bovine, but truly dangerous game.
We honor the animals taken, and we honor our brothers that have fallen to the dangers of hunting them. It’s no sh\t real crawling through head high grass following a track after something that can cap your your ass in seconds. Nobody in this thread I see is dissing the fallen hunter, but rather reminding each other of the dangers and the thrill of confronting dangerous game.
It’s difficult to describe in a couple of paragraphs. Maybe some of the other African vets can help me out.
I enjoy seeing pics and reading of folks hunting all manner of game, dangerous and otherwise, and learning about things. That's why I read here. Funny, but when there are posts about brown/grizzly bear maulings and killings, no one posts up, "hey, looky here at this bear I killed!', with others chiming in with comments like, "nice bear, dude!', 'I took mine with a .416!' and 'when are we heading back to the peninsula to chase another?' Why is that? Probably because doing such is uncouth and boorish in my opinion. Obviously, YMMV.
Take care.
"Funny, but when there are posts about brown/grizzly bear maulings and killings, no one posts up, "hey, looky here at this bear I killed!'" dealing in absolutes now are we? Folks posted pictures just to relate they agree on the potential for buffalo (and other dangerous game, to injure or kill you) and I am sure most if not all the guys who posted pictures, including your truly, I don't think are trying to impress you or anybody else.
get off your high horse/
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I am sure most if not all the guys who posted pictures, including your truly, I don't think are trying to impress you or anybody else.
get off your high horse/
Doubling down, I see. Of course that's what you were doing. You're the one who posted your buffalo shots and wrote, 'up close and personal', with nary a word about the guy getting killed on his hunt. Readers are supposed to take what away from that, exactly?
It's safe to say I'm not alone in enjoying most any pics of people and game taken in Africa and anywhere else, and reading of their experiences, good, bad or indifferent. What I don't think is that folks were expecting a bunch of personal pics taken on their own safaris on a thread about a guy getting killed on a hunt.
The shots themselves of the buffalo taken were great, but IMNSHO belong in a thread celebrating the thrills and challenges of a DG hunt, not on one such as this, but as I wrote before, my opinion only and your mileage obviously varies greatly from mine.
Here's another article about the original topic. Feel free to post more of your pics.
Buffalo Attacked & Killed A 50-Year-Old Benjamin De Bruyn By Heist.money (self media writer) | 8 days ago
Buffalo Attack And Kills A 50-year-old Limpopo Man, this is definitely something that we did not expect as the ordinary members of the public. Especially in the wake of the fact that there are incidents that are happening, which implicate the president of this country who is also referred to as the buffalo but that is a story for another day.
The Police in Limpopo are investigating the strange incident that happened at Oxford Farm Steenbokpan at around 08:00 in the morning, it is clear that this old man was in no shape to the running away from a wild animal like that.
And that is why he could have lost his life even if you are quick on your feet oftentimes these animals can run faster than humans, the man was with the farm owner when the buffalo attacked.
Despite the fact that there were several shots which were fired towards the buffalo the attack from the animal was Swift and his death was instant, paramedics were contacted to come to his rescue but as soon as they came they assess the situation and discovered that there was nothing else that they could do for him.
The farm owner tried to rescue him by firing at the buffalo, this is when the buffalo turned around and started chasing him but fortunately for him he escaped by climbing onto a tree along with the photographer who was present on scene.
Benjamin De Bruyn is the 50 year old man who unfortunately lost his life due to an attack from a buffalo, attacks from animals are things that are real and they are often captured by the statistics that will tell you that a certain animal is responsible for the deaths of so many people per year we must pay Close attention to those things.
I posted pictures of three buffalo and what it took to kill two, then I posted one that got me, broke my back.
Bruce, I wasn't aware of your dugga boy hunt gone sour. Any man who's survived an attack from a cape buffalo has my respect and I'm in awe of your surviving such an ordeal. I'd love to hear more, but understand if it's something you don't care to relate in detail. Needless to say, you're one who obviously understands the potential danger involved and exactly what it means to have put your life on the line for the opportunity to take on a buff literally and in person--even if it was your buddy's buff. When I originally read your words 'it got me', I obviously didn't understand your ordeal.
As an aside, I find myself wondering where the line is drawn between PH and client as far as perceived responsibility. At what point does the PH determine that it's 'every man for himself' versus, 'it's my obligation and responsibility to protect the client and as such shall put my life on the line if things on a DG hunt go south'?
In the article I posted, which was very poorly written, admittedly, I noted that the author wrote about the hunter being 'an old man' at age 52, and not fleet of foot. Not sure what that had to do with his ultimately being gored to death, but reading that the PH/landowner and the photographer managed to escape injury by climbing a tree had me shaking my head some, I confess.
Having never hunted DG before, I don't know what protocols are in place, but I know that if I were a client on such a hunt, I'd pretty much insist that my PH/host had enough ammo with him to lay down a field of fire at least enough to deter a charging buffalo that was intent on stomping the life out of me, or taking me apart by running me through with his horns.
Thank you for the follow up, sir. May your injuries not pain you too much.
Call it tripling down. "uo close and personal" BECAUSE the buffalo had his dander up and we were able to knock him over before things got out of hand (buff #2). Up close and personal happened to a very nice outfitter (bears coincidentally)) named Bob Fontana, where a buffalo came out of nowhere and killed him outright. Rules of engagement are well discussed ahead of time between client and PH and he bases his actions on his judgment of both the situation AND the client's ability, but as is the case (such as the one here and Fontana's), things can go south fast. Your stereotyping of ALL who post here and ALL who supposedly never do this when hunting bear is about as wrong as your logic here. so like I said, get off your high horse.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I posted pictures of three buffalo and what it took to kill two, then I posted one that got me, broke my back.
Bruce, I wasn't aware of your dugga boy hunt gone sour. Any man who's survived an attack from a cape buffalo has my respect and I'm in awe of your surviving such an ordeal. I'd love to hear more, but understand if it's something you don't care to relate in detail. Needless to say, you're one who obviously understands the potential danger involved and exactly what it means to have put your life on the line for the opportunity to take on a buff literally and in person--even if it was your buddy's buff. When I originally read your words 'it got me', I obviously didn't understand your ordeal.
As an aside, I find myself wondering where the line is drawn between PH and client as far as perceived responsibility. At what point does the PH determine that it's 'every man for himself' versus, 'it's my obligation and responsibility to protect the client and as such shall put my life on the line if things on a DG hunt go south'?
In the article I posted, which was very poorly written, admittedly, I noted that the author wrote about the hunter being 'an old man' at age 52, and not fleet of foot. Not sure what that had to do with his ultimately being gored to death, but reading that the PH/landowner and the photographer managed to escape injury by climbing a tree had me shaking my head some, I confess.
Having never hunted DG before, I don't know what protocols are in place, but I know that if I were a client on such a hunt, I'd pretty much insist that my PH/host had enough ammo with him to lay down a field of fire at least enough to deter a charging buffalo that was intent on stomping the life out of me, or taking me apart by running me through with his horns.
I'll try to weigh in on this. Hopefully, I understand the original article accurately.
First, to the question of what obligation a PH has to protect his client. Answer to that is the PH is the body guard of his clients. That means he will stand between his client and potential harm. That's why they are licensed professionals. This goes back to the origins of the African Professional Hunter in British East Africa, specifically Kenya. Men like Phillip Percival, Bunny Allen, Andrew Holberg, Bror von Blixen, Stan Lawrence-Brown, JA Hunter, Donald Ker , etc., established these standard which was adopted throughout. The PH takes the charge from the elephant, goes into the long grass after the wounded buffalo, and all of that.
To this current story, the specifics are a bit vague, but the dearly departed seemed to be on private land, and it is not clear to me if he was hunting or videoing. Says "he was with the farm owner". I must surmise the "farm owner" was not a licensed PH. If hunting, he was out maybe guiding him, but this is a different scenario than hiring a true PH. This is hunting on your buddy's ranch with your friend, it would appear.
In this instant, the farm owner/buddy tried to intervene, but saved his own hide when things got hairy (no criticism intended).
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
I'll try to weigh in on this. Hopefully, I understand the original article accurately.
First, to the question of what obligation a PH has to protect his client. Answer to that is the PH is the body guard of his clients. That means he will stand between his client and potential harm. That's why they are licensed professionals.
That was my understanding. Seems only right. Similar to a ship's captain. Ultimately, the skipper is responsible for the well-being of all passengers aboard and it is his duty to do everything in his power to get everyone back to port safely.
Originally Posted by hatari
To this current story, the specifics are a bit vague, but the dearly departed seemed to be on private land, and it is not clear to me if he was hunting or videoing.
To me it read that the farm owner-- in a professional capacity or not isn't clear--guiding Mr. De Bruyne. Another guy, a photographer, was along as well. Both the farm owner and the photographer got up in a tree after Mr. De Bruyne was killed, and after the farm owner had 'shot at' the buffalo during the fracas.
Originally Posted by hatari
Says "he was with the farm owner". I must surmise the "farm owner" was not a licensed PH. If hunting, he was out maybe guiding him, but this is a different scenario than hiring a true PH. This is hunting on your buddy's ranch with your buddy stuff, it would appear.
I this instant, the farm owner/buddy tried to intervene, but saved his own hide when things got hairy (no criticism intended).
I'm thinking you're correct, but it's not clear from the article. I can only hope someone went back to finish the offending bull, which presumably was wounded. Sad deal all around. I hope what both articles were accurate as far as the man dying very quickly.
Your stereotyping of ALL who post here and ALL who supposedly never do this when hunting bear is about as wrong as your logic here. so like I said, get off your high horse.
BS.
Edited to add: OK, so you don't like my bear analogy? Fine. You may recall a couple years back where a PH got ravaged by an elephant. That man eventually succumbed to his horrific injuries dealt him by the elephant. His name was Philip Smythe. Funny, but I don't recall seeing a *single* poster on the number of threads about the incident where other folks posted pics of their trophy elephant. Here's some help finding one with your search.
Likewise, I've read over the years a few cases where elk and even deer hunters were badly wounded and a couple even killed by their quarry (most as a result of walking up to an animal they thought was dead but was not and got speared by an antler). How many follow up pics on those threads had pics of other people's deer posted? You care to take a guess? I'll wait for you to try--and fail--to spin your way out of this. Again.
I posted pictures of three buffalo and what it took to kill two, then I posted one that got me, broke my back.
Bruce, I wasn't aware of your dugga boy hunt gone sour. Any man who's survived an attack from a cape buffalo has my respect and I'm in awe of your surviving such an ordeal. I'd love to hear more, but understand if it's something you don't care to relate in detail. Needless to say, you're one who obviously understands the potential danger involved and exactly what it means to have put your life on the line for the opportunity to take on a buff literally and in person--even if it was your buddy's buff. When I originally read your words 'it got me', I obviously didn't understand your ordeal.
As an aside, I find myself wondering where the line is drawn between PH and client as far as perceived responsibility. At what point does the PH determine that it's 'every man for himself' versus, 'it's my obligation and responsibility to protect the client and as such shall put my life on the line if things on a DG hunt go south'?
In the article I posted, which was very poorly written, admittedly, I noted that the author wrote about the hunter being 'an old man' at age 52, and not fleet of foot. Not sure what that had to do with his ultimately being gored to death, but reading that the PH/landowner and the photographer managed to escape injury by climbing a tree had me shaking my head some, I confess.
Having never hunted DG before, I don't know what protocols are in place, but I know that if I were a client on such a hunt, I'd pretty much insist that my PH/host had enough ammo with him to lay down a field of fire at least enough to deter a charging buffalo that was intent on stomping the life out of me, or taking me apart by running me through with his horns.
Thank you for the follow up, sir. May your injuries not pain you too much.
I do appreciate that, my friend. I have daily reminders of the dust up. ...sent you an account...
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
I do appreciate that, my friend. I have daily reminders of the dust up. ...sent you an account...
Many thanks, sir. I look forward to reading it, and again, I'm sorry for your discomfort. Some of us have suffered injuries doing things we love and/or are passionate about that can last a lifetime. For me it was a series of bad decisions I made one fine day many years ago on a motorcycle, one that cost me a lung and had me clinically dead for a time. I suppose at least in your case you can rest easy some as what happened, I'm guessing, was sh*t luck and not of your own doing. I don't have that little, uh, luxury...
I think I have 8 segments of "Tracks Across Africa" recorded & in 2 of them they pay tribute to 2 African PH's who paid the ultimate price when following up dangerous game that had been wounded by clients. Both of these gentlemen were experienced, well respected PH's who had been in the business for a very long time, the odds just caught up with them after the clients had made less than fatal shots on Cape Buffalo. One PH stepped right in front of his client & emptied his rifle trying to save him, which he did but gave up his own life in the process. Hunting the big Five..... or the big Six if you include Hippo comes with a cost that everyone must accept, not every client realizes that but every single PH does. Myself, I think every animal over there is capable of taking you out if you get carless, just like Kamo gari mentions above, even a deer can do it. On every single one of my animals on both trips my PH had me put a "finisher" in each animal just to be sure. A shot through the spine just in case. On my last safari a few months ago I had a young PH working on his second season & after shooting my Gemsbok with a high shoulder shot & dropping it I walked up and he said, put a "finisher" between the shoulder blades, down through the spine. I did & that closed the deal. He then said that just the year before his best friend, a fellow young PH had grabbed the horns on a "dead" Gemsbok for photo's & the dead bull thrust it's head back & pierced his friends heart with one of those horns, killing him right in front of all of them. [img]https://i.imgur.com/PXYFir9h.jpg?1[/img] Dick
I think I have 8 segments of "Tracks Across Africa" recorded & in 2 of them they pay tribute to 2 African PH's who paid the ultimate price when following up dangerous game that had been wounded by clients. Both of these gentlemen were experienced, well respected PH's who had been in the business for a very long time, the odds just caught up with them after the clients had made less than fatal shots on Cape Buffalo. One PH stepped right in front of his client & emptied his rifle trying to save him, which he did but gave up his own life in the process. Hunting the big Five..... or the big Six if you include Hippo comes with a cost that everyone must accept, not every client realizes that but every single PH does. Myself, I think every animal over there is capable of taking you out if you get carless, just like Kamo gari mentions above, even a deer can do it. On every single one of my animals on both trips my PH had me put a "finisher" in each animal just to be sure. A shot through the spine just in case. On my last safari a few months ago I had a young PH working on his second season & after shooting my Gemsbok with a high shoulder shot & dropping it I walked up and he said, put a "finisher" between the shoulder blades, down through the spine. I did & that closed the deal. He then said that just the year before his best friend, a fellow young PH had grabbed the horns on a "dead" Gemsbok for photo's & the dead bull thrust it's head back & pierced his friends heart with one of those horns, killing him right in front of all of them. [img]https://i.imgur.com/PXYFir9h.jpg?1[/img] Dick
Tragic ends to what I assume were good men. Some folks out there pay a steep, steep price to help make others' dreams come true. Thanks for posting and RIP to those who were lost.
Always alot of talk about the PH responsibilities in such matters. What about the client's?
I don't know if it's enumerated or specifically understood but just me, and for me, I don't know that I could look at my PH and say "welp, that's messed up. Go in there and root him out. I'll wait here - good luck". I made the shot - as a hunter, I finish what I started. I'd feel like I was expected to take part in the follow up and hunt until the animal is dead. Now that might mean we come up with a plan and execute it together and likely the PH is going to know where to put me where I can do the least damage to someone else due to inexperience with the situation but damn it - I'd want to at the least, be involved.
More people are killed by Horses,than Buffalo. I enjoy that Mark Sullivan shoots 'em like fhuqking Prairie Dogs,to the chagrin of blue haired bitties the World over. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Always alot of talk about the PH responsibilities in such matters. What about the client's?
I don't know if it's enumerated or specifically understood but just me, and for me, I don't know that I could look at my PH and say "welp, that's messed up. Go in there and root him out. I'll wait here - good luck". I made the shot - as a hunter, I finish what I started. I'd feel like I was expected to take part in the follow up and hunt until the animal is dead. Now that might mean we come up with a plan and execute it together and likely the PH is going to know where to put me where I can do the least damage to someone else due to inexperience with the situation but damn it - I'd want to at the least, be involved.
I've pondered the same before and there was little thought involved before concluding that I'd be going with the PH to do anything I could to try to help finish anything I started/botched. Then again, I imagine some pros would feel that a rookie DG hunter would be nothing but a hindrance on such a risky endeavor. Still, I'd have a serious problem letting another man risk his life for a game animal on my behalf. Anyway, Teal, I hear you and feel the same.
Interesting, but I don't recall ever reading of anyone in a situation where an immediate follow-up just seemed so dangerous and fraught with levels of peril just made a follow-up exercise plainly foolhardy, and it was decided that a trophy fee would be paid but that a follow-up would be put on hold. Maybe even on a permanent hold? Whether it be chasing after a wounded brown bear in a thick alder jungle or a shot up cape buffalo in the thick jesse, one might think that a fresh guide or PH following up the next day--or better yet a team of experienced guides/PHs (I know, not necessarily even an option in a remote bush camp) following up would in some cases be the prudent thing to do. Obviously, it does happen, as in situations where night is falling and the like. No one in their right mind is happily headed out in the dark to poke around looking for a wounded leopard, right?
There's no obligation to my mind that anyone taking a client on a DG hunt is obligated to go on a suicide mission for the client/hunter. But then there are those pesky ethics and maybe even pride things that come into play. An enraged and wounded animal may be prone to smashing or ripping up any human it came across, like a villager, or the guys the next mountain over doing some fishing or hunting of their own. Then there's the suffering of the animal. Tough choices, I figure, but one does indeed wonder about the risk vs. reward aspect.
As far as MS, if what many in the know have written and say is true, that MS's MO for the making of his 'Death in The XYZ' series of videos was to intentionally wound and provoke game into charges for the benefit of exciting footage to be sold, well, to me that's pure scumbaggery. Doesn't surprise me that you think that's a comical thing, though.
Hunting, being what it is, can be dangerous anywhere. A guy I booked an African hunt through shot his PH's arm to pieces from behind with a .458WM while following up on an already shot up buffalo. Hell, duck hunters die all the time. Naturally, not at the hands (er, wings) of the duck, but some folks just had to learn the hard way (my hand's up)...
By the way, luv2safari, Jayzus, man. What an ordeal. You're one of very few who understand exactly what it feels like to be the object of a dangerous animal's rage, and actually somehow survived it. Thank you very much for sharing that, and I really wish you the very best in dealing with your lingering health issues and pain. For the record, it seems you're well entitled to posting your buff pics on this thread. Maybe the only one!
I have a weird relationship with Africa. I like the lore, love the rifles and will spend time watching the hunts on youtube but I have no desire to actually go.
No desire to really shoot anything over there - my bloodlust for any critter has waned a lot lately. I'm not big on guided hunts and the like because just sluicing some thing and hanging a head - meh, just doesn't make my socks move. I'm big on any deer I shoot off our property or out of our UP deer camp and I always felt pride in ducks and geese I shot on the bay but to say, go to Kansas and shoot a large white tail - just not all that important to me. Non-trophy hunter, I'm comfortable with my penis size, don't need to BS people about "Got 3 150 class and a 170 class buck" WGAF that matters? So no - I've never shot a trophy anything. I'm ok with it. Oddly enough - it's usually other people that take issue. I have done "semi-guided" bear hunts in Canada as a youth which were a blast but BTDT so unlikely to repeat.
The closest I come to a real desire but not enough to spend the money would be an Alaskan hunt of some sort - mostly just to experience the country/landscape.
I'm happy doing what I do now - deer hunt the UP, hope to find a duck hunting opportunity here and there and do some grouse hunting now and continue to support various conservation groups. My son is 22 - grandchildren are likely in the next couple years, I just want to spend time outside with all involved, bloody hands don't matter to me - want others successful.
I've said it often - I don't care if I never shoot another deer in my life but I better be able to go deer hunting every year.
there may another reason why some of these buffalo hunters get hurt or killed ? some of these wealthier hunters sometimes just might not have as much experience at hunting as many of us do, its just a thought ? i have seen this even when deer hunting ,my son when he was in college he was almost a GOD for what he knew hunting and fishing world ,if they wounded an animal he had to go find it,showed them how to gut ,skin , process animals and fish, even cook wild game and fish for them. seems many families don`t know much of the old ways,many of these college kids had never shot an animal even or knew how to use a gun. i being a FFL dealer had to show a guy how to use a 375 H&H i sold him because his boss was taking him to Africa to hunt and he never had been ever hunting any place. many of us on this forum may never go to Africa we are just blue collar family people but we do know how to hunt with a gun.
I have always been a blue collar paper pusher and small farm farmer, and I was raised hunting...shot quail on the wing starting at 7. I was determined to hunt Africa all my life and just went and did it on a brand new credit card back in 2000. Like almost everyone who had gone there, I was planning my next safari as I got on the plane home.
Through guile and some good friends I made in Africa and at shows, I booked a few hunts for PHs and got back that way. I saw exactly what you surmised. Thanks to excellent PHs these new hunters had life changing experiences and remained safe.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
Pete, the PH I did my first buffalo hunt with made an excellent point during the hunt. A LOT of buffalo clients are older because they can't afford to go until then. They may have hunted some, but rarely with a rifle that kicks as much as even a minimum buffalo chambering, such as the .375 H&H--and due to hearing so many tales of "unkillable" buffalo they may bring a rifle that kicks a LOT harder. So they don't practice much before they head over.
They're often in not great hiking shape, and all the time they're tracking buffalo over hill and dale, they're thinking about the stories they've heard. As my PH said, "By the time they actually get a shot, they're equally scared of the buffalo and their rifle! It's no wonder quite a few botch the shot."
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Pete, the PH I did my first buffalo hunt with made an excellent point during the hunt. A LOT of buffalo clients are older because they can't afford to go until then. They may have hunted some, but rarely with a rifle that kicks as much as even a minimum buffalo chambering, such as the .375 H&H--and due to hearing so many tales of "unkillable" buffalo they may bring a rifle that kicks a LOT harder. So they don't practice much before they head over.
They're often in not great hiking shape, and all the time they're tracking buffalo over hill and dale, they're thinking about the stories they've heard. As my PH said, "By the time they actually get a shot, they're equally scared of the buffalo and their rifle! It's no wonder quite a few botch the shot."
Had another sad conversation recently with my brother who thinks he wants to hunt buff with me.
Told him he's not willing to get in shape so he can actually enjoy the hunt rather than have the hunt exhaust him.
Told him as well that until he pulls himself away from the bench and put's in realistic practice of more than 10 rounds a year then he's just too damn dangerous to be around taking pokes at buff.
It's you and the bullet, and all the rest is secondary.
Pete, the PH I did my first buffalo hunt with made an excellent point during the hunt. A LOT of buffalo clients are older because they can't afford to go until then. They may have hunted some, but rarely with a rifle that kicks as much as even a minimum buffalo chambering, such as the .375 H&H--and due to hearing so many tales of "unkillable" buffalo they may bring a rifle that kicks a LOT harder. So they don't practice much before they head over.
They're often in not great hiking shape, and all the time they're tracking buffalo over hill and dale, they're thinking about the stories they've heard. As my PH said, "By the time they actually get a shot, they're equally scared of the buffalo and their rifle! It's no wonder quite a few botch the shot."
For my one and only buffalo hunt ( at age 48) I started months ahead walking up to 7 miles at a whack, and shot over 600 rounds-ALL offhand-through my .375 H&H. It paid off in spades during 14 days of buffalo hunting and a long awaited opportunity in the last 20 minutes of light on day 14.
Oh, and during a few close encounters with buffalo, I never felt scared of them. Like snakes, I respect them, but fear...no.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
My one only buffalo hunt preparation was very similar to ingwe's. Lots of hiking, lots of shooting with my 375 and 404. Somewhere around the 500-600 round count mark. Off hand and sticks practice only, once initial load development and sight in was done. 15-200 yards shooting distances.
Went in not expecting the PH to have to shoot, or finish any mess I may have created alone.
It only took me nine days of hunting though. Got into a couple of pucker situations, but was never scared. A couple more instances where discretion won out and we backed away. Always focused on the moment/task at hand. Wife standing behind just me added to the heightened situational awareness.
PH was there to protect us, I can guarandamntee you that I was going to protect my wife, or die trying.
The actual hunt and shooting the buffalo was pretty pedestrian. I am OK with that. Back to camp by eleven, buffalo in the salt. Celebratories ensued and hunting was scratched for the day. Will never forget that hunt, or day for that matter. I want to go back, fully realizing the seriousness of buffalo hunting.
More people are killed by Horses,than Buffalo. I enjoy that Mark Sullivan shoots 'em like fhuqking Prairie Dogs,to the chagrin of blue haired bitties the World over. Hint.
More people are killed by Horses,than Buffalo. I enjoy that Mark Sullivan shoots 'em like fhuqking Prairie Dogs,to the chagrin of blue haired bitties the World over. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................
This is actually 100% true.
It is not 100% true. First of all deaths in rural Africa are not always recorded, so there is no accurate data on deaths and causes.
Second, there are far more horses in the world than Buffalo. Human interaction with horses occurs millions times more daily than with Buffalo. Horse deaths tend to be purely accidental.
I have no reservations walking up to a horse. Cape buffalo, not so much.
Not going to touch the Sullivan thing. Pages and pages on multiple forums about this subject.
The decedent appears to have been the client Hunter. Looking him up on Facebook he was a black African and a doctor. Sad situation and condolences to his family.
More people are killed by Horses,than Buffalo. I enjoy that Mark Sullivan shoots 'em like fhuqking Prairie Dogs,to the chagrin of blue haired bitties the World over. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................
Ya really gotta watch those wounded horses, they’re really known to backtrack, stomp ya into the ground and hook ya with their horns!!! It happens daily you ignorant fuuck!!! Haha
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
More people are killed by Horses,than Buffalo. I enjoy that Mark Sullivan shoots 'em like fhuqking Prairie Dogs,to the chagrin of blue haired bitties the World over. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................
Ya really gotta watch those wounded horses, they’re really known to backtrack, stomp ya into the ground and hook ya with their horns!!! It happens daily you ignorant fuuck!!! Haha
I worked or my dad as a child driving a team of Belgiums on small horselogging operations and did a little backcountry trips in Idaho with stock. I can assure anyone that when your hitching up a team to logs its dangerous but when you accidentally park them over a yellow jackets nest it's as dangerous as any beast you'll encounter. Chaos at best.
With horses it's not them going after you but more about them reacting when spooked and excited. They can be lightening and kill a human just as easy as any cape buffalo. I know a guy who got trampled in his barn by his team when a thunderstorm hit and spooked them and they killed him.
Bull cattle can be just as dangerous too. Sure cape buffalo are mean and tough by their nature but I doubt they're anyore dangerous than an Hecks cattle one on one.
Bottom line is, spend enough time around cape buffalo, or even large domestic or wild stock and there's a probability you can get stomped into soup. Fortunately even a cape buffalo or horse can be stopped with an 308win to the brain.
I understand that, I’ve owened horses, hunted on horses, worked on horse farms, they got a brain the size of a walnut. Comparing horse deaths to Cape buffalo deaths is apples and oranges. Bout like comparing bee sting deaths to Cape buffalo deaths.
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
More people are killed by Horses,than Buffalo. I enjoy that Mark Sullivan shoots 'em like fhuqking Prairie Dogs,to the chagrin of blue haired bitties the World over. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................
This is actually 100% true.
It is not 100% true. First of all deaths in rural Africa are not always recorded, so there is no accurate data on deaths and causes.
Second, there are far more horses in the world than Buffalo. Human interaction with horses occurs millions times more daily than with Buffalo. Horse deaths tend to be purely accidental.
I have no reservations walking up to a horse. Cape buffalo, not so much.
Not going to touch the Sullivan thing. Pages and pages on multiple forums about this subject.
It's not even close to being true, then again consider the idiot making the comparison. More people are killed in Africa by the mosquito, so numbers is a stupid and irrelevant comparison. There are many instances when a client wounded buffalo recedes into a defensive position that would practically guarantee a charge and let's not even discuss wounded cats. The PH makes the decision as to: 1. Is the follow up reasonably safe to involve the client or must he go in alone? 2. If situation is clearly foolhardy, you either wait, get more PHs (if available) to help OR change tactics (like move in with the vehicle if the terrain permits, etc).
Bottom line that is why PHs exist and that is why they call it dangerous game.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Another point might be that most hunters don't try to ride Cape buffalo--the major problem with horses. Otherwise the death-rate might be more equal!
Given enough liquor....
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Actually, I have a picture of me riding a buffalo, but opted not to post, lest I be accused of grandstanding....again.. in any case, here is the perfunctory "RIP"..
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Another point might be that most hunters don't try to ride Cape buffalo--the major problem with horses. Otherwise the death-rate might be more equal!
Haha that’s a fact!! 😂
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Fortunately,"SCARY!" Cow Phobia is "real",for them who need it most,as they rent a fence to hop. While others shoot 'em by the hunnerts,less even shrugging shoulders. Hint.
Bless your hearts.
Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I have no idea what so hilariously fuels your Manic Bovine Phobia,but is in fact likely both...if only for fhuqking starters. Hint.
Fence Hoppers like to obliviously quantify,that Imitation is THE most Sincere form of Flattery,as they Whine aloud. Kudos on being so Emotional! hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Sugar tits, nobody but “you” is/or talking about being “scared”… hell Brian killed one with his bow, think it went 30-40 yards… very “scary”!!! Haha
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
They are your deeply rooted Phobias and as plainly cited,others don't even shrug shoulders. Hint.
Hell...you can't even punctuate for yourself and that's REAL scary for you. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
You are welcome to your "SCARY!" Cow Phobia(s) and pardon no shoulders being shrugged in the regard,as the "surprise" of your affliction to same,is less than nil. Hint.
Bless your heart.
Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!....................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Stick to what you know- Alaska. You have some credibility there. Not like Phil by a long shot. Africa? - you couldn’t find it on a map.
Hint- ur phoucing retard act don’t work here darling. Just sayin dumb qhunt. #midget
She doesn’t even have “Alaska” experience, bench legged rut dumb 5 month season bucks is hardly “huntin”, nor is kelpfed beach bears…. 😂😂
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
They are your deeply rooted Phobias and as plainly cited,others don't even shrug shoulders. Hint.
Hell...you can't even punctuate for yourself and that's REAL scary for you. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..................
The simple fact remains, you’ll only watch cape buff killin via YouTube, you “lucky” cuunt!!! Haha
Do you play “halo” to, with your Rambo knife strapped to your side??? Haha
PS, you just need to stop liar Larry 👊🏻
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
Big slouch, perhaps you can get your cabelas game goin again, you can be hunter Dan??? Haha
Ping pong balls for the win. Once you've wrestled everything else in life is easy. Dan Gable I keep my circle small, I’d rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.
I have a weird relationship with Africa. I like the lore, love the rifles and will spend time watching the hunts on youtube but I have no desire to actually go.
No desire to really shoot anything over there - my bloodlust for any critter has waned a lot lately. I'm not big on guided hunts and the like because just sluicing some thing and hanging a head - meh, just doesn't make my socks move. I'm big on any deer I shoot off our property or out of our UP deer camp and I always felt pride in ducks and geese I shot on the bay but to say, go to Kansas and shoot a large white tail - just not all that important to me. Non-trophy hunter, I'm comfortable with my penis size, don't need to BS people about "Got 3 150 class and a 170 class buck" WGAF that matters? So no - I've never shot a trophy anything. I'm ok with it. Oddly enough - it's usually other people that take issue. I have done "semi-guided" bear hunts in Canada as a youth which were a blast but BTDT so unlikely to repeat.
The closest I come to a real desire but not enough to spend the money would be an Alaskan hunt of some sort - mostly just to experience the country/landscape.
I'm happy doing what I do now - deer hunt the UP, hope to find a duck hunting opportunity here and there and do some grouse hunting now and continue to support various conservation groups. My son is 22 - grandchildren are likely in the next couple years, I just want to spend time outside with all involved, bloody hands don't matter to me - want others successful.
I've said it often - I don't care if I never shoot another deer in my life but I better be able to go deer hunting every year.
Well stated, Teal. I'm there and can hardly bring myself pop a quail or two for a meal anymore, but I love hunting them with my dogs along, acting goofy-excited. I got to hunt northern Canada, but I never made it to Alaska for a hunt. It's one of my big regerts.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
Stick to what you know- Alaska. You have some credibility there. Not like Phil by a long shot. Africa? - you couldn’t find it on a map.
Hint- ur phoucing retard act don’t work here darling. Just sayin dumb qhunt. #midget
I see one of the Bizarro World Midas twins has polluted this thread and quickly turned it into a pile of excrement.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
You needn't reiterate that besides being a Drooling CLUELESS Dumbfhuqk,that you just also "happen" to be a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit,as you yet again forget about your "heralded" Imaginary Pretend Ignore...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Be sure to keep fueling your "SCARY!" Cow Phobia(s),if only because of how desperately you NEED the delusions. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!......................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Stick to what you know- Alaska. You have some credibility there. Not like Phil by a long shot. Africa? - you couldn’t find it on a map.
Hint- ur phoucing retard act don’t work here darling. Just sayin dumb qhunt. #midget
I see one of the Bizarro World Midas twins has polluted this thread and quickly turned it into a pile of excrement.
Must admit, of our resident Class Clowns, this one will make me laugh from time to time and actually does shoot and hunt. Now, if he’d just learn English……😂
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Wow, what an interesting turn this thread has taken. Hardly surprising...
I saw the aftermath of a buff attack in 97 while chasing one in the Klaserie. A buff suffering a serious infection after a lion attack launched himself off of a dry riverbank on to a game guard who didn't stand a chance. Wrong place, wrong time. Welcome to Africa.
While Buff can take some serious punishment, if everything goes right, it is simple enough to kill. Unfortunately, the likes of Mark Sullivan and others have glorified and exaggerated the hunt to an extent that many clients are needlessly $hit scared of them.
For the record, I've seen more PHs wounded by "dead" Impala and Gemsbuck than Buff. But I don't want to go chasing a wounded buff in the reeds either. That's just asking for a free trip to the hospital... or worse.
Wow, what an interesting turn this thread has taken. Hardly surprising...
I saw the aftermath of a buff attack in 97 while chasing one in the Klaserie. A buff suffering a serious infection after a lion attack launched himself off of a dry riverbank on to a game guard who didn't stand a chance. Wrong place, wrong time. Welcome to Africa.
While Buff can take some serious punishment, if everything goes right, it is simple enough to kill. Unfortunately, the likes of Mark Sullivan and others have glorified and exaggerated the hunt to an extent that many clients are needlessly $hit scared of them.
For the record, I've seen more PHs wounded by "dead" Impala and Gemsbuck than Buff. But I don't want to go chasing a wounded buff in the reeds either. That's just asking for a free trip to the hospital... or worse.
Gemsbuck are tough baztrds and know how to fight. There have been many lion carcasses found impaled on horns of gemsbuck carcasses.
TV has become nothing more than the Petri dish where this country grows its idiots.
In keeping with the buffalo theme….I copied this from Africa Hunting. He is alive.
Last Tuesday Leon DuPlessis of Save Safaris was injured by a cape buffalo.
The exact words from Stephanie, his daughter, are as follows: Tuesday late afternoon he was following a wounded buffalo into thick brush which charged. The first shot did not put it down and it kept coming, catching Leon in the side lifting him in the air then dropping him. He was trapped underneath the buff holding onto its horns.
At this point his tracker Stanford pulled the client into position to shoot the buffalo. The client shot and the buffalo fell on top of Dup but was still very much alive and trying to gore him. Hisa two trackers Stanford and Mazonde bravely pulled the buffalo off him, putting themselves in danger as it was trying to gore them as well and dragged Dup to safety as the client finished it off.
I once shot a mule deer at close range several times. It would not go down. It was in heavy bush and I believed it was wounded by my friend. I wanted to end the chase then and there, so I shot till it dropped. Branches were flying all over, but the deer was hit each time, just not necessarily where I was aiming.
Game sometimes cling to life where by all indicators they should be dead.
Sometimes a good hit on a major artery will cause instant massive internal bleeding. That can throw them into shock. They're dead but don't know it. The blood pressure plummets and the brain shuts down but they just stand there until completely bled out inside. I once shot an elk 4 times in the ribs. The lungs and heart were mush and the far shoulder was broken but it just stood there for a while then slowly sank. All 4 shots were killers.
That said, an animal in shock goes nowhere. A buffalo that's running and charging is NOT in shock, not even close.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Wasn't it Leon's father who was killed by a buff long ago? It is very important to have a rifle that shoots well,IMO that way you can prevent wounding one and have a good chance of stopping one in a charge. I remember one I shot in Makuti,Zimbabwe in 2010.I used a camp rifle, a Ruger which was a very good rifle but the ammo they had on hand was a mix of cheap reloads and a few good Hornady factory.My first shot with the Hornady solid lunged him and he was unable to climb the hill to get away.As he stood there I put about three more shots into him with the cheap reloads but all ended up much higher on his shoulder.After a short while he went down and as we approached I [bleep] it-he looked as menacing as a monster-and was my best trophy too date-really strong.If he charged I don't know where my bullets would hit and if they had the power to penetrate.That said, a couple of double rifles I have are unreliable and shoot a foot wide here and there but sometimes shoot OK.I would not feel confident hunting DG with those even though I have.
Shortly before this discussion degraded beyond my interest and tolerance, I had planned to make a constructive comment as follows:
Somewhere I had read that no 4 legged game can walk or run if either the shoulders or pelvis are shattered. The wounded animal may be able to crawl, but not run to either charge or escape. This has been repeated in many hunting stories. So, as part of my preparation for my first Cape Buffalo hunt, a part of my practice was locating these two bony structures and pulverizing them with a 400 grain Woodleigh solid BEFORE firing my first shot at the Buff target.
As it happened in RSA, my DG PH and trackers led us to the rear of a small group of buff and to within 25 yards of the last of the group. As the PH set up the sticks, I saw that only the pelvis would be visible after my first shot as the buff was grazing almost directly away from me towards some thick cover. My shot placed a 400 grain Woodie just behind the rearmost left rib and the buff responded with a rearward kick of the left hind foot and began to slowly walk away. My next shot shattered the pelvis and brought my buff down with a loud crash that shook the ground. It turned out that my first shot had gone through the heart and though lethal, was not enough to drop the critter to the ground.
My practice and visualization of the pelvis shot made it automatic and easy.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Life Member, Whittington Center, TSRA, DWWC, DRSS Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
On the same hunt in Makuti,on a beautiful morning amongst those beautiful hills we spotted a small herd of buff from the truck.One was nice with huge bosses.After a short stalk we saw them at rest at the bottom of the hill about a couple of hundred yds away.With the open sight Ruger I took careful aim and put a solid right on his spine and he dropped.As we approached he tried to get up and charge but went back down.I then put in a finishing shot.I am starting to miss Africa.I need to get back and find myself again.I will probably attend the next DSC convention and book a hunt for a future date.
Shortly before this discussion degraded beyond my interest and tolerance, I had planned to make a constructive comment as follows:
Somewhere I had read that no 4 legged game can walk or run if either the shoulders or pelvis are shattered. The wounded animal may be able to crawl, but not run to either charge or escape. This has been repeated in many hunting stories. So, as part of my preparation for my first Cape Buffalo hunt, a part of my practice was locating these two bony structures and pulverizing them with a 400 grain Woodleigh solid BEFORE firing my first shot at the Buff target.
As it happened in RSA, my DG PH and trackers led us to the rear of a small group of buff and to within 25 yards of the last of the group. As the PH set up the sticks, I saw that only the pelvis would be visible after my first shot as the buff was grazing almost directly away from me towards some thick cover. My shot placed a 400 grain Woodie just behind the rearmost left rib and the buff responded with a rearward kick of the left hind foot and began to slowly walk away. My next shot shattered the pelvis and brought my buff down with a loud crash that shook the ground. It turned out that my first shot had gone through the heart and though lethal, was not enough to drop the critter to the ground.
Interesting observation, and I'm glad your process worked as expected! The late, great Bob Hagen was an advocate of pelvis shots on elk ("Shoot at the root of the tail," as he put it) and other large ungulates, and others have said the same. I believe Boddington touches on it in his buffalo book, but barely. Other than that, I can't recall any buffalo hunting authority advocating pelvis shots.
I've only tried a pelvis shot on a couple of critters in my whole life, one of which happened to be a Cape buffalo (it was my 3rd shot, he was walking away after taking 2 fatal shots in the heart and lungs). I also happened to miss the bony pelvis on that buff, so the animal did not instantly collapse as he was supposed to.
The funny thing about game animals, DG or otherwise, is that what you visualize as the relevant target anatomy may not be reality. What you think is a solid shot into the pelvis may miss bone entirely, depending on angle etc, and in reality be only a low belly shot. I run into this a lot when I review LE shootings of bad guys, and the postmortem exam and/or autopsy reports afterward. But cops aren't anything like as familiar with anatomy as hunters are, and PH's should be.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
Here's one that wasn't quite precise enough, made by a guy who was very good shot:
This one wasn't quite precise enough to keep the bull from going half-a-mile, and taking a total of 11 "premium" bullets from a .375 H&H, .416 Rigby and .450 Express before the buffalo decided to die.
I have used pelvis shots in certain circumstances, and also seen others try them--including one of my very experienced PH's, who'd seen my first shot on a Botswana bull went into the right spot in the bull's chest. But he hoped to stop the bull before it got into some nearby tall grass--and both 500-grain solids from his .458 Winchester didn't quite hit bone. This didn't matter, because the bull fell within maybe 60 yards after my initial shot with a .375 H&H and a 300-grain Fail Safe bullet.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
…and I’ve gotta somehow envy a man who gets to go out like that - what a thrill.
I mean, Buff charge vs nursing home…😜
Sure beats dying slowly of cancer, right?
Does anyone here know of people that hunt them with a .300 Win Mag?
Yes. I have a late friend that killed one handily with a 300 Win Mag on film. Another friend killed one easily with a 7x57 Mauser. That story was published in a magazine.
…and I’ve gotta somehow envy a man who gets to go out like that - what a thrill.
I mean, Buff charge vs nursing home…😜
Sure beats dying slowly of cancer, right?
Does anyone here know of people that hunt them with a .300 Win Mag?
Yes. I have a late friend that killed one handily with a 300 Win Mag on film. Another friend killed one easily with a 7x57 Mauser. That story was published in a magazine.
Thank you for answering that question for me pathfinder76, because I built this .300 Win Mag as an all-purpose rifle, for hunting Arrica. I am a .30 cal fan.
I find it hard to believe that lest say @ 100 yards broad side that a 300 Min Mag with Nosler 180 grains on a double lung shot would not take one down? I have never been to Africa and was unaware that they tell you what to shoot. There is no way a lion can survive a well-placed 300 Win Mag shot.
There are a lot of other species that this rifle would be good on, the couple here, that a 300 Win Mag could handle easily.
Here's one that wasn't quite precise enough, made by a guy who was very good shot:
This one wasn't quite precise enough to keep the bull from going half-a-mile, and taking a total of 11 "premium" bullets from a .375 H&H, .416 Rigby and .450 Express before the buffalo decided to die.
I have used pelvis shots in certain circumstances, and also seen others try them--including one of my very experienced PH's, who'd seen my first shot on a Botswana bull went into the right spot in the bull's chest. But he hoped to stop the bull before it got into some nearby tall grass--and both 500-grain solids from his .458 Winchester didn't quite hit bone. This didn't matter, because the bull fell within maybe 60 yards after my initial shot with a .375 H&H and a 300-grain Fail Safe bullet.
I find it hard to believe that lest say @ 100 yards broad side that a 300 Min Mag with Nosler 180 grains on a double lung shot would not take one down? I have never been to Africa and was unaware that they tell you what to shoot. There is no way a lion can survive a well-placed 300 Win Mag shot.
There are a lot of other species that this rifle would be good on, the couple here, that a 300 Win Mag could handle easily.
Cape Buffalo with a Bow
Elephant With a bow
There are cartridge restrictions all over the world. Including the country you live in.
Cartridge "restrictions" are VERY loosely enforced over there.There is a Mark Sullivan video with a now deceased Campfire member, Allen Day, handily taking a Cape Buffalo with a 300 mag. The PH I hunted with, had a client take one with a 303 British, but it took eight shots to knock him over. Personally, I would not use a 300. I've only shot two and I used a 416 Rigby.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I’ve seen 2 buffs run away with a .375 heart shot. They both ran well over 100 yards. The hope is that they run away and not at you. It’s illegal to hunt buffalo with a smaller caliber than .375 or 9.3.
All I will say is that there is no way on earth "Black Death" is walking away from a heart shot with a 300 Win Mag, period!
Been a lot of "Black Death" do the same thing out of a 308 FMJ, so what's your point? You go right ahead then, but let me ask you this, how many buffalo have you taken?
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I find it hard to believe that lest say @ 100 yards broad side that a 300 Min Mag with Nosler 180 grains on a double lung shot would not take one down? I have never been to Africa and was unaware that they tell you what to shoot. There is no way a lion can survive a well-placed 300 Win Mag shot.
"I have never been to Africa"
It shows. Let me help you out. I've been to Africa, quite a number of times. I've hunted RSA, Zambia, Tanzania and Cameroon all multiple times. I've seen animals drop in their tracks from good shots and others seemed immune from good shots.
Originally Posted by KillerBee
I find it hard to believe that lest say @ 100 yards broad side that a 300 Min Mag with Nosler 180 grains on a double lung shot would not take one down? There is no way a lion can survive a well-placed 300 Win Mag shot.
Well let's talk about this "survive" thing. I agree, that the shot described above will be fatal to a lion. What this doesn't address is whether or not the lion will be fatal to YOU before he expires?
Let's take the story of someone I've met, PH Peter Chipman. Peter was born and raised in Zambia. He knows the land and the game. Let's get his take on guns and lions:
SCI: What firearms do you carry on hunts and why?
PC: I started out with a .375. That put me in trouble because on July 4,1999 I was charged by a lion that actually did get to me. I shot the lion in the chest. It did not stop him and there was no time for a second shot. I needed a bigger caliber. I gave my .375 to my brother. I bought myself a .458. I worked hard to get the double and got the Woodleigh soft points. The lion incident occurred on a professional hunt video which can be viewed on YouTube.
Originally Posted by RobertRuark
"Use enough gun"
Originally Posted by Phillip Percival
"It's the dead ones that kill you"
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
That's a great response, Jeff. There is another great video with Johann Calitz and another lion charge (he was wounded by some woman) where the lion runs a virtual gaunlet of heavy caliber fire and it's only stopped at the PH's feet after a brain shot from five yards or less.
Good luck with your 300.. (can I hold your wallet?)
Last edited by jorgeI; 10/04/22.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
I’ve seen 2 buffs run away with a .375 heart shot. They both ran well over 100 yards. The hope is that they run away and not at you. It’s illegal to hunt buffalo with a smaller caliber than .375 or 9.3.
Originally Posted by jdollar
I’ve seen 2 buffs run away with a .375 heart shot. They both ran well over 100 yards. The hope is that they run away and not at you. It’s illegal to hunt buffalo with a smaller caliber than .375 or 9.3.
Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by KillerBee
I find it hard to believe that lest say @ 100 yards broad side that a 300 Min Mag with Nosler 180 grains on a double lung shot would not take one down? I have never been to Africa and was unaware that they tell you what to shoot. There is no way a lion can survive a well-placed 300 Win Mag shot.
"I have never been to Africa"
It shows. Let me help you out. I've been to Africa, quite a number of times. I've hunted RSA, Zambia, Tanzania and Cameroon all multiple times. I've seen animals drop in their tracks from good shots and others seemed immune from good shots.
Originally Posted by KillerBee
I find it hard to believe that lest say @ 100 yards broad side that a 300 Min Mag with Nosler 180 grains on a double lung shot would not take one down? There is no way a lion can survive a well-placed 300 Win Mag shot.
Originally Posted by RobertRuark
"Use enough gun"
Originally Posted by Phillip Percival
"It's the dead ones that kill you"
My apologies gentlemen I should have been more precise in my comment, my bad!
What I meant by: "All I will say is that there is no way on earth "Black Death" is walking away from a heart shot with a 300 Win Mag, period!"
Is that the animal would NOT SURVIVE the shot. Can it run away or at you with the adrenalin factor? ABSOLUTELY!!! That is why most people that hunt them have PHs' backing them up, which is certainly a wise decision. Cape Buffalo are called "Black Death for a reason.
I heart shot one very large whitetail with a 30-06 and he took off an made it about 80 yards before he expired, to my complete amazement!
On another occasion I shot a 400 lbs. black bear twice with my shotgun using Federal Express High Shok 3" magnum slugs at 13 yards, he took off at 100 mph, again to my complete amazement! He made it about 60 yards, did he survive NO. When I opened him up, there was nothing left of his lungs, they were liquified, as was his liver from the second shot. And like I said even though there was nothing left of his lungs he bolted out of there with lightning speed.
Did they run away, absolutely! Did they survive ABSOLUTELY NOT.
That is what I meant by, "I find it hard to believe that lets say @ 100 yards broad side that a 300 Min Mag with Nosler 180 grains on a double lung shot would not take one down? There is no way a lion can survive a well-placed 300 Win Mag shot.
Here is a video of Tim Wells killing a Cape Buffalo with a SPEAR. at that distance with my 300 Win Mag, I would have taken a head shot. But to be honest I do not have the B---S or the death wish that Tim has, so that is not something I would ever do.
So, if you can kill a Cape Buffalo with a spear and a bow, nobody can convince me that you cannot kill them handily with a 300 Win Mag. I will bet the farm that many a Cape Buffalo have been killed with both 300 Win Mags, as well as the versatile .30-06 over the years and I know for a fact that many had been killed with bows as well.
My apologies gentlemen I should have been more precise in my comment, by bad!
What I meant by: "All I will say is that there is no way on earth "Black Death" is walking away from a heart shot with a 300 Win Mag, period!"
Is that the animal would NOT SURVIVE the shot.
You are correct! Any of the .300 Magnums with a premium bullet placed in/through the heart will mean curtains for Mbogo. Many have been dispatched by .303 Enfield and 7 x 57 in colonial days, but I don't recommend it!
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
My apologies gentlemen I should have been more precise in my comment, by bad!
What I meant by: "All I will say is that there is no way on earth "Black Death" is walking away from a heart shot with a 300 Win Mag, period!"
Is that the animal would NOT SURVIVE the shot.
You are correct! Any of the .300 Magnums with a premium bullet placed in/through the heart will mean curtains for Mbogo. Many have been dispatched by .303 Enfield and 7 x 57 in colonial days, but I don't recommend it!
One a side note Hatari one of my all-time favorite movies when I was a kid was Hatari! I have always been a big John Wayne fan and Red Buttons was excellent in the movie as well. Elsa Martinelli was great in the movie and a real hottie!
KB, It's a fun movie with outstanding scenery of old East Africa. Momella ranch was owned by Hardy Kruger for about 10± years. Elsa Martinelli was a hottie but it was alwasy Michelle Girodon that caught my eye (and those of the cast). She led a tragic life.
Going back to Peter Chipman getting mauled by the lion, he told me that words can't describe what goes through your head when a big male lion has you in his mouth! "Oh, Chitt!" doesn't begin to cover it. I hope I never know first hand. Best wishes.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
Hi hatari, another fun movie was North to Alaska. If you recall the actress Capucine who was the Love Interest, in the movie. Good actress and another Hottie, she also had a tragic ending, committed Suicide by jumping off of her apartment balcony.
In Alberta Canada where I am from, the government put a moratorium on killing Grizzles years ago, the population is out of control now, and every year someone gets killed, usually a bowhunter.
When I am in Grizz country bow hunting elk or fishing I always have a Mossy 88 Maverick with a 18" barrel strapped to my back loaded with 3 finishing rounds of OO Buckshot and the first two rounds of 3" Mags of Federal Express High Shok Slugs.
I have done a lot of research on how you die during a Grizz attack and based on forensic analysis, you get eaten alive, slowly. I would rather be killed by a shark. I never go into bear country unless I am well armed and prepared for the worst outcome!
Being taken out by a Lion, a Tiger or a Grizz, is the worst possible way to go, IMO!
If I do make it to Africa, these are the rounds I am taking with my 300 Win Mag. Premium for sure and highly effective. ABLR in 180gr. Because my rifle loves them, lots of energy and velocity.
RinB; Good almost evening to you sir, I trust the day was a good one for you and you're well.
Thanks for the thread, it's been educational for the most part on a subject that's interested me for a lot of years now.
My condolences to the family and friends of Mr. De Bruyn who are left behind.
For reference as to my personal connection with the topic, I believe I met the late Bob Fontana at a sheep conference one time in the late '80's. He was killed in Tanzania in 2004 by what was described as an unprovoked charge. They never did find the buffalo which did it so can only speculate as to the cause.
Further back than that, when my family were visiting family friends in Kenya in 1975, I got to know the two boys better, one which was a year older than me and one a year younger.
Though I'd truly lost track of them and they me no doubt, about 20 years back the younger brother was hit by a buffalo which very nearly killed him.
Interestingly when I wrote about the story here on the 'Fire, at that time there was a poster who went by Zambian and when we PM'd, he did it via a sat phone very close to where the attack had happened, knew that brother a wee bit and then knew the other brother as a taxidermist in Lusaka near where he lived.
All that to say sometimes the world seems very small anymore.
Oh, I was present when what was described as a pretty good buffalo was shot on that Kenya trip too, but it died quickly without drama.
Pete, the PH I did my first buffalo hunt with made an excellent point during the hunt. A LOT of buffalo clients are older because they can't afford to go until then. They may have hunted some, but rarely with a rifle that kicks as much as even a minimum buffalo chambering, such as the .375 H&H--and due to hearing so many tales of "unkillable" buffalo they may bring a rifle that kicks a LOT harder. So they don't practice much before they head over.
They're often in not great hiking shape, and all the time they're tracking buffalo over hill and dale, they're thinking about the stories they've heard. As my PH said, "By the time they actually get a shot, they're equally scared of the buffalo and their rifle! It's no wonder quite a few botch the shot."
Interesting observation. I know quite a few hunters that have killed Cape Buffalo from here. People I know very well, many are past their physical prime. The best hunter of all of them all, however was killed by a wounded buff as he was hunting African antelope in 2005. This guy was a relative, an outfitter of some reknown and had a reputation for his Spring Grizzly hunts, which I witnessed at times.I also worked and hunted with him. He used to say" Someday, I am going to get it" . Well, that summer, a wounded buff ( wounded by a poacher) came out of the tall grass and took Bob out. A sad day that continues to bother me. My respects to this family too.
One time I shot at a deer at long range in a cut block on a trail that from my vantage point what looked like grass on both sides of the trail, I was up on a higher elevation.
I was not sure if I hit him but doing the ethical thing, I walked down the logging truck trail and the further down the path I got, the higher and thicker grass became, when I got to the location where the deer was the grass was at least 7' tall and very thick.
I followed his tracks right off of the trail and into the grass for about 5 yards and then saw a huge pile of very fresh Grizz poop, at that point the visibility in all directions was about 1 foot.
I backed out quicky, there are some things that are not worth doing. Meeting a Grizz in that grass would not have been healthy to say the least!
I know the guy that ended up killing the buffalo in question. Backstory on it was two buffs had been fighting, one had gotten his ass ripped open by the other. After the fight, the two men went to put the injured bull down and the victorious bull returned and pinned the one man to a tree, killing him. That bull was subsequently killed by a hunter from Pennsylvania (J.B.) with the deceased man's son by his side.
Life Member Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation Life Member Safari Club International
I think if a broadside shot presented itself at 35 yards, the heart would not be a best choice for Cape Buff. It's not IF they die, it's WHEN. Also, full respect to just how difficult the battle with adrenaline would be.
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
One time I shot at a deer at long range in a cut block on a trail that from my vantage point what looked like grass on both sides of the trail, I was up on a higher elevation.
I was not sure if I hit him but doing the ethical thing, I walked down the logging truck trail and the further down the path I got, the higher and thicker grass became, when I got to the location where the deer was the grass was at least 7' tall and very thick.
I followed his tracks right off of the trail and into the grass for about 5 yards and then saw a huge pile of very fresh Grizz poop, at that point the visibility in all directions was about 1 foot.
I backed out quicky, there are some things that are not worth doing. Meeting a Grizz in that grass would not have been healthy to say the least!
What state is this in KB?
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
My only question is, why do they let bowhunters hunt them with bows? Not that I ever want to do that, because I do not have a Black Death wish! lol
Just got back from the Save last Saturday. 30 y spot & stalk, not no SA ground blind BS.
You're at an advantage with a bow as once you've sneaked up on them, they don't know what hit 'em. We got in close, had a few stare down sessions. He accepted us and once hit, he didn't know what happened. 40 y later he fell, bellowed and died.
I never really was interested in hunting buff. My first one was for lion bait, didn't really care. Second one was an add on to an ele with a double. That was fun getting to within 40 y.
This last hunt we made several stalks before we got busted, some within 15 y and could bear them feeding. The most exciting hunt I've ever had. Shooting stuff with a scoped rifle has lost my interest, especially in NA.
I'll never go back to Africa with a scoped rifle and plan on doing nothing but hunt buff with a bow till I can't walk.
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