Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 450 G&A Short

I’m looking for an intermediate 0.458” cartridge between the 458 Win Mag and the 450 Rigby Rimless, based on the minimally altered 404 Jeffery case and a max COAL length of 3.6”.

Made up a dummy on a slightly shortened 404 J case but looks like the cartridge exists as a wildcat already. So I’m thinking about building a 460 G&A Short on a Winchester Model 70 Classic. I know that the parent case is the 404 Jeffery but I’ve searched for authoritative data on case length, cartridge overall length and ballistic performance (MV Range) but haven’t found it.

Other than an old G&A article by Tom Siatos describing the original 460 G&A in general terms, I haven’t turned up useful data.

Any leads on credible info on the data identified would be greatly appreciated to base a chamber reamer on.

Go here: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...s/17392087/re-460-g-a-short#Post17392087

The 450 G&A is a shortened version of the 460 G&A. It is designed to feed out of a mag box with the length of the 458 Win. Uses a 404 Jeff cartridge slightly blown out. About 2.5” case length. Shoulder is about 17.5 degrees.

Today you can get something pretty close by necking up a 416 Ruger.

The 460 version is close to 375 H&H length both case and overall.
The 450 easily get 2150 with a 500 grain. But a 458 Win will easily do that with currently available powders.

I would get a 458 Win. It is plenty.

...What RinB said

Why wouldn't the .450 G & A easily outperform the .458 Win with same powders and same throating, seating depth and same barrel length? The case holds more.

I am still lost on what the 458 Win and maybe a bit more does that the 416 Remington doesn't?

There is a very extensive discussion of the 458 Win elsewhere.

It will move 500’s at 2100+. That is plenty for anything. When that load fails you on elephant or buffalo then consider something else.

How many buffalo and elephant have you taken?

458 win can easily get 2200+ with a 500 grain and 2230

Why wouldn't the .450 G & A easily outperform the .458 Win with same powders and same throating, seating depth and same barrel length? The case holds more.

If memory serves the 460 G&A is capable of 2400 FOS with 500 grain bullets

If the .450 G & A can do 2200 fps with a 500 grain projectile in a 22" barrel using a std length action (and weighing 10 lbs including scope) , using H4350 at moderate pressure, without compressing the powder at all, it would be a superb cartridge. It takes 105 grains of H4350 in a 25" barrel to get 2300 fps with the .450 Rigby.

I have only taken 2 Cape buffalo (404/375 Ruger) and 3 elephants. The first 2 with a 500 NE 3” and the last with a 404 Jeffery.

How does that affect the discussion?

The last time I loaded my standard chamber 24” barrel 458 Wn Mag and chronographed my AA2230 loads with 500 grain CEB BBW #13, it took 75 grains of that powder to break 2200 fps. Those loads require quite a bit of compression and heavy crimping to make the 3.345” COAL needed to fit in the magazine. The fired cases show pressure signs I interpret at or near the SAAMI max for this cartridge without much wiggle room. Not a good place for a rifle in or near an elephant herd.

The 450 Rigby beats that easily with same bullets and 100 grains RL-17 in a 23” barrel. The cost is a heavier rifle with a magnum action. Adequate performance for the intended quarry, even when things don’t go according to plan.

No flies on either the 458 Win Mag or the 450 Rigby, but IMHO, a 450 G&A in a Win M-70 Classic is a better balanced cartridge/rifle combo performing at lower pressure than the 458 Win Mag and providing large bore punch in a 404 Jeffery sized package.

A 500 grain 0.458” bullet at 2100 fps and a 400 grain 0.423”bullet at 2350 fps will work on African big game. My planned path merely reflects my experience with the cartridges mentioned and limited use of them on African big game. I’m not proposing a recipe that’ll work for all. YMMV.

This is the same article I have that shows the load details of that cartridge. The whole point of its design was to get the stated velocities using stick powder at sane pressures. Ball powders that clumped up from the heat didn't make the cut. That same magazine has a section on the .458 WM that details the problem Jack Lott had with a cape buffalo that was shot by Wally Johnson, with dire results and led to the .450 G&A Short.

I have the original article by Jack Lott from 1959 when he wounded, gut shot, a cape buffalo with a soft,
and then his second shot with a RN FMJ "solid" went squirrely inside the buffalo.
Jack got tossed. Wally Johnson emptied his .375 H&H into the buffalo and finally picked up Jack's .458 WinMag,
off the ground where Jack dropped it while being tossed.
Wally killed the buffalo with a head shot from the .458 WinMag.
Jack continued happily hunting with the .458 WinMag for another decade,
as did Tom Siatos, creator of the .460 G&A.

Trumped-up charges against the .458 WinMag were like Democrap propaganda,
a false narrative to garner favor for new candidates, usurper pet cartridges with new pet names.
Not bad to have more choices, just bad in the lies told.

Take a gander at this reload data for the standard .458 WinMag allowed a COL and a MAP less than or equal to that of the .458 Lott:





Above is from a 24" barrel, Ruger factory No. 1 rifle made in 1980. Standard SAAMI chamber and barrel.
The H. P. White lab data for the .458 Winchester Magnum of late 1955 showed a 25" barrel easily did 2160 fps with 500-gr bullet
with non-compressed HiVel #2 powder, at 50,410 PSI, not CUP.

With my .450 Dakota the preferred load is a North Fork 450-grainer at 2450 fps.
I will grant that it is doing that at lower pressure than the .458 WinMag does.

.458 WM+ loads look like this, on right below,
compared to the 500/450 NE loads on the left, by member gunner500:



Jerry and I collaborated on developing .458 WM+ loads with the 500-gr Trophy Bonded Sledgehammer Solid,
450-gr TSX
and 404-gr Shock Hammer.
He is getting ready now to take his .458 WM+ to Africa, as well as the 500/450 NE H&H Royal DR for nostalgic reasons.
His Tropical Loads for the .458 WM+ are:
500-gr TBSS at ~2300 fps
and
404-gr Shock Hammer at ~2500 fps.

Those 458+ Win Mag loads should work quite well for elephant with monolithic solids and softs for buffalo, of course.

Your Dakota’s ballistics are equivalent to my 450 Rigby Rimless in the Ruger RSM’s 23” barrel using RL-17 (or H-4350) with CEB BBW#13 500 gn Safari Solids. I suspect on a broadside shot this load will shoot through an elephant, especially with a heart shot and one broken shoulder.

Look forward to a report on Jerry’s return. Which country and game does he plan to hunt?

Just a reader of the OP’s intentions. Ken Howell already utilized the 404 Jeffery hull at .458 caliber with his 450 Howell, it will generate about 2,225 fps with 500 grain projectiles.

Reading Finn Aagaard’s opinions from his days as a Kenya PH he stated the following:

“I believe the fad for bad-mouthing the 458 Win Mag is mostly hot air and blaming cartridge/gun for own failures. Apart from some lots of bad ammo, I have never been able to detect any difference in the field, on game, between the 458 Win Mag and 500/450, 465, 470, or even the 500 N.E.”

Good reminder that more is not always more. Thanks

Jerry has admitted to being headed to Limpopo River region.
Specifics beyond that are classified, Cosmic Squirrel Secret.
We'll have to wait for further information when the mission is completed, and he gives the debrief.

Apart from one buffalo that dropped right on the spot because I broke its neck with a 500 grain projectile at a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps, the others when shot through the shoulder with the same load have all run approximately 60 yards and expired completely. The projectiles were all recovered under the far hide after penetrating both shoulders. If I could handle the recoil as well as carry a heavier rifle, I believe a .585 750 grain projectile starting at around 2100 fps would do a better job...but I can't handle that recoil sufficiently to make it a viable alternative. Same argument that I think a 180 grain projectile out of a 30-06 is marginally better on very large creatures at close range than a 150 grain in the .270.